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Hey, Answerman! [2006-09-22]


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Astribulus



Joined: 05 Dec 2005
Posts: 15
PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 11:38 pm Reply with quote
Royal Devil wrote:
Yes but what if it's an anime that takes place outside of Japan or just doesn't have much of a Japanese "feel" to it? The prime example of this is the Hellsing dub. Now here we have a series that takes place primarily in Britain with primarily European characters. So what fits the creator's vision better? The Japanese version or the dub that used actual British actors and other accents to the show that fit the European setting?


Both can be good in their own right. I would still choose to watch the original version. Even though the voices may more accurately reflect the setting, the dub is still a reinterpretation. Again, this doesn't mean it's bad. I just like to go to the source.

The Xenos wrote:
Of course the dumbest argument I've heard is that watching dubs is less inteligent because you are refusing to read. Geez. My reply to that is, if I wanted to read dialouge, I'd go read the manga or novel. That is reading, not watching dialouge flash on a screen (and with fansubs it's timed by fans who have no professional experience).


Which is why I never made that argument. It's dumb.

Still, your reply is a bit dismissive and off target. I don't think anyone ever claimed that they watched fansubs in order to read. The argument (dumb though it may be) is that people who refuse to watch subs are missing a superior production due to intellectual laziness. While this may be true of a minority of people, painting all dub watchers with this broad brush is obviously incorrect. To counter this logically, one could simply state one's reason for enjoying the dub. Of course, since the situation has already devolved to insults this may not achieve anything, but doing so leaves you in the right and allows you to exit the conversation with dignity. Getting in one last shot isn't going to help things.

The Xenos wrote:
Also, as for lip flaps, I think you could argue that it shows that the American animation and dubbing industry is less cheap than the Japanese. You could argue that anime is cheaper for ignoring lip flap (as well as being cheaper animation in a number of other ways). Though to be fair, I'd say it's mainly just a different philosophy towards animation and Japan just doesn't think it's worth the work.


Agreed. The dub script writers seem to pay much more attention to lip flaps in general. This is why I said it was a constraint. They feel the need (and rightly so) to fit the english dialogue with the timing of the animation. Since the original dialogue wasn't designed to fit the english timing, this can lead to some very awkward pauses or other pacing troubles.
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Zalis116
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Joined: 31 Mar 2005
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Location: Kazune City
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 8:33 am Reply with quote
The Xenos wrote:
That is reading, not watching dialouge flash on a screen (and with fansubs it's timed by fans who have no professional experience).
True, they don't have "professional experience" in timing, but that doesn't mean a whole lot. Many of the better fansub groups focus on "scene-timing," which means removing lines of dialogue in synch with scene breaks, so that you don't have a character's lines appearing onscreen after a cut to another character or something different entirely. Many DVDs, on the other hand, have issues with this, where lines will linger on after cuts to, say, the outside of a school, or even an entirely different situation. In some cases, it's obvious that they decided, "Eh, who cares if Character A is done talking, let's just leave the line on for a few seconds of silence before Character B starts his line." I've seen timing issues stand out a bit more in Geneon and Funimation releases, compared to other companies' products.
Also, many people say that reading subtitles damages the "value" of a line, because we can read something before a character actually says it, thus skewing the comedic or dramatic timing. I've never seen DVDs do this, but some fansubs will display only part of a line, and then "fill in" the big joke or dramatic revelation as the character says it.
Besides, in all the fansubs I've ever seen, I've never seen a timing error as bad as this one from DVD 2 of NieA_7, Episode 5:

(There's no dialogue in that scene, let alone anything close to what that subtitle reads--that line actually appears at the end of the preview in that episode.) I'm not saying that fansubs are universally better, but they aren't incompetent, and the pros aren't perfect either.
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Keonyn
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Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 5567
Location: Coon Rapids, MN
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 4:08 pm Reply with quote
I swear, everything these days becomes a debate on fansubs and licensed releases. This horse is so dead it's become glue, been used in a classroom, thrown away, decomposed and entered the ground and gone back in to the ecosystem until it found its way in to grass which was eaten by yet another horse and the process was then repeated about 50 or more times until we're now back on the topic beating horse number 53 or so.
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hikaru004



Joined: 15 Mar 2004
Posts: 2306
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 8:13 pm Reply with quote
Keonyn wrote:
I swear, everything these days becomes a debate on fansubs and licensed releases.


But, they didn't do it within 6 posts. Wink

You know...like "Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon". Laughing
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sptrashcan



Joined: 25 Sep 2006
Posts: 1
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 8:39 pm Reply with quote
Well, as far as my opinion goes on dub vs. sub...

Screw it, I'd rather talk about cool fights. And in my opinion, while Hellsing is certainly no slouch in that department, Gunnm (aka Battle Angel Alita) is the undisputable king of wall-to-wall cool fights - not for any single battle, although there are some highlights, but because Kishiro does such a good job of making every fight different, interesting, and important. My personal favorites are:
spoiler[
- Alita versus Jashugan, for the glorious imagery as Jashugan, in his dying moment, throws one last unstoppable blow.
- Sechs versus the Starship Cult, for letting a second banana - and a defeated-enemy-turned-ally at that - really shine for a change.
- Alita versus Caerula Sanguis, for the Eight Gate Death Array, and teaching me the meaning of the phrase "quoin of vantage."
]

I'd also like to throw props to Samurai Champloo for spoiler[Mugen's knock-down drag-out no-holds-barred fight with the Psycho Brothers Three.] I mean, damn.

...I wish I'd gotten here a bit earlier. Who's going to plow through 10 pages of dub/sub wars to read this?
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fighterholic



Joined: 28 Sep 2005
Posts: 9193
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:23 am Reply with quote
I see it as pointless to take sides on whether dubs or subs is better, because you will always get into an argument with somebody and this issue never gets resolved, and almost always gets locked. I'd say to watch it in the format that you like the most, and stop comparing when it is pointless.
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Kilgamayan



Joined: 25 Jul 2006
Posts: 275
Location: Location, Location.
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:27 am Reply with quote
fighterholic wrote:
I see it as pointless to take sides on every single hot button issue in the online anime community ever, because you will always get into an argument with somebody and this issue never gets resolved, and almost always gets locked. I'd say to do what you like the most, and stop comparing when it is pointless.


I think this is what you meant.
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fighterholic



Joined: 28 Sep 2005
Posts: 9193
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:29 am Reply with quote
Kilgamayan wrote:
I think this is what you meant.

Why thank you. It seems to me these days though, that this is what Answerman seems to be about these days, which really makes me not want to read every single post, but somehow I've got to see if I can point something out to somebody.
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RezSav



Joined: 06 Jun 2004
Posts: 542
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:35 am Reply with quote
I agree, why is it such a big deal that a few clips made it into that god awful show? Why isn't anyone talking about the Degrassi episode, that just so happened to air tonight on The-N, where Marco is wearing a shirt that has Speed Racer's mug on it?
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Zalis116
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Joined: 31 Mar 2005
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Location: Kazune City
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 6:18 am Reply with quote
Keonyn wrote:
I swear, everything these days becomes a debate on fansubs and licensed releases. This horse is so dead it's become glue, been used in a classroom, thrown away, decomposed and entered the ground and gone back in to the ecosystem until it found its way in to grass which was eaten by yet another horse and the process was then repeated about 50 or more times until we're now back on the topic beating horse number 53 or so.
Ah, why the need to write all that, when you could put this to use? Smile I didn't re-check this thread with the intent to restart that debate yet again, but hey, that's what I do...if anyone takes cheap shots at either side (fansubs or DVDs), I'll be there to retaliate, with evidence...
So, apologies, I don't intend on debating that any more.
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marcpatt14



Joined: 19 Sep 2006
Posts: 1
PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 5:00 pm Reply with quote
You know what? The world would be better off if obsessive anime-niacs didn't feel the need to reopen the subs vs. dubs debate EVERY 30 SECONDS!!! If you like dubs better or subs better that's fine, but KEEP IT TO YOURSELF!!!

Ahhh, much better...

As for me I like them equally just as long as the dub/sub wasn't done by 3-year-olds.
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