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NEWS: JAST USA: Licensing Starry Sky Games Is Unlikely

Shenl742 wrote:

Hmm, I remember a guy from XSeed saying once that for some reason voice actor contracts for games in Japan can be extremely draconian, which is why getting audio in them can be an issue. Guess stuff like this can also be a reason.

Not only that, sometime Japanese video game (and anime) OSTs get cut out from overseas release (this happen to several Tales game). Yeah Japan tend to be overpricey and they don't play fair when it comes to releasing their product overseas.

Is that the reason why they didn't use the original themes for Symphonia and Abyss? I was wondering why they were able to use Bonnie Pink's song (with vocals) in Tales of Vesperia as opposed to the completely different instrumental other than Starry Sky in Symphonia and the karaoke version of the Bump song in Abyss.

Yeah as I said, Japanese industry don't play fair and this is why other Asian countries (South Korea and Taiwan) with their pop culture export are winning more fans around the world then Japan. At least those countries don't put draconian restriction unlike Japan.

Welp. I'm glad I don't really play otome games, then. But this is still sad news for visual novel fans as a whole. At least those are finally starting to get some footing here.

Also hey Peter Payne maybe you should try licensing some yuri games. Just a thought.

mdo7 wrote:

Shenl742 wrote: Hmm, I remember a guy from XSeed saying once that for some reason voice actor contracts for games in Japan can be extremely draconian, which is why getting audio in them can be an issue. Guess stuff like this can also be a reason. Not only that, sometime Japanese video game (and anime) OSTs get cut out from overseas release (this happen to several Tales game). Yeah Japan tend to be overpricey and they don't play fair when it comes to releasing their product overseas.

Is that the reason why they didn't use the original themes for Symphonia and Abyss? I was wondering why they were able to use Bonnie Pink's song (with vocals) in Tales of Vesperia as opposed to the completely different instrumental other than Starry Sky in Symphonia and the karaoke version of the Bump song in Abyss.

Someone on here explained to me that this was the reason Yoko Takahashi's themes for Project x Zone weren't released internationally.

wonderwomanhero wrote:

Is that the reason why they didn't use the original themes for Symphonia and Abyss? I was wondering why they were able to use Bonnie Pink's song (with vocals) in Tales of Vesperia as opposed to the completely different instrumental other than Starry Sky in Symphonia and the karaoke version of the Bump song in Abyss.

It's a matter of how much you're willing to spend on rights negotiation (requires time, legal resources, and connections) and licensing. On a shoestring budget, it's far easier to say "Screw this!" and replace a song with something else. This was quite common when localizing PSOne era Japanese RPGs, which were regarded as low potential titles.

On the other hand, if your market is adequately large with expectations of strong sales, the expense might be justified. For whatever reason, Namco Hometek didn't want to spend much during the PS2 era. Not only did they drop songs, but localization budgets were sometimes too small to dub every part of a game in English.

mdo7 wrote:

Yeah as I said, Japanese industry don't play fair and this is why other Asian countries (South Korea and Taiwan) with their pop culture export are winning more fans around the world then Japan. At least those countries don't put draconian restriction unlike Japan.

It depends on one's perspective. Japanese industry conventions give greater rights to agencies and independent voice actors (and famous ones exercise those rights well), so they're more equitable in that regard.

Naturally, each group/individual wants to control and maximize the value of their work, which poses some problems (whether logistic or financial) for licensing.

Well how does it work, because I can't find any article on the Behind the scene for Japanese entertainment industry and how it work. So do they play fair or can there be conflict between agency and industry that makes it hard to license products outside of Japan. So what is it that makes Japanese entertainment not wanting to play fair on the international level? Do Japanese entertainment business not get along really well even in Japan?

mdo7 wrote:

Well how does it work, because I can't find any article on the Behind the scene for Japanese entertainment industry and how it work. So do they play fair or can there be conflict between agency and industry that makes it hard to license products outside of Japan. So what is it that makes Japanese entertainment not wanting to play fair on the international level? Do Japanese entertainment business not get along really well even in Japan?

The hurdle is the self-interest of each person or group who has some ownership in the product. It's not that the industry is against licensing content outside Japan, but to do so, a company must make agreeable arrangements with the various "stakeholders".

Voiceover licensing would be simple if the publisher had total control over how recordings are used. They pay a single fee for the work, make as much use of it as they want, and nobody complains.

However, the Japanese custom is that every individual gets some ownership over his or her lines (or acting performance, in the case of TV dramas). If they're represented by an agency, then the agency owns those rights. This means that the agency or individual (in the case of freelance talent) has the power to demand certain conditions, such as a minimum fee when lines are reused in a related work/localized export.

Now we come to self-interest. For argument's sake, let's say that "Actress A" normally charges $100 for her lines to be licensed. That's the going rate that companies are willing to pay, whether they're a console game publisher in America, a local company in Japan, or a film distributor in Hong Kong. While she might be cool with her lines being reused in a French PC game port, she compromises her own value and bargaining power if people discover that she charges someone less. Consequently, software distributors in France must meet her $100 price tag if they want her lines.

Licensing is quite possible if a market is large enough to justify the expense. For instance, Japanese dramas are broadcast in Taiwan/Hong Kong/Singapore/etc where distributors can afford to meet actor/agency conditions. However, small companies exploring very niche or untapped markets would run into problems.

mdo7, every now and then, I see your views on Korea and Tawian/China (mostly Korea, though) being reported as a form of soapboxing. Personally, I hardly spend anytime in Talkback to read everything everyone says (aside from reports). But I see enough reports from various users that seem to get irked by the way you always use Korea as your go-to example as the "premier entertainment capital and business model of Asia," so to speak. It's fine and dandy that you possess the knowledge of said country's industry to debate about things, but reports have also stated occasional grievances about your knowledge de-railing topics.

So if you could please be a little less Korea-centric (or at least no so "in-your-face" about it), it would be appreciated. Thanks.

I have to ask: How do you know all this stuff, do you work for the Japanese entertainment industry or something?

Now this last part is interesting, because I don't know if you know this. When Korean dramas got popular outside of Asia, other Asian countries like Taiwan, Mainland China, and Singapore started to put English subtitles on their dramas and export them to non-Asian countries to "cash in/ride on" on the drama fad that K-dramas created. Like for example, in Latin America, Korean dramas are very popular in that area. Because of that, Taiwan exported several of their dramas where it got dubbed in Spanish and shown. I mean Taiwan definitely cashed in on the drama fad in South America when Japan didn't. I mean does Japan know they can get more money from not only Asia but also South America, USA, Middle East, and Eastern Europe (where K-dramas are very popular in those area). I mean if Japan know there are audiences for dramas including J-dramas in areas outside of Asia, then why didn't Japan export their dramas to South America, Middle East, and Eastern Europe to cash in/ride on the drama fad their Korean counterpart created? How come I see less then 10 J-dramas on streaming sites (Crunchyroll, Viki, Dramafever) when those same streaming sites have over 1,000+ K-dramas and 55+ Taiwanese/Chinese-language dramas. I mean people who watch K-dramas will also end up watching other Asian dramas so there maybe a big audiences outside of Asia for people to enjoy J-dramas, why didn't Japan export J-dramas in large numbers if there is big audiences for J-dramas since people are watching K-dramas and other Asian dramas? Again, I think Japan is either xenophobic or this is another example of Galapagos Syndrome when it comes to exporting their dramas outside of Japan and Asia. I hope you can give some good explanation.

No, I just heard an explanation, as well as some licensing stories, through people who worked for MangaGamer, and Atlus USA. On one particular project, the inability to add Japanese voices boiled down to a single voice actress (playing a key role) who wouldn't bend in terms of her minimum fee.

mdo7 wrote:

I have to ask: How do you know all this stuff, do you work for the Japanese entertainment industry or something?

No, I just heard an explanation, as well as some licensing stories, through people who worked for MangaGamer, and Atlus USA. On one particular project, the inability to add Japanese voices boiled down to a single voice actress (playing a key role) who wouldn't bend in terms of her minimum fee.

TBH, I don't know too much about how the Korean TV industry works. I would guess that the contracts with Korean performers give them less leverage, plus there may be less protectionism in terms of keeping domestic value high.

Yeah I've heard this multiple times too. A lot of the times you can't get the Japanese audio track in a game unless every single cast member gives you an OK.

...and apparently some actors actually have clauses in their contracts that basically say "If this game is brought overseas, your voice is not allowed to be used in that version".