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The X Button - Costume Changes


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Stealth00



Joined: 18 Feb 2013
Posts: 65
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 8:48 pm Reply with quote
ActionJacksin wrote:

Yes, it certainly is. The game is already finished. The costumes and the character designs are what they are. We all know what the finished game in Japan is like. Unless this is a situation like say, Kite, where Yasuomi Umetsu explicitly stated he intended for his work to be less sexually explicit than what was produced, then this would be understandable. But as far as we know, this here is certainly censorship by a corporate entity and made to appeal to certain moral inclinations of those who more than likely weren't interested in the game in first place. Again, it's similar to how some of the violent, overtly sexual pulp like Overfiend or Violence Jack had to be cut under guidance from the BBFC because the populace at large would have been potentially offended, even though they were probably never interested in watching trashy Japanese cartoons in the first place.


There is a huge difference between some outside committee mandating changes and the company releasing a title voluntarily doing so because reasons. As I stated in my previous post, these are separate products and the English version is not finished at the same time as the Japanese. If both versions had released simultaneously, and ours still had costume changes, what would your response be?

Quote:
When should they have to clarify that we are in fact getting the uncut version of their product? Haven't we gotten to the point where we should expect a product to come out here more or less true to its original release? Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't we gotten things like the Hyperdimension Neptunia games here unscathed? The fact is just when a niche of fans finally are getting games in manner they were intended to be seen, suddenly we should go back to covering up bits of sexually because a populace at large who we aren't even sure will be interested could be frightened by a game that, again, has only a niche audience who have been anticipating it from the beginning.

Simply put, I don't see why we are going back to this form of censorship that was considered passe by the end of the 90s. I'd like to see the moral outrage that would have been caused by the Siren's naked bottom in Final Fantasy VI.


We have gotten different cover art for games since the beginning of time. As I alluded to, and someone else implicitly stated, there are ALWAYS differences because of translation in any game which features a lot of text.

Different companies handle things differently. I just don't see the point of screaming bloody murder when the changes were likely made or authorized by the Japanese themselves, and for better or worse, it is their decision to make.
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TrailOfDead



Joined: 09 Aug 2012
Posts: 198
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:24 pm Reply with quote
Stealth00 wrote:
Different companies handle things differently. I just don't see the point of screaming bloody murder when the changes were likely made or authorized by the Japanese themselves, and for better or worse, it is their decision to make.


that is what fandom is about: acting like you've been personally wronged when a total stranger's creative and business decisions result in a product that is not what you expected/hoped for
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Kakugo



Joined: 29 Nov 2007
Posts: 163
PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 12:47 am Reply with quote
ActionJacksin wrote:
But as far as we know, this here is certainly censorship by a corporate entity and made to appeal to certain moral inclinations of those who more than likely weren't interested in the game in first place.


And that's the part that always frustrated me about these knee-jerk internal edits; not one sale on this game would have been lost if the big-headed characters were allowed to wear butt floss and bondage belts, and the odds of it becoming a controversial debacle are slim to none these days anyway. If anything we've already had the controversy anyway.

This is especially obvious in Monster Monpiece. Card battle games aren't exactly a rarity in Japan, and the whole gimmick here are the barely-clothed vaguely-mythological lolis. That's not a single optional outfit, or a single scene that could otherwise push the rating up - it's literally the whole point of the title! That's not a judgment, just a fact: Anyone who's willing to play Monster Monpiece is either into, or okay with, the various undressed monster girls. Censoring them only works against the sole target demographic who'd give it the time of day in the first place.

Either you've already made peace with the ridiculous design aesthetics in these sorts of games, or you were never the target demographic to begin with. Changing it after the fact seems to be missing the forest for the trees.


Quote:
Again, it's similar to how some of the violent, overtly sexual pulp like Overfiend or Violence Jack had to be cut under guidance from the BBFC because the populace at large would have been potentially offended, even though they were probably never interested in watching trashy Japanese cartoons in the first place.


Huh. Ironic choices, as both Violence Jack: Evil Town, and Legend of the Overfiend were given edited releases in Japan... but at least those who wanted the hardcore versions still had the option to see them. Which isn't exactly an option for Bravely Default in Western markets,


Quote:
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't we gotten things like the Hyperdimension Neptunia games here unscathed?


Uncensored, yes. Well, I guess they cut an SD rageface in the first game, but that could have been a mistake? I can't think of why they'd bother removing this: http://youtu.be/oxolx3358vQ?t=48s.
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Gon*Gon



Joined: 29 Sep 2011
Posts: 679
PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 12:49 am Reply with quote
Either I missed it or people seriously missed one teeny tiny thing wrong here. Even if you do agree with blatant censorship.

The characters had their outfits censored because westerners are intimidated by characters who are under 18. Normally they could go about this in two ways.

They could cover them up like they just did. Or they could raise their age...like they just did.


See the problem here? If they covered them up so god-fearing men are protected from the sight of some more skin, there is no need to fear the characters being below 18. If the characters have their ages upped(without their behaviour modified to reflect that...), then there was no need to cover them up. Square Enix, did both.
Juno016 wrote:


Talking about Fire Emblem, how the heck did Nowi get through the censors if Nintendo felt the need to censor Bravely Default?

http://www.fireemblemwod.net/fe13/img/nowi.jpg

Thats significantly more sexual then anything in Bravely Default


Fire Emblem's Nowi was a funny case. They did try to "censor" here, but said censorship just made Nowi WAY more risque than simply a promiscuous loli.

In a conversation your character have with the daughter you have with Nowi...

Japanese: "Hey dad, you only married mom because you like little girls don't you?" Wink

English: "Hey dad, you only married mom because you knocked her up didn't you?" Wink

See that? 100% more risque yet somehow deemed more acceptable. Rolling Eyes

While the english voice doesn't sound nearly as cute, I disagree that it's their attempt to make her appear less childlike and more because western VA's are simply incapable of doing cute female voices as proven by several anime dubs.



See that? This is a case where I am particularly impressed by localization team's effort. Unlike other instances, the localization team only had one of their balls cut off (they attempted censorship), but they still had one intact (they did everything they can to preserve her scandalous nature without covering up and other crap).

Nintendo brought over a game that sold like a monster. People who like Nowi as they 1000 year old loli got exactly what they want. People who are bothered by fictional characters can imply choose to romance other characters. Everybody wins unlike in Bravely Default.
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Rahxephon91



Joined: 08 Jun 2003
Posts: 1859
Location: Park Forest IL.
PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 12:59 am Reply with quote
Quote:
They could cover them up like they just did. Or they could raise their age...like they just did.


See the problem here? If they covered them up so god-fearing men are protected from the sight of some more skin, there is no need to fear the characters being below 18. If the characters have their ages upped(without their behaviour modified to reflect that...), then there was no need to cover them up. Square Enix, did both.
You're kind is always so quick to pull the "people aginst this are afraid of sex" card. Except, we're not, we just don't like sex with little girls. We aren't prudes.

That said, yes I did think of this. I don't know why they didn't do it since other companies do it all the time. Such as in DoA. I think Kasumi was younger in the Japanese games.

But I'd assume it's because it's Nintendo and because the characters look a certain way. They do look like little cartoon girls because of the chibi art style and maybe Nintendo just decided to play it really safe.
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Shippoyasha



Joined: 28 Aug 2007
Posts: 459
PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 2:50 am Reply with quote
"Shrug and grudgingly accept censorship"? Really? Seriously? REALLY?

I just find the suggestion to be ridiculous considering I have never found censorship to be appropriate, anywhere. As it stands, the western world has a puritanical, outright prudish 'general media' sensibility right now. Funny how those who either is indifferent to the sexual content or even like it are castigated as perverts and sickos and laughed at. What a sorry state that is.

When even clothed characters are supposedly too much to handle, I think there's a serious problem with the demonization of sex and sexual media. I have an issue with that too, in Japan as well, where people who would NEVER think about consuming anime or game content are the ones passing laws on what the creatives are to do.

The entire idea of creators 'running amok' and destroying 'fragile childrens' minds' and all these slippery slope talk is just typical fear mongering 101. Not to mention, where are the freaking parents and guardians in teaching their kids proper morals and teach them that games/manga/anime is pure escapism? Where's their input from what kind of stuff they allow their children to enjoy depending on their maturity level? Entertainment media is NOT a nanny!
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