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NEWS: Idea Factory Discusses Censoring in Western Monster Monpiece


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Animehermit



Joined: 05 Aug 2007
Posts: 964
Location: The Argama
PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 6:53 pm Reply with quote
I like how the argument is that Japanese games aren't that violent when I just played a Japanese game where you can literally cut people open and rip out their spines for the juices.
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Rahxephon91



Joined: 08 Jun 2003
Posts: 1859
Location: Park Forest IL.
PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 6:53 pm Reply with quote
animehermit wrote:
I like how the argument is that Japanese games aren't that violent when I just played a Japanese game where you can literally cut people open and rip out their spines for the juices.
But thier robots, so it's different.
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Animehermit



Joined: 05 Aug 2007
Posts: 964
Location: The Argama
PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 6:56 pm Reply with quote
Rahxephon91 wrote:
But thier robots, so it's different.


Cyborgs, actually. but they still bleed. There's a collectible where you have to try and cut off their left hands. The game gives you bonus points for how many parts you cut stuff into.
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Rahxephon91



Joined: 08 Jun 2003
Posts: 1859
Location: Park Forest IL.
PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 7:05 pm Reply with quote
animehermit wrote:
Rahxephon91 wrote:
But thier robots, so it's different.


Cyborgs, actually. but they still bleed. There's a collectible where you have to try and cut off their left hands. The game gives you bonus points for how many parts you cut stuff into.
It was a joke about how the intent is still that you're slicing up people, even if there is an excuse.

To be fair, the game does try to paint this as being bad and Raiden being a killer at some point.
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Animehermit



Joined: 05 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 7:07 pm Reply with quote
Hard to tell sometimes, but yeah, I get ya.
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consignia



Joined: 06 Jul 2011
Posts: 392
PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 7:14 pm Reply with quote
Wasn't Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance somewhat censored in Japan anyway? It renders the point a little moot.
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Animehermit



Joined: 05 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 7:20 pm Reply with quote
Changed the color of the blood to white. You still cut up cyborgs (which the game points out are actual real people) and rip out their spines.
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partysmores



Joined: 23 Oct 2011
Posts: 284
PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 9:41 pm Reply with quote
Predictions for other countries:

Australia: M edited, MA15+ uncut

Banned in New Zealand.
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Guile



Joined: 18 Jun 2013
Posts: 595
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 2:18 am Reply with quote
Rahxephon91 wrote:
Yakuza the extremely violent series where you bash people's heads in to walls and do other intensely violent things to people in graphic detail. But it's ok because you don't kill people.


That is actually the exact reason. You are essentially comparing cartoon violence to realistic violence. In Yakuza you may do super moves of throwing enemies into the air and slamming them into the ground, but then they get up when the battle ends and walk off like nothing happened. It plays out essentially like a fighting game such as Street Fighter, or any RPG where monsters fade away after they are defeated. Bugs Bunny does not have the same style of violence as Saving Private Ryan does. If you can not tell the difference between the two styles, then nothing I or anyone else can say is going to change your mind. CERO is able to tell the difference between the two styles to judge which games get a D or a Z rating.

mdo7 wrote:
See that is an example of hypocrisy and pro-Asian supremacy Guile, complain about how Japanese games get censored, but never complain when American games get censored in the US. Do you have a favorite American game, what if your favorite American game got heavily censored in Japan?


That is not hypocrisy, and I suggest you stop misusing that word. Why would Americans complain about the actions of a country they do not live in? They will obviously care about what goes on in their own country because they live there and it affects them. What Japan does to American games is irrelevant to them.

For your question, I would not care as I am not playing the Japanese version. If Japan cares enough about an American game being censored, they can complain and boycott it themselves if they choose to. It is not my battle to fight for them. Though given how few American games are popular in Japan to begin with, and the ones that are are still bought regardless of any censorship that is thrust upon them, then it seems like a moot point in the end.
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Polycell



Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Posts: 4623
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 2:55 am Reply with quote
Wow - I wasn't expecting to see mdo7 and zeebach succeed in hijacking this thread for their irrelevant soapboxing so damn well when I went to bed.

Back to the point I was making before all this pointless bullshit, it seems IdeaFactory's released a subsequent statement making it clear the was given an M of the ESRB's own accord.
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enurtsol



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 14761
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 5:29 am Reply with quote
Guile wrote:

For your question, I would not care as I am not playing the Japanese version. If Japan cares enough about an American game being censored, they can complain and boycott it themselves if they choose to. It is not my battle to fight for them.


Reminds us of some famous "not my battle" words: Smile

  • First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Socialist.
    Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
    Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Jew.
    Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me.


When J-developers see that "edits" are not a big deal in their home turf, they'd carry that thinking over when they port their games outside Japan.


Guile wrote:

Though given how few American games are popular in Japan to begin with, and the ones that are are still bought regardless of any censorship that is thrust upon them, then it seems like a moot point in the end.


Though the trend is Western games are becoming more popular in Japan. Western console games used to get a bad rap in Japan due to bad games from the fall of Atari in the 80's to the 90's when Western developers focused on PC gaming instead. But that's been changing in recent years.
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Rahxephon91



Joined: 08 Jun 2003
Posts: 1859
Location: Park Forest IL.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 6:31 am Reply with quote
Quote:
That is actually the exact reason. You are essentially comparing cartoon violence to realistic violence. In Yakuza you may do super moves of throwing enemies into the air and slamming them into the ground, but then they get up when the battle ends and walk off like nothing happened. It plays out essentially like a fighting game such as Street Fighter, or any RPG where monsters fade away after they are defeated. Bugs Bunny does not have the same style of violence as Saving Private Ryan does. If you can not tell the difference between the two styles, then nothing I or anyone else can say is going to change your mind. CERO is able to tell the difference between the two styles to judge which games get a D or a Z rating.
But you haven't said anything. I'd buy this reasoning except for the fact that it's just a crappy cop out. Yakuza does not take place in a cartoon world. Things do not look cartoony. Things are depicted very realistically and in graphic detail. The only thing that is cartoony is sometimes the more over the top special attacks like the Soejima gif, but other then that nothing looks "cartoony" at all. It is such a cop out it is what it is to say that "oh the violence is cartoony so it's ok, unlike GTA which is also over the top".

GTA takes place in a catoony world then, where crimes can easily be committed, characters exaggerated, and the level of violence unrealistic.

You're bugs bunny analogy is really quite crappy because the two comparisons are on such complete opposite sides. Bugs Bunny is a cartoon bunny who does things that defy law and basically out of thin air. His world is fake. Yakuza is not really on an opposite spectruem compared to GTA. They both depict a realistic world that goes over the top. They both are only cartoony in how they do "unrealistic things" with realistic skins. The Yakuza games do not take place in a fake world, they strive to present a very realistic world. They are in no way trying to be cartoony. It's a lame excuse "that it dosen't kill people" even though it does not attempt to stop from showing bloody moves in detail. In fact it's quite a negative, because it breaks the reality the games try to make.

But even then it dosen't change you're criticism on western games that GTA and whatnot glorify the violence. How does Yakuza not glorify it's violence? It presents characters that are supposed to be extremely noble and yet also very violent. Then it dosen't deal with those consequences because it takes a cheap cop out.

What you're basically doing here is trying to damn one game for it's equally over the top violence because it dosen't cop out in the end. While praising another that has an almost equal amount of violence, without any consequence and then avoiding the fact that it glorifies the same violence.

Quote:
I think the difference is games like Call of Duty and Grand Theft Auto glorify their violence.

See that's the sticking point and now you want to use the Creo rating for GTA to show that it's worse. Ok fine. GTA has worse levels of violence. Though at this point I'm not sure why we'd even be arguing about which one's worse sense the point is they both have graphic violence anyway. But fine you're right.

Call of Duty has a D rating. Tons of killing. Some rating as a Yakuza game. Probably the same level of violence too. You want to make the argument that it's American games that glorify thier violence. I'm still waiting to see how that is untrue for Japanese games? This talk about which one is more violent blah blah is quite pointless, when that wasn't even the issue. The issue is Japanese games are plenty violent and do the same thing.


Last edited by Rahxephon91 on Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:54 am; edited 2 times in total
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Polycell



Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Posts: 4623
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 1:36 pm Reply with quote
This whole time we have been discussing exactly one company's handling of one game outside of Japan. What you're bitching about isn't even remotely relevant.
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Yuno07



Joined: 12 Jan 2014
Posts: 43
Location: Sacramento
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:41 am Reply with quote
Rahxephon91 wrote:
And again you make no arguments for your views and points. So I'm not sure why you even reply to me if you're just going to cut down the posts, ignore thier points, and just make a wild accusation.


I did make my opinions and points on the subject known. You just chose to dismiss them (why am I not surprised).

Quote:
I and others have explained why we find the pictures bad and why the "it's fictional excuse dosent work. Others who aren't you have explained why they don't agree.


Not really. All I got from your comments is that "These pictures don't jive with my set of arbitrary morals, so no matter what anyone says they are wrong and the people who consume them are wrong."

Quote:

I have strayed away from calling people creeps, but I've explained how easy it is to come to that conclusion. And if you botherd to read instead of being a dismissive wanker who can't even botherd to back what they are saying, you'd see I even apologized for any creep instance.

Basically, you have no intrests in talking about this, you just want to fling crap then cry about it. So just stop posting.


Nothing but insult throwing and rhetoric (which does nothing strengthen your "argument" by the way).
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nargun



Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 924
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:50 am Reply with quote
enurtsol wrote:
When J-developers see that "edits" are not a big deal in their home turf, they'd carry that thinking over when they port their games outside Japan.


It seems like your opposition to censorship is such that you'd ban people from changing the game in different countries if you were given that authority.
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