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The X Button - Kickstarting Points


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Levitz9



Joined: 06 Feb 2007
Posts: 1022
Location: Puerto Rico
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:28 am Reply with quote
fuuma_monou wrote:
I remember reading a short article in a Seventeen back-issue from the early eighties about how video games were a great opportunity for women and girls as both players and developers. I think the same issue also had a piece about the Equal Rights Amendment.


...Wow. Considering the current state of the industry, that wide-eyed idealism and hopefulness just tugs at my heartstrings. Sure, the '80s gave us "Phoenix" Rei and Phantasy Star, the first JRPG to star a woman, but...

... yeah, man, hindsight's a doozy.
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Rahxephon91



Joined: 08 Jun 2003
Posts: 1859
Location: Park Forest IL.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 12:35 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Here

That says "cut ties with western developers". That dosen't say cut ties with the west. Learn to make you're statements. Those are two different things. One suggest the company will stop making games with the west in mind where a good portion of it's internally developed games suggest otherwise. The other says they won't be outsourcing games anymore which they shouldn't. It hasn't worked completely. You tried to suggest the former not the later.
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Here Capcom has 150 million in the bank as of last year. That is small change for what games cost now, let alone keeping a company running.
Go to the actual source of the article

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-09-10-capcom-looks-towards-big-changes-after-difficult-fy13

Even with those difficulties they still had higher profits. Since then thier releases have mostly done great. Lets lay off the "capcom dying" stuff until we get a little more updates.
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Here The cancellation of Universe and Legends 3 helped him move. He let himself and the fans down. According to him.
How does this dispute what I said? He left because he wanted to do his own thing. Where does it say he left Capcom because they canceled Mega MAn? That game was canceled a year later after he left.

Inafune has been saying the same thing about Japan and then it's even more funny that his games made after leaving or anything but original. One is a MH clone and the other a game riding on nostalgia.

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Mikami suffered from remakes like what Capcom is doing now.
Where are all these Capcom remakes? What remakes was Mikami forced to work on? He made one and he seemingly wanted to make that remake. He left because Clover was closed and he just wanted to do something else.

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Opinions are great but sales are all that count.
So then Capcom is doing fine? These games have sold well. Resident Evil 5 sold great. 6 has sold good, just not meant high expectations. Street Fighter 4 sold good. DMC 4 did the best in the series. Dead Rising 2(the western one) sold better then the 1st one and so on.

Either way what does this have to do with Strider?

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Zeroes will be two different engines like the way they made MGS2. Old Engine with Boss prequel, New Engine with awakened exploration. I really can't wait.
Huh? MGS2, the entire game is on one engine. All of MGS5 uses the FoX engine. Going forward Konami will be using the Fox engine. Zeros is an open world game and also basically a demo.
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Pleinair92



Joined: 31 Aug 2010
Posts: 50
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:48 pm Reply with quote
Tomba is also French for "he fell". Which, I think, would have been perfect for him, but I guess the same name was used throughout all of Europe for some reason.
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Penguin_Factory



Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 732
Location: Ireland
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 3:30 pm Reply with quote
I could sure go for a game of Mumblety-peg right about now.
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toddc



Joined: 23 Jul 2007
Posts: 164
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:22 pm Reply with quote
Shadowrun20XX wrote:
Now that I have gone through NIER, the spin off, I got to say that Drakengard 3 sounds really good. I'm going to have to go back to the other two now.


Well, you don't have to actually play them. Even people who like the first two Drakengard games (I don't) tend to recommend checking out a Let's Play overview instead of going for the full experience.


Shadowrun20XX wrote:
Griffhor14 : Since when were Soul Blazer 1992, Illusion of Gaia 1993 and Terranigma 1995 (what brick and mortar store offered this?) considered a trillogy? That sounds like choosey fans to me. I grinded the hell out of Robotrek and Actraiser is one out my favorites I still play to this day. Those three have nothing to do with each other unless they mean the dog TURBO.


It's more of an informal trilogy that fans link together due to the games sharing existential themes, gameplay styles, and so on. The first boss of Soul Blazer also appears in Illusion of Gaia and explicitly mentions "the Blazer" previously defeating him.
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RyanSaotome



Joined: 29 Mar 2011
Posts: 4210
Location: Towson, Maryland
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 3:56 pm Reply with quote
It might be too late to update this post, but Monster Monpiece has been confirmed to release next week as well:

https://store.sonyentertainmentnetwork.com/#!/en-us/games/monster-monpiece/cid=UP0031-PCSE00373_00-MONSTERMONPIECE1
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Mister Ryan Andrews



Joined: 28 Jan 2014
Posts: 219
PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 4:21 am Reply with quote
Rahxephon91 wrote:
Yeah the Japanese game industry is so perfect. It's not moving to mobiles with crappy F2P set-ups because core gaming models are changing and it's not having companies neglect thier ips and outscource development more and more. Yep, nothing negative is happening in Japan.


Stuff you don't like doesn't make it a negative, FYI. Bit of a newflash for you, but cellphone games have ALWAYS been a part of Japan. Back to the Pokemon Crystal days where you could link it up with your cellphone and go online. Japan was into phone gaming before smartphones came out and Angry Birds or Flappy Birds or whatever was a thing. Right now I can look at the top selling mobile games in Japan and see over half the Top 10 filled with Square-Enix's stuff. People who think mobile games are a bad move on SquareEnix or Capcom or whoever's part are either delusional or just bitter they can't play them since they tend to be Japan-only. There's a reason companies continue to make mobile games.. because they work.

Your senseless sarcasm and lack of any points makes me think you're just upset someone pointed out the western industry is kinda stagnant right now. I mean, you cared enough to rant about the cel-shaded comment he made but didn't care enough to do a quick Google search to find some recent games with stylized graphics like

Youkai Watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqjRLVnvwmA
Atelier: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69gjhb06hCQ
Naruto: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfPtddaiWp8

Any anime-style game pretty much would work... or even Super Mario 3D Land which is a nice style as well.
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Rahxephon91



Joined: 08 Jun 2003
Posts: 1859
Location: Park Forest IL.
PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 1:55 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Stuff you don't like doesn't make it a negative, FYI.
Oh so you like that Japanese companies have basically stopped making use of most of thier properties and instead whore them out for social games on either your browser or your phone. If you like it so much, please argue how that is at all good.

It's also funny you're trying to make this point for this argument. It can easily be spun around against you. You don't like western games, that dosen't make them a negative.



Quote:
Bit of a newflash for you, but cellphone games have ALWAYS been a part of Japan. Back to the Pokemon Crystal days where you could link it up with your cellphone and go online. Japan was into phone gaming before smartphones came out and Angry Birds or Flappy Birds or whatever was a thing.
Here lets look at the word "moving". Newsflash to you, but the use of that word would imply that the industry is using that as a primary platform.

Newsflash for you again, back in those days that wasn't the primary platfourm. Square annoying that FFVII spin off with the Turks was not them saying "oh yeah are next main FF is on mobiles". No it was just them announcing a small spin-off. These cellphone games weren't superseding console or even handheld games.

But now they are. We don't get a handheld or console Breath of Fire game, no we get a cheap broweser game. Same with Mana, Saga, whatever. Square makes more cell phone games with cheap f2p hooks then actual single player games.

You want to argue with me that this is good? That this industry is on a good path?

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People who think mobile games are a bad move on SquareEnix or Capcom or whoever's part are either delusional or just bitter they can't play them since they tend to be Japan-only. There's a reason companies continue to make mobile games.. because they work.
Oh I'm so sorry we're bitter that we don't get to play actual games.

Here lets use your logic now since it's not about quality, but about sales.

The north american industry is fine. It's not stagnate because Call of Duty and GTA sell millions and million.

So now I guess you can't say the western game market is bad because well I guess mobile games are great because they sell right?

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Your senseless sarcasm and lack of any points makes me think you're just upset someone pointed out the western industry is kinda stagnant right now.
No my friend, my points all make sense. It's yours that don't. You could'nt even argue about the point of the abandonment of ips, the crappy f2p model, or the outsourcing of development. No instead you decided to attack one point only and quite poorly at that. You're defense was "oh they've been on mobiles before, which ignores the point that mobiles were not the primary thing, just another thing. And then you tried to reason that it's fine because the sales. So yeah the sales are fine, but I guess we'll ignore the actual games and what they are, the quality, and whatnot. I'm happy you're fine not actually playing games from Japanese companies, but that seems a bit lame to me.

It's the usual "the western game market sucks" while also ignoring that the Japanese aren't so great.

Quote:
I mean, you cared enough to rant about the cel-shaded comment he made but didn't care enough to do a quick Google search to find some recent games with stylized graphics like
Because I don't need to.

Thats a small list of games. Oh Naurto an anime based game uses cel-shading. Whoop de do. The Atelier games which look like crap either way. They look so bad that I actually forgot they were cel-shaded, because they look so half assed. Then again Gust is what 15 people?

Guile tried to make it sound like there are all these Japanese console games using stylised graphics to get buy, but they aren't. There's been a few. Tales of Vesperia, EX Troopers, Catherine, Naruto. This dosen't even make up half of Japan's console output.

But even then his point is these have allowed them to not have big budgets. Except is that true? Ni No Kuni used stylized graphics, I doubt that was cheap. Catherine may have been cheap, but the game is also a puzzle game with limited environments. The graphics aren't what kept the budget down. EX Troopers was a handheld game ported up. I wonder if ToV was expensive to make, because none of the other Tales have done that again and in Xillia's case they cut corners in level design. Same story in Xillia 2, but it's even worse. I wonder how much the Naruto games cost? They sell well and they probably reuse the engines and assist. Maybe that negates any budget concerns. The Aitiler games are cheaply made and they look it, even with cel-shading they look bad and are nowhere close to the games talked about here.
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Mister Ryan Andrews



Joined: 28 Jan 2014
Posts: 219
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 2:48 pm Reply with quote
Rahxephon91 wrote:
Oh so you like that Japanese companies have basically stopped making use of most of thier properties and instead whore them out for social games on either your browser or your phone.


Not all franchises need yearly installments like shooters and sports games. Some franchises just end when the creator feels like they're done or before they turn bad, like Silent Hill/Castlevania have now.

Besides, one thing Japan does very well is make original IPs. Dark Cloud may have ended, but instead Level 5 made tons of new IPS like Rogue Galaxy, Ni no Kuni, Professor Layton, Inazuma Eleven, Danball Senki, and now Youkai Watch. It might be more rare in the west to see new IPs outside the indie scene, but in Japan it's pretty nice. And yeah, I imagine shooters being a big thing in America doesn't help where most new IPs out of the west are just Call of Duty clones. None of the games I listed are these supposed 'Monster Hunter clones' you claim are just as rampant as shooters are.

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But now they are. We don't get a handheld or console Breath of Fire game, no we get a cheap broweser game. Same with Mana, Saga, whatever. Square makes more cell phone games with cheap f2p hooks then actual single player games.


Well for one thing comparing Mana and Saga to Final Fantasy is dumb, those franchises are so far behind Final Fantasy in popularity and sales it's not even funny. And also, what platform a game is on doesn't matter much. Have you even played these games to see if they're bad or not? It's not like BoF getting an app game means there's no chance at a traditional console game. BoF hasn't had one in a decade, and I doubt an app game coming out is going to prevent it from getting a console game like they're mutually exclusive. Breath of Fire was never getting another game to begin with. It's not 'replacing' anything so blaming some mobile game is pointless and petty.

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Oh I'm so sorry we're bitter that we don't get to play actual games.


'acutal games'? Is this some self-identifying 'true gamer' ego complex or something? A game is a game.

Quote:
Here lets use your logic now since it's not about quality, but about sales.


Stop changing the argument. You said it was a bad move to do mobile games and their only 'smart decision' was buying Eidos, a company which has been bleeding Square dry financially with poor performing games like Tomb Raider and Hitman. Mobiles have actually been a great source of income for Square by comparison. This sounds more like you think them getting Eidos is the best thing ever because Eidios is a 'superior western company' or something, not actually looking at financial and fiscal reports. Anyone who says Square should stop doing Mobile games has no idea about business or what is actually good for a company.

Quote:
Atelier games which look like crap


'Crap', really? -_-;



How in the world is this crap to you? Not 'not to my preference' or 'not a style that interests me' but literally 'crap'? It amazes someone can outright call this crappy looking. Is this the kind of close-minded mentality of if it's hand drawn or anime it's automatically kiddy/bad? I guess that's why 99% of the big mainstream games have to look brown/gray and realistic.

Yeah there's some more realistic looking Japanese games like Resident Evil and Metal Gear Solid, but that's the thing, there's variety in art styles, something the west is pretty lacking. The only big Western game of recent years I can say had an interesting art style was Borderlands. And I don't see why you're saying Tales aren't like Vesperia anymore. Graces and Xillia both use a similar style. The franchise has pretty much always used that style since it jumped to 3D with Symphonia.
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enurtsol



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 14746
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 3:21 pm Reply with quote
Mister Ryan Andrews wrote:

You said it was a bad move to do mobile games and their only 'smart decision' was buying Eidos, a company which has been bleeding Square dry financially with poor performing games like Tomb Raider


OK let's end this misinformation right now: Tomb Raider is profitable.

http://www.thesixthaxis.com//2014/01/17/tomb-raider-brings-in-the-profit-for-square-enix/

It's only Square Enix that had too high expectations for it.
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Rahxephon91



Joined: 08 Jun 2003
Posts: 1859
Location: Park Forest IL.
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 4:05 pm Reply with quote
[quote]Not all franchises need yearly installments like shooters and sports games. /quote]Oh god would you stop with your antiwestern bias. There is one shooter that is on a yearly basis. Not like Japan dosen't have it's yearly released games either.We aren't talking about yearly installments. We're talking installments at all, made by actual Japanese teams.

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Some franchises just end when the creator feels like they're done or before they turn bad, like Silent Hill/Castlevania have now.
That's fine, if that meant those teams went on to other things only they didn't. Team Silent died. Iga does squat. This lack of series hasn't lead to new series from these developers. No instead Konami has basically stopped making core games outside of what MGS?

And oh please, none of these series ended because thier "creators" felt it was a good idea. This is just an attempt by you to misdirect that the real reason these series have stopped has more to do with these Japanese companies not interested in taking risks or spending actual money on new installments. Instead they rather not do that or whore them out in cheap mobile or browser games. Which I guess for you is better then actual new installments.

How is this a good thing?
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Besides, one thing Japan does very well is make original IPs. Dark Cloud may have ended, but instead Level 5 made tons of new IPS like Rogue Galaxy, Ni no Kuni, Professor Layton, Inazuma Eleven, Danball Senki, and now Youkai Watch.
Level 5 also then whored out half of those. To say the west hasn't come up with new IPS is ridiculous. Bioshock, Metro, Uncharted, Infamous, The Last of US, Gears of War, Dishonored, and so on.. The West this gen had just as many ips that all did thier own thing, of course people like decide to just lump them all as shooters regardless that none of them play the same.

I wonder looking at core console releases how many new ips have come out on each side, because like you want to think there are no new ips except some of the biggest games this gen were new western IPs.

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America doesn't help where most new IPs out of the west are just Call of Duty clones. None of the games I listed are these supposed 'Monster Hunter clones' you claim are just as rampant as shooters are.
Exactly my point. You're bias just shows right here. There are very few actual CoD clones. Uninformed people like you will point at say Battlefield, but those games are so completely different. So tell me what are the new ips that are just CoD clones? It's not Bioshock, Dishonnerd, Assassin's Creed, Infamous, Gears, Metro, The Witcher, Mass Effect, Dragon Age, Mirror's Edge, and so on. There's been a few like Homefront and then some c-tier games no one cares about. It's still hardly rampant as people like you try to make it out to be. Sure lets ignore in Japan that they keep coming out also with Monster Hunter clones like God Eater, The Sony one with Inafune and now Freedom Wars, the PSO Portable games, the Koei one and so on. MH clones are probably just as rampant as actual CoD clones, but people like you with you're incredible bias chose to ignore that, instead riding Japan's dick while trashing western games. I hate to tell you're uninformed ass, but being a shooter dosen't make you just like CoD.

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Well for one thing comparing Mana and Saga to Final Fantasy is dumb, those franchises are so far behind Final Fantasy in popularity and sales it's not even funny.
No it isn't. Those games do enough sales to at least make a handheld installment worthwhile. We can't even get that. How about other series such as Grandia, Valkyrie Profile, Star Ocean, Wild Arms... and so on. Nothing, not even other jrpgs by these developers as replacements. The fact is Square and other companies don't even make new full fledged installments in many of these series. You want to use your weak well "these series just end" argument to argue against this, but none of these series really operated like that.
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And also, what platform a game is on doesn't matter much. Have you even played these games to see if they're bad or not?
Well it actually does. Have you played mobile games? They are awful and in no way meet the same quality experience as an actual traditional jrpg. You're not going to at all get a console like jrpg on a mobile platfourm.

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It's not like BoF getting an app game means there's no chance at a traditional console game. BoF hasn't had one in a decade, and I doubt an app game coming out is going to prevent it from getting a console game like they're mutually exclusive. Breath of Fire was never getting another game to begin with. It's not 'replacing' anything so blaming some mobile game is pointless and petty.
But thats the thing we don't, because Japan dosen't make those games anymore. These mobile spin offs aren't just there as spin-offs. They have replaced them. If your fine with that then fine, but I'd like actual game releases.

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'acutal games'? Is this some self-identifying 'true gamer' ego complex or something? A game is a game.
You're being delusional if you think mobile games come close to the production quality on a console or even a handheld game.

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Stop changing the argument. You said it was a bad move to do mobile games and their only 'smart decision' was buying Eidos, a company which has been bleeding Square dry financially with poor performing games like Tomb Raider and Hitman.

You're the one who brought up sales not me. I'm aware that mobile games bring in sales, but I'm not talking about that because I don't care. I'm not a financial analyst. You're the one saying mobile games are good because of sales. I don't care, I like to actually play games. Square has hardly put out anything of note. At least Eidos put out something.

Since you're argument is fine because of sales then why even bitch about CoD. CoD sells great so you should be fine with companies trying to emulate it.

Lets be real the reason Square was bleeding money was because of FF14 bombing. Maybe they wouldn't have had to have insane expectations on Tomb Raider if the Japan side had actually done a good job the first time.

Poor performing games like Tomb Raider. Yep I guess 3 million+ is poor performing. That says more about a crappy managed company then it says about games like Tomb Raider and Hitman, each of which has sold well. Just not meet the incredibly high expectations. But hey they are pushing forward with sequels so they must be happy somewhat. At least the games will actually come out while the Japan side takes another 10 years to make one game.

And it has been a smart investment. It's given them actual western ips to use instead of wasting more money on crappy western versions of Japanese ips. Hell if they want to do that they actually have thier own talented western teams. it's also given them access to western tech people who are already helping out with thier new engine as seen in the Agni's Philosophy demo.

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This sounds more like you think them getting Eidos is the best thing ever because Eidios is a 'superior western company' or something,
I'm sorry if not having some "All hail Nippon" bias makes it seem like I think the west is somehow better. No I just hate people like you trashing western games while ignoring the flaws of Japan and then feeling the need to make up stuff to self-serve you're argument. Eidos is not some superior Western company. They made some decent games here and there, but they aren't great.

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not actually looking at financial and fiscal reports.
And if you do look at them you'd see a lot of thier problems revolve around 14 and having terrible unrealistic expectations for things like Tomb Raider.

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Anyone who says Square should stop doing Mobile games has no idea about business or what is actually good for a company.
Here's the thing, no one said that. What I said is that an absence of traditional core games is not a good thing. You think it is? Then fine.

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'Crap', really? -_-;
Nice bullshots.

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How in the world is this crap to you? Not 'not to my preference' or 'not a style that interests me' but literally 'crap'? It amazes someone can outright call this crappy looking.
Because they do in fact look like crap. Nice character models don't change the fact that characters animate poorly and environments are barren and cheaply made. They are cheaply made games after all.

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Is this the kind of close-minded mentality of if it's hand drawn or anime it's automatically kiddy/bad?
Well no. If it looked as good as say Catherine, Asura's Wrath, the Naruto games, Eternal Sonata, ToV, or so on then no. Again, if you're trying to make it that I dislike Japanese games then you're very wrong. But no, the Atelier games do not look good at all. Fancy models and character art(which I dislike anyway) don't mean the games look good.

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Yeah there's some more realistic looking Japanese games like Resident Evil and Metal Gear Solid,
Do you think "realistic" artstyles are just one thing. You want to call other people narrow minded and paint looking realistic as one thing, but thats hardly true. MGS may have a realistic style, but it's art design is anything but normal. It's got flair and style in how it's characters and mechanics look. Nothing else looks like like MGS. Same thing with RE, Capcom has some of the best artists in the industry and it shows.

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The only big Western game of recent years I can say had an interesting art style was Borderlands.
Thats you. I've found Dishonnerd, Bioshock Infinite, Castlevannia, Assassins Creed, The Last of Us, Resistance 3, DMC, Mirror's Edge, and so on to have fantastic art direction. Then again I don't have some incredible bias in favor of Japan like you do. I like games no matter where they are from.

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And I don't see why you're saying Tales aren't like Vesperia anymore. Graces and Xillia both use a similar style. The franchise has pretty much always used that style since it jumped to 3D with Symphonia.
ToV has cel-shadded graphics. Xilla and Graces do not. They look like crap compared to Vesperia.
http://xbox360media.ign.com/xbox360/image/article/883/883841/tales-of-vesperia-20080624095801028.jpg
http://www.the-nextlevel.com/media/360/tales-of-vesperia/tales-of-vesperia03.jpg
http://ctrlaltkill.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/tales-of-vesperia-xbox-360-178.jpg

None of them look as good as that game, dosen't help that Xilla decides to cut corners and just re-use environments like there's no tomorrow.

Besides the entire point from Guile was they they've used stylish graphics to deal with console development, but Japanese console development is in such a decline so even then it hasn't done much.
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