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REVIEW: Fate/Zero Blu-Ray Box Set II


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MexicanAnime



Joined: 12 Dec 2013
Posts: 23
Location: Houston, Texas
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 4:39 pm Reply with quote
#810093 wrote:
No C in animation this time around haha : P should seriously re do that first part review : P anyways, awesome review of an even more awesome anime.


The person who reviewed the first half of Fate/Zero is not the one who wrote the second half. Both are different people with different opinions.

Since the review hit many of the points that made Fate/Zero such a fantastic show, I'm going to share my thoughts on some areas I disagree.

For one, I don't mind the conversations early on. While I'm still unsure what is meant when people say Fate/Zero is not cinematic enough (as the reasons I hear are something I see in almost every great show), I thought the conversations themselves were rich with the themes it tries to represent early on while remaining engaging. This even includes the first episode, in where I'm the minority who finds it a good episode as it introduces new viewers to the magical and interesting world known as the Fate universe.

Secondly, I have no problem at all with the CG. While CG often or not tends to look bad in many anime, I believe it manages to pull off doing CG here well as it mostly restrains itself to the magic used within the show, which makes it stand out in a unique way and really gives you this otherworldly feeling.

Finally, to go back a bit into the first episode, I don't think the entry barrier is as big as it's being made to be. As said, the first episode does a good job of showing and talking about the world to us and it's something welcoming for newcomers to Type Moon. I've recommended Fate/Zero to many people (mostly those who have never played the F/SN VN) and they have all enjoyed it despite knowing nothing about Type Moon's other works. While many may argue that the series can't stand alone (often with the mention of the ending), I tend to disagree as it can work by itself and I was fine with the ending given to us. You don't have to be interested in Fate/Stay Night or like it to enjoy Fate/Zero. Note, while it is true that I love many works that come from Type Moon, I started off with Fate/Zero before playing the VN and these were my thoughts even back then.

Now for a little thing. You said "series of visual novels" when it's just one visual novel. Just a small error. Overall it was a fantastic review and I'm glad people are going to give the show a chance.
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nightjuan



Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 1473
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 4:48 pm Reply with quote
Though Gen Urobuchi didn't directly write the TV show himself, he obviously deserves a ton of credit for penning the books that the ufotable crew adapted rather brilliantly to an animated format.

I haven't really picked up this specific Fate/Zero box set yet, which is an issue that will be corrected in due time, but the experience of watching the entire show during its original airing was certainly an unforgettable one for me.

It's definitely one of the better and darker tragedies in anime, serving both as an excellent standalone work as well as an intriguing prequel to another set of materials that only partially reflect its own strengths, and instead prefer to bring forth other characteristics, for better or for worse, while still being part of a single unified universe.
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drdr48



Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 360
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 5:11 pm Reply with quote
Animation : B+

Confused


LOL! It should be A+. This show has the best animation of any animated show I've ever seen! And I've seen A LOT of animated shows...


Last edited by drdr48 on Thu Mar 06, 2014 7:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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SpicyWolf 145



Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 1
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 6:05 pm Reply with quote
Great review! Finally, someone who watched the show and actually paid attention to the laboriously crafted script in addition to the flashy battles. Fate/Zero easily ranks among my favorite anime, and I'm glad that someone else appreciates its ending for what it is
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Juno016



Joined: 09 Jan 2012
Posts: 2377
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 8:24 pm Reply with quote
SouthPacific wrote:
I watched the first 7 episodes and didn't get hooked, there was just so much talking... and not the kind of enjoyable talking like you see in the Monogatari series, but talking that seemed a bit too ambitious... But i've been told many times before that the second half is where the show really, really shines, and it seems it may just do that. Maybe i'll have to pick it up, although i've got way too many pre-orders the two coming months... Laughing


It's truly a difference in what kind of person will actually pick up meaning and impact from those conversations. They're EXTREMELY meaningful and really powerful, especially if you have read the original visual novel this is a prequel to (particularly Heaven's Feel, as we know what happens in the future, how it happens, and why). The first whole scene is one of the most memorable scenes for me (admittedly more in the drama CD and novel, though, as Kiritsugu is actually bawling his eyes out, whereas the anime just has him looking depressed). The discussions involving the politics of the war were interesting to me since I tend to get invested in that stuff, but what it meant for characters like Kiritsugu and Kirei were special, since they really explore the basis behind their thoughts that lead up to future confrontations. They hint to those same confrontations. Overall, I enjoyed the dialogue and build-up as much as I enjoyed the conflicts, climaxes, and conclusion.

But I don't hold everyone's expectations to the same level I hold my own expectations. In the end, it's perfectly natural to not find as much interest in the stuff the story is trying to pull at first. But I still think it's important to recognize that it's not necessarily a "flaw" of the series, especially since it was adapted from a novel, in which Urobuchi himself said that it was probably best as the novel, due to the idea that he wrote it with a novel in mind (where dialog and narration and exposition are extremely important).

And personally, I still like the novel more, though I still think the anime is a great adaption. The adaption just doesn't go into as much detail about what's going on screen, and I find that people tend to truly mistake what's going on in Kiritsugu's head when they only watch the anime (especially his actions as a kid and growing up in the flashbacks), so the novel is where we get to see the direct transitions and clarification that the anime falters on to the point where even some scenes are slightly different.

Still a personally-recommended anime, though, and I tend to just tell people additional details from the novel as they watch, so that's usually sufficient enough anyway. =P
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halochief_90



Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 466
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 8:26 pm Reply with quote
At last ANN gives F/Z the praise it deserves. I was originally not going to watch the dub, because I find it hard to imagine the English coming close to the Japanese cast. I guess I'll give it a try now.
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zrdb





PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 8:37 pm Reply with quote
This is the reason I like the Fate series-WELL DONE!!
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JacobC
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Joined: 15 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:18 pm Reply with quote
Yeah, I should note that I haven't read the Fate/Zero book, despite mentioning it several times, but I did copiously google anything I wanted to know more about, and it helped me a lot in filling in the blanks on why certain things were happening to certain people and why.

One character I really like that I didn't really have space to mention in the review is Kariya, aka the "Sayaka" of Fate/Zero. In the show, they never explicitly state that spoiler[he sacrifices himself to years of horrible, torturous pain all because he's in love with Tokiomi's wife, and sees himself as a surrogate father to those children,] but this is a HUUUUUGE part of understanding why the story beats him with the crapstick so hard. I know when I was watching, that kept floating up in the back of my mind, but it's never confirmed, you have to read the book to really know that's how he feels. Closest we get is the scene spoiler[where he strangles Aoi because she says "You've never loved anyone in your entire life!" and he's like "WHOOOO DO YOU THINK I DID THIS FORRRRRR?!"] Even then, you gotta just assume or infer.

But Kariya's fascinating because he spoiler[gave up his life to save people who didn't really want to be saved, due to his own obsession with the past and "what might have been."] It takes us from initial sympathy with him fighting back against a terrible system to question why he's fighting, and if it's worth it to try and "free" people without regard for their own choices and worldview. (Hint: it's not.) spoiler[Kariya gets zero gratitude from either Aoi or Sakura and dies a lonely bug-riddled death.]

Kirei sees this contradiction in Kariya's nature and is fascinated by it, although he doesn't really get why until Gilgamesh drags it out of him, because Kirei is a big dumb boring unmolded lump of clay, like in any Faustian narrative. spoiler[Their destruction of him is brutal, and serves as the catalyst for Kirei's true turn to evil from the inside-out. Before, he was acting more out of the promise of fulfillment Archer offers him, but it's not until he gets to humiliate and ruin Kariya that he says "It's like I've never tasted wine before!"] Why is this?

Because to Kirei, the rogue, repulsed-by-institution Kariya fully represents his hatred of the institution's corruption, blindness, and hypocrisy. spoiler[His takedown of Tohsaka was supposed to be his "Well screw YOU, Dad!!!" but it isn't really. Tohsaka wasn't a hypocrite, he really believed in what he was doing and did it in a way he saw as honorable: a true "man of faith" to the mage order. He was a real fundie, and a boring, stoic man. Archer asks him "Is that as good as killing your father?" and he's like "...He was just like my father, they were in cahoots, but that was ... stupid."

Kariya on the other hand is contradiction. He is a slave to the letter of the law without the spirit, except it's not the law, it's his own radical desires, carried out without regard for logic or remote consideration for the wishes of others. (Which was why he needed to re-become a slave to the institution to accomplish those dreams.) His is an incredibly selfish self-sacrifice, and it makes Kirei sick. When he destroys Kariya, he's really killing all the things he hated about his father: his self-absorbed blindness to the desires of his own son.]


So long story short, all Kariya's rebellious sacrifice ultimately does is ruin the lives of the people he was trying to protect, and ensure Kirei's complete turn to evil by making himself a big burning effigy of the very thing he hated: the institution. Great job, Cockroach-Jesus!

...this show is a good show.
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grooven



Joined: 16 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:42 pm Reply with quote
Fantastic review! If I hadn't seen it already, this alone would convince me Smile
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Angel M Cazares



Joined: 23 Sep 2010
Posts: 5407
Location: Iscandar
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:50 pm Reply with quote
SouthPacific wrote:
As for the review itself, it seemed quite solid, but if there's one thing I dislike with the review it's the lack of coverage on the packaging, which is kind of AoA's forte... No one can deny that AoA has some of the most gorgeous box sets and that there's not many companies that can rival them.


Yeah, yeah. We all know you love Aniplex USA and will not shut about it. You should work for AoA because you do a great job pimping it every chance you get.

For the record, I like AoA, but your constant praise towards it is annoying.
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Doodleboy



Joined: 23 Dec 2013
Posts: 296
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:08 pm Reply with quote
Never really thought of that for Kariya. Part of me thought while watching "Just use your command seals to rescue her, screw the grail. You're going to die anyways". But that makes sense, never grew up with religion so it's an interesting perspective. Kirei in this series sole motivation is to crush other people's beliefs and ideals.

Same with Lancer. First thought the Mercutio comparison was (going to use that word) pretentious. But thinking about it, Mercutio is apt. A good man torn by the tragic follies of others, and dies cursing them. That's Mercutio all right. Although Lancer had his own follies.
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JacobC
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Joined: 15 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:41 pm Reply with quote
Doodleboy wrote:

Same with Lancer. First thought the Mercutio comparison was (going to use that word) pretentious. But thinking about it, Mercutio is apt. A good man torn by the tragic follies of others, and dies cursing them. That's Mercutio all right. Although Lancer had his own follies.


That, and his death signifies the end of stability for the characters and their dreams and ideals, just like Mercutio. It's the "no turning back now, it's all downhill here" unfair death. Up to that point we think the climax of the show is going to be Saber and Lancer's fight, or maybe Saber and Lancer banding together at the end. spoiler[NOPE. Just one episode after they banded together to save the day with deep admiration for each other, he dies cursing her name. WELP.]
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Redcrimson



Joined: 30 Mar 2013
Posts: 160
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:56 pm Reply with quote
Good review, that was a fun read. I'm honestly a little surprised JO was so positive about it. I dunno why, but I sorta figured Fate/Zero would be outside of her wheelhouse.

Is Hope an Urobutcher fangirl now? Maybe we'll find out if she reviews Psycho-Pass.
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HitokiriShadow



Joined: 09 May 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:00 pm Reply with quote
JesuOtaku wrote:

But Kariya's fascinating because he spoiler[gave up his life to save people who didn't really want to be saved, due to his own obsession with the past and "what might have been."] It takes us from initial sympathy with him fighting back against a terrible system to question why he's fighting, and if it's worth it to try and "free" people without regard for their own choices and worldview. (Hint: it's not.) spoiler[Kariya gets zero gratitude from either Aoi or Sakura and dies a lonely bug-riddled death.]


I have a hard time with this part because while he certainly had issues regarding Aoi, Sakura never had a choice, and any 'choices' she made were only those of a child being manipulated by horrible adults or in absolute desperation and no way out.
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Doodleboy



Joined: 23 Dec 2013
Posts: 296
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:24 pm Reply with quote
Redcrimson wrote:
Good review, that was a fun read. I'm honestly a little surprised JO was so positive about it. I dunno why, but I sorta figured Fate/Zero would be outside of her wheelhouse.

Is Hope an Urobutcher fangirl now? Maybe we'll find out if she reviews Psycho-Pass.


Honestly, Fate/Zero and Madoka are Urobuchi at his peak. Psycho-pass and Gargantia aren't nearly as good. For Psycho-pass it had a lot of interesting ideas but Kougami and Masasoka were dull. And Akane's development was uneven.

Funnily enough. Been watching Urobuchi's Kamen Rider series, and despite the corniness, cheap special effects, and general silliness. I find it way more engaging then his last two efforts.

On another note, on the banding together part. I do love how on the surface it was an epic glorious team-up between all the heroes to defeat the only villain summoned by the Grail. But behind the scenes everything was fueled by self-interest, cynicism, and little bit of corruption. Even the most righteous war is never going to be completely selfless and there will always be other agendas at play.
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