Forum - View topicHey, Answerman! [2006-09-29]
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HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
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(WTH is wrong with the site? I keep having ad bars show up with no content as I click links, including forum links)
Anyway, part of the problem with the translation is a refinement of the huge problem Urusei Yatsura got with it's localization, which is, certain things don't translate well, but more importantly, some things (ESPECIALLY puns, love em or hate em) get lost. I haven't watched Bleach so honestly I don't care one way or another, but one thing you lose with different translation is things like: Ichigo->Ichi-ni-san(Ichi-bro)->Ichi ni san(1 2 3) Or things like Tsukino Usagi = Moon Bunny (Sailor Moon) or Ahiru = Duck (Princess Tutu) altho they kinda translated that directly but then it doesn't sound as "cute", but all in all I think PT turned out ok. Anyway, point being there is some stuff that for one reason or another simply defies localization, you need to just accept that and figure people who only watch the dub ARE "missing" some nuance (whether anyone CARES is debatable) and just stick to subs for your own amusement if it matters that much to YOU. I laugh at the concept that TokyoPop or Del Ray are leagues better. I actually wanted an excuse to note the "higher quality" of the pro releases that we always hear about considering that Del Ray basically has entire volumes of Negima that contain kana translation inconsistencies. (the most glaring being thousand master->southern master which makes no sense) To be fair, this has since been corrected and the Negima official releases ARE very good and I enjoy them a great deal, but there are obviously times when even the "paid" professionals ain't all that great. For the record, the Negima MANGA (at least) keeps the honorifics mostly intact and I enjoy it for that. That said, I think this works better on the written page than in the spoken word. This is also why I think some things work better as a sub even if you don't understand Japanese because you can hear it in Japanese (even if you don't understand) and it "reads" in a way that doesn't sound funny where it WOULD sound funny if actually spoken. |
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Royal Devil
 Posts: 194 |
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I don't know what the rant author has been reading but in my volumes of Bleach I've been buying from Viz they have consistantly been using Zanpakuto, Soul Reaper, Soul Society, and others. In fact, Shinigami -> Soul Reaper is one of the few translated Japanese terms. In fact, I think it would still be shinigami if Kubo didn't wish it to be Soul Reaper. The only time I remember Zanpakuto being translated was as Ghost Cutter, and that was in the same sentence as Zanpakuto and has never been used since. |
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burzmali
Posts: 143 |
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Since when did the honorifics get stripped out of the English language. I may have graduated grammar school over a decade ago, but I could have sworn that Mr., Miss, Mrs., Ms., Dr., and Prof. were all still in common use. Admittedly, Japanese has more honorifics and more combinations, but you can convey the same concept in English, it just takes a little effort.
Last edited by burzmali on Fri Sep 29, 2006 10:48 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Kilgamayan
 Posts: 275 Location: Location, Location. |
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I don't understand what the problem is with a bunch of good games coming out at once. Assuming I have the money to get them all when they come out, then I'd rather have them all as fast as possible, and if I don't, then I'll just stagger my purchases accordingly - which, from the perspective of my person, is ostensibly the same thing as the games getting a staggered release. (In fact, given the potential for price drops, the game flood may be better than staggered releases on my wallet.)
Even if it is a bad thing for the consumer, it's still on the consumer's plate to convince the producer that it's bad for them as well (because, everything else being the same, the producer is going to sell its games at peak purchase times during the year). Good luck with that if you're not willing to flat-out boycott a game or even an entire company based solely on release dates. |
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Joe Mello
 Posts: 2260 Location: Online Terminal |
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For some reason, I found that line amusing. Maybe it's because I've seen The Joker's Wild before. I have absolutely no qualms over a complaint like this because there really is no good way to handle honorifics and family culture. It's definitely a "see-if-it-sticks" kind of situation. I also find it understandable to worry about consistency, at least in this size of scope. If, 30 episodes down the line, you complain about something being said then being different than what was said in the 1st month of episodes, then I'll be a little upset. But congratulations to Cave. Even though I may not agree with him (or her), I totally understand why (s)he has a problem and seems fairly intelligent on the matter. |
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Nebs
 Posts: 384 Location: University of Illinois |
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I don't really have a problem in the Bleach dub if everyone calls her Orihime (even though some characters call her Inoue in the Japanese version) or that everyone calls him Ichigo (even though some call him Kurosaki), & so on. I would prefer it if they kept it like the Japanese version, but over all I guess it's not a big deal.
However, they better not call Ishida "Uryuu," or Hitsugaya "Toushiro," & so on. Because that would be criminal. NO ONE calls him Uryuu. I am worried about this though, since in the Shonen Jump preview for the anime a couple months back they did list him as Uryuu.... |
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elsie
Posts: 61 Location: Virginia |
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In English, honorifics generally indicate occupational status. They're very rarely used among peers. I actually had a conversation about English honorifics with my graduate students last week. I'm an English professor. While I insist my undergraduate students refer to me as Dr. ---, I tell the graduate students to call me by first name, because it reflects my view that they are junior members of the profession and no longer simply students. If I'm talking to students about another professor, I will refer to that professor as Dr. ---, but if I'm talking to that person, I will use the first name. I've also noticed that in anime, characters address each other by name more often than Americans typically do. I may use someone's name or title to get his or her attention, but I'll probably not use it during the actual conversation. I'll use pronouns instead. Anime seems to indicate that the Japanese are more likely to use the name than a pronoun. Among Americans of the same age and relative status (classmates, colleagues, etc) first names are the primary form of address. Honorifics are used where there's a distinct status difference, especially status differences based on the occupation of the person being addressed -- students addressing teachers, patients addressing doctors, employees addressing supervisors. |
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sunflower
 Posts: 1080 |
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To the first letter writer, you are not alone! :) I'm the same age, and started in because of the same movie. And during this time I've come across a good 20 other women our age who love anime and manga. Sure, it's not a huge number, but we're out there. When your new hobby gets you viewed as an eccentric at best by other adults who don't know any better, it helps to know that others share it. I always tell people anime isn't for someone who hasn't grown up, it's for anyone who hasn't grown old. |
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burzmali
Posts: 143 |
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In Japanese you always use a person's name, if you know it. My japanese isn't great, but using a pronoun out of place seems akin to referring to someone in the 3rd person when they are present. I reason I prefer honorifics in dubs is that honorifics are used to convey information in Japanese, information that gets horribly mangled when conveyed in English. Two examples, first Bubblegum Crisis 2040, Nene and Leon, Nene chides Leon by referring to him as Leon-chan, the dub tries to pass it off, but it jokes sound like a 3rd grader wrote them. Second, Please Teacher, if you have listened to the dub, it is just bizarre. Last edited by burzmali on Fri Sep 29, 2006 11:44 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Cowboy Cadenza
Posts: 243 Location: Poughkeepsie, NY |
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According to my Japanese teacher, it's generally considered more rude (or less respectful) to use "you" instead of the person's name when you're talking to someone in Japanese. Last edited by Cowboy Cadenza on Fri Sep 29, 2006 12:04 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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burzmali
Posts: 143 |
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I agree, it is also disrespectful to refer to someone you are speaking with in the third person, but Cowboy Cadenza understands that. |
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elsie
Posts: 61 Location: Virginia |
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Whereas in English, not using "you" would result in very bizarre speech patterns. I remember a translation note in the Tsubasa Reservoir Chronicle in which the Del Rey translator commented about having to adjust a line in which Ryoo told Shaoron not to use "you", which would have made no sense in English.
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elsie
Posts: 61 Location: Virginia |
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Count me in! I'm another 40-something female anime fan. I've been a fan for six years. I actually started with the butchered version of Escaflowne that ran on Fox. Then I went online, found out how much had been changed, and bought the set. From then on, I was hooked. |
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Strephon
Posts: 177 |
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On the topic of voice actors recording their lines separately: In his autobiography, Mel Blanc says this was his idea. According to him, they used to record everyone in one scene at the same time (probably as an extension of the procedure in radio broadcasting), but this led to too many botched takes when one actor would mess up their line, step on one of the other actors' lines, etc. Switching to recording each character separately greatly streamlined the process.
Of course this was also easier for Blanc because he was doing 90% of the voices in his cartoons anyway, but there's still a valid point there... |
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orangereel
Posts: 2 |
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First post, had to register because someone mentioned Synch-Point :x
Honestly, of every dub I've seen, I'd say hands down that Synch-Point handled the Tenshi ni Narumon dub better than any production I've ever seen by any company. The acting was SUPERB, the voices were spot-on and incredibly similar to the Japanese voices, the translations fantastic, and they left most if not all Japanese cultural references intact with a little reference guide just in case anyone was confused. Coupled with the awesome Japanese text reversible DVD covers, the karaoke tracks, I haven't seen a sweeter release of any liscenced property that stayed so close to anime fandom. That being said, they did release the 3rd volume, and believe me, I snapped it right up. I only mention this, because submitter mentioned only DVD 1 and 2 being out. I'm disappointed that Synch-Point is having such a hard time moving this title. It's genuinely a good show, and they handled it so well, even the most hard core "purists" wouldn't be able to find anything to take offence at. Synch-Point is actually my favourite liscenser simply because they put so much obvious effort into keeping close to what fans like. They don't have a track record for spotty translations or horrible dubbing, and yet it seems no one noticed them. Pretty depressing! |
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I'm the same age, and started in because of the same movie. And during this time I've come across a good 20 other women our age who love anime and manga. Sure, it's not a huge number, but we're out there. When your new hobby gets you viewed as an eccentric at best by other adults who don't know any better, it helps to know that others share it. I always tell people anime isn't for someone who hasn't grown up, it's for anyone who hasn't grown old.  |
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