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ANNCast - Wayward Sons


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StudioToledo



Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Posts: 847
Location: Toledo, U.S.A.
PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 1:15 pm Reply with quote
Galap wrote:
There's no problem that it resonated with a lot of people. I'm just not one of them.

Me neither.

Quote:
I mean no offense to people who like the show.

Well I didn't, so welcome to the club! Cool

Jason_F wrote:
I remember watching Starblazers when it first aired on US television back in '79. It was a big hit at my elementary school among all the Sci-Fi geeks. We had a small community of fans that would get together and talk about it. That show along with Battle of the Planets is what got me into anime because I was looking for good Sci-Fi series at that time.

Wish I could have been there with you!

Quote:
I was glad to see Space Battleship Yamato, the live action movie, and had a good time watching it. It took me back to all those old 70's anime I grew up with. In fact, on a trip to Tokyo in 2012, I bought the Japanese DVD just to have it at Yodobashi Camera.

Trooper! Wink
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noigeL



Joined: 14 Feb 2012
Posts: 149
PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 2:12 pm Reply with quote
lkmjr wrote:

While we're talking about Rebellion: PMMM is loaded with queerbaiting...


Surely there's a better term that can be used here?
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arromdee



Joined: 15 Mar 2010
Posts: 71
PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:37 pm Reply with quote
lkmjr wrote:

Self-sacrifice is emphasized in far too many stories about girls; girls are constantly pushed to put the needs and desires of others before their own....

Girls are punished for trying to have things. Girls are exploited and sacrificed for the greater good. The way that Urobuchi makes his point is sexist, plain and simple.


I would throw out the sexism accusations here and point out that in fiction, children are asked to put people's needs and others ahead of their own. Children's shows are, after all, written by adults who often see children as selfish brats who need to be more responsible. (Often with a lot of justification.)

And Japan, a less individualistic society than the USA, is going to have even more of this.
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arromdee



Joined: 15 Mar 2010
Posts: 71
PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:44 pm Reply with quote
I could not watch Gunslinger Girl all the way through because I saw enough loli subtext to creep me out. You have adult men in a position of power over little girls who have been taken away from outside support and put into a position where the adult men can use them for their own goals. Yes, it's supposed to be tragic for the girls, but the way it was presented seemed to dwell on all the wrong aspects. (And why male adults and female children?)
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StudioToledo



Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Posts: 847
Location: Toledo, U.S.A.
PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:29 pm Reply with quote
arromdee wrote:
I would throw out the sexism accusations here and point out that in fiction, children are asked to put people's needs and others ahead of their own. Children's shows are, after all, written by adults who often see children as selfish brats who need to be more responsible. (Often with a lot of justification.)

Something The Brothers Grimm knew too well.

arromdee wrote:
I could not watch Gunslinger Girl all the way through because I saw enough loli subtext to creep me out. You have adult men in a position of power over little girls who have been taken away from outside support and put into a position where the adult men can use them for their own goals. Yes, it's supposed to be tragic for the girls, but the way it was presented seemed to dwell on all the wrong aspects. (And why male adults and female children?)

That I can't answer personally, but there are quite a lot of 'lonely' guys out there that need to grow up I feel.
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raike8



Joined: 01 May 2014
Posts: 5
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2014 7:47 pm Reply with quote
lkmjr wrote:
It's not like he couldn't have told that story without torturing (fictional) little girls for episodes on end. Urobuchi could have chosen almost any genre to tell his story with. Unfortunately, he picked magical girls, the one genre that's centered around little girls becoming superheroes, empowered by their emotions, desires, ideals, and friendships. PMMM is the genre taken out of the girls' hands, twisted until it's barely recognizable, ripped apart, and clumsily pasted back together, and yet a very large and vocal portion of its fans hold it up as the best thing that ever happened to the genre. (Sure, there have been tons of grody, sexualized, adult-oriented "magical girls" over the years, but none of those are put on a pedestal to quite the degree that PMMM is.)

I really did enjoy PMMM the first time I saw it, but the longer I think about it, the more uncomfortable with it I become. Even with the ending, which spoiler[isn't nearly as positive as it's given credit for. Almost nothing actually changes. Madoka rescues puella magi before they become witches, but otherwise she doesn't change a single thing about the Incubators' system, which is still built around deceiving young girls into making wishes which will turn sour on them, ripping their souls from their bodies, and allowing them to either die quickly in combat or slowly of despair and corruption. And Madoka gives up everything for this!] The show spends episode after episode torturing little girls and crapping on everything magical girls stand for, then at the eleventh hour it tries to tack a smiley face on the end so that you don't feel bad about enjoying it.


spoiler[First off, Kyubey tells the girls about everything up front in the new world. He doesn't deceive them, they know (or are at least more informed about) what they're getting into.]

Second, Urobuchi literally says in the BD commentaries "this wasn't made with appeal to guys in mind". Make of that what you will.

I'll also note that Urobuchi seems to have a lot of respect for the magical girl genre:
Quote:
A “magical girl show” is a work that allows miracles to be written. For me, I think by [writing] Madoka I was able to write a “heartwarming story.” To be able to put all these different emotions into a work... that truly owes much to this vessel called the “magical girl show”.
— Gen Urobuchi, DVD/BD Volume 6 Booklet.


I think a lot of your complaints stem from the fact that Urobuchi wrote a very Urobuchi show, and it was also a magical girl show. He really likes writing about oppressive systems and people struggling against them (see: Psycho-Pass, Fate/Zero) and Madoka is most hopeful and uplifting of all his works: the protagonist rises above the system, and manages to change it for the better. The message is that even if the world is shitty, it is never wrong to have hope, and I'd say that's pretty damn inspiring and universal.
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