Forum - View topicAnswerman - Personal Space
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Spoofer
 Posts: 356 Location: NY |
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Er... I'd say that overwhelmingly, it'd be far easier for the typical American to make the necessary advancements in life in order to be able to spend a few grand in disposable income, than it would be for a typical (non-Japanese) person to learn fluent Japanese in a shorter period of time. Plus, as one gets older, it becomes easier to make the $$, and harder to learn another language. |
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ActionJacksin
 Posts: 112 |
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Oh look everyone it's that try hard Nihongophile who thinks he knows whats best on how people should consume entertainment. It's also funny that you think learning another language is the same as plopping down your income for an expensive suite of software, then suggest buying Japanese discs which are just as expensive and are essentially a luxury item, depending on the show. |
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walw6pK4Alo
 Posts: 9322 |
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Most of those were musicals to begin with, so their transition to SUPER HIGH BUDGET BROADWAY PRODUCTIONS isn't a logical canyon to cross. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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It saddens me that even in 2014 not all new anime can be watched on legal streams. Yes, most can be, but there are a few holdouts. And there's the far bigger problem of all the old anime that no-one has bagged the streaming rights to and probably never will. The anime industry has come a long way, and where we are today would have been almost unthinkable in 2008. But it is still creating holes in its coverage, and these holes give fansubs continued relevancy.
On a related note, it has been interesting to see how many groups still "work" on shows that CR or hulu or whoever is already covering. But the scene has changed in a big way, from offering their own translations to splicing edited subs taken from CR together with a high-quality raw. Heck, sometimes they just keep CR's video. Fanripping is now huge, and unfortunately the ease of doing so has meant that a lot of hack groups are jumping into the scene. They'll take CR translations and then edit them, ostensibly to improve them, fix mistakes (which are quite prevalent in CR's subs) or give them flavour (CR's subs can be very dry and staid). However, most of the time they add errors into the script, or fix a handful of inconsequential typos, slap their name on the video and call it a day. Here is a short article from a fansub reviewer lamenting the rise of what he calls "fakesubs". The article liberally uses cursewords and strong language, so if you are the sort of person who needs a trigger warning then consider yourself warned. |
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Cutiebunny
 Posts: 1746 |
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I don't think most people understand the amount of work that goes into it, especially from an animation standpoint. Each episode has a storyboard, which is constructed usually by the episode director. Each piece of the storyboard translated into a layout, usually drawn by an animation director or some other key animator. Then these are further broken down by a key animator, who will then draw a couple of frames of the sequence. Once these sketches are approved, they are handed to the junior animators, who create sketches to piece one key animator sketch to the other. That's why animation quality varies so much, even in the same sequence. What it boils down to is the amount of actual drawings per episode. An average 30 minute anime episode uses roughly 300-400 different backgrounds (such as a sky background, a house, etc.). While some of these backgrounds are used for just one frame, a good portion of these feature lengthy sequences, like a character walking down a street, or maybe fighting their rival. A fight sequence could be incredibly long, with multiple layers being down for each character involved, and layers for special effects. I have a sequence of sketches from a skirmish in the "Hakuouki" anime that consists of roughly 85 frames, the majority of which required different layers to create. Most sequences are usually checked over by the animation/episode director, so if there is anything they don't like, it's redone. Some of you reading this might be wondering how this is possible when all productions are CG. I've mentioned before that a lot of studios still draw things by hand. Just because they're not being painted on to cels any more does not mean that the process is simple. Drawings are now scanned into computers, layered onto hand painted backgrounds, and the computer colors in the characters and sequences them together so that there's movement. When you look at it from the perspective of how much artwork goes into making a 30 minute episode, it's easy to understand how production can get so behind. Some studios, like Toei, try to re-use animation sequences, such as when a character transforms or attacks. So, although the viewer might hate the fact that these sequences are used every episode and rarely, if ever, vary, for the studio, it's a great way for the studio to save some time. |
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unready
 Posts: 399 Location: Illinois, USA |
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That's only a reasonable position for people whose profession is English-Japanese translation, otherwise it's just as unreasonable as Americans expecting the rest of the world to learn English so Americans can speak with them. There was a fansub/industry joint panel at Otakon a few years ago where one of the industry reps on the panel expressed essentially the same opinion as the OP above, although for a different reason. The question to the panel was something like "Why do subs and dubs on DVD diverge so much sometimes from the original Japanese dialog?" and his answer was something like "If you don't like the English translation on the discs, we include the original Japanese audio on all our discs, too. You can just listen to that." (Sorry, but I don't remember who said it or what company he represented. I just recall it wasn't the Funimation guy, because it was the guy sitting next to the Funimation guy.) In my head, I was thinking, "WTF, dude, way to market your services, when the other side of the panel is a group of guys providing a competing translation for free." I've spent years learning two languages other than my native language, and none of them is Japanese. Although I think it's reasonable (even worthwhile) for anyone to learn a second language, expecting everyone to learn a specific language (e.g., Japanese, when they don't actually live in Japan) is just amazingly unreasonable. |
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Yttrbio
 Posts: 3652 |
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Blanchimont
 Posts: 3444 Location: Finland |
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That issue is still very so much relevant for those of us not inhabiting a certain superpower country on the North American continent. When half of a season's shows one is following are blocked on Crunchy and locked on Funi, one is glad for the subs/rips out there... |
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maximilianjenus
Posts: 2862 |
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His answer was still pretty reasonable as there are some things that just can't be translated 100% accurately because the target language lacks certain words/concept ; i don't know if it's worse wit dubs as the timings have to fit or with subs, as there is a limit on how fast the target public for your releases can read. now comparing learning japanese to spending a few thousand bucks on merchandise is fun, ebcause for a student with no job and plenty of free time that sounds like it makes some sense, but for a professional short on time, the time invested learning japanese means hundreds of thousands of dollars lost time wise. |
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angieness
Posts: 162 Location: Columbus, OH |
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I work in the US comic industry and have friends with graphic design jobs and one that works for a clothing compay and a few that have works in the US animation/movie industry. I can confirm that crunch time is a thing in most of the art industry as a whole. It's not unusual for projects to not get complete until the day they're due, so I'm not surprised that anime has this same problem.
I used to pirate a lot because cable internet and digital fansubs blew up when I was in college. It's extremely rare I'll pirate now that I can afford to purchase the anime I love and have subscriptions for CR, Hulu+, and Netflix. I think the only time I've pirated anything in the past 5 years was when a popular CR show kept getting delayed and I didn't feel like avoiding the internet to keep from getting spoiled when the fansubs were available significantly earlier. |
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Mr. sickVisionz
 Posts: 2173 |
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Jennie's boyfriend's logic is probably the dumbest I've heard. if you've ever done something wrong in your life, it's hypocritical to recognize the error of your ways. Typical i just took philosophy 101 so now I'm Plato mode of thinking.
Bleach the musical probably isn't winning awards from Japan's most prestigious theatrical institutions though nor are they produced by award winning set and cosine designers. I've always gotten the impression that these productions are like significantly worse than your typical local theater production here in the US. Comparing them to the Lion King is like comparing some YouTube exclusive no budget horror film to an Oscar award winning film. |
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Touma
 Posts: 2651 Location: Colorado, USA |
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I do not think that they can cut down on the work because they must produce a predetermined amount of anime to fill the time slot each week. Edit: I guess that they could take fewer jobs, but that would mean making less money, which is not a viable option for most working people. They cannot extend the time because they have to meet the TV schedule. I doubt that they can start earlier because they need to finish what they were working on before they can start the next project. Also they might have to wait for the source material, such as a manga, to be ready. They probably have some flexibility if they are working on a movie or OVA, but not for a television show. |
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Lord Geo
Posts: 2544 Location: North Brunswick, New Jersey |
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Yeah, I do wonder if there will ever be a point where we literally do get "everything" that debuts every season. Most people are quick to point out that the stuff that gets left out are generally "kids anime" like the Pretty Cures, the Yu-Gi-Oh!s, the Beyblades, etc., but alongside those are the occasional titles that are simply "ignored" (I don't really want to use that word, but it works on a general level). This Spring season is really cool, but the last one I was really excited about, Spring 2011, had a good number of "ignored" titles. Admittedly, since then CrunchyRoll has only gotten more & more each successive season, and some of them have been fansubbed, but there's still one or two titles from seasons like that that I would love to see available in English, if only for the sake of being able to actually watch them.
I must admit, when CrunchyRoll "went legit" & showcased a growing presence in the simulcast sector I was hoping that fansubbing would eventually revert to its original purpose: Making titles available in English (& other non-Japanese languages) that would otherwise never be given such a "luxury". While that did come true slightly, especially when it came to old anime, some of those who still fansubbed kind of showcased their true colors by still fansubbing titles that are getting simulcasted. For example, just this past season Hajime no Ippo: Rising got simulcasted over at CrunchyRoll, but Saizen Fansubs (the sports anime fansubbers) still subbed it themselves as it was airing... And all I could wonder is "Why are they doing this?". Meanwhile, people ask them if they might sub something that isn't already available in English, like Ring ni Kakero, & their response was essentially "Hey, we're going to do what we want to do. Don't like it? Tough noogies.". In the case of Ring ni Kakero, which they did half of Season 1, they even went full-on childish & insulting by referring to it as "Ring no Crapero", as if a simple "We stopped doing that show because no one wanted to work on it, so no." was not appropriate. There's a lot of ego when it comes to fansubbing, and that's likely going to hurt them more & more as time goes on & simulcasting (& streaming in general) becomes more widespread and covers more & more anime. |
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maximilianjenus
Posts: 2862 |
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yeah, probably the only way to fix that is to have bigger budgets so they contract more people.
it also seems to be a case of "if you are not perfect you are an hypocrite", happens when people improve themselves, like let's say someone who smokes/drinks and starts exercising to improve his/her health, now the people who don't exercise ( usually those critiques come from people who don't even try to improve themselves) call them hipocrites because sure, they are exercising , but they still drink/smoke, so what's the point of exercising. |
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Cutiebunny
Posts: 1746 |
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It's like most jobs. Your client wants you to produce something by a certain date. If you say you can't, then someone else will get the contract. You, of course, will say that your studio can do it, for some amount under budget, and whatever else you can say to secure the funds necessary to keep your studio afloat and, if the show is a success, to get a cut of that profit. My assumption is that most producers are aware of the time required to make an episode(those that appear at cons mention it at their panels), but it's just that they don't care. Their job is to secure clients to keep the studio going. If there's a deadline and the episode isn't done, better tell staff they're not going anywhere for a couple of days. Cutting the run time of an episode or taking some other shortcut isn't exactly an option considering how vocal Japanese fans are. Nor would their client be happy with the diminished quality. I think delaying the episode would be preferential to a shoddy episode, but there's only so many delays a studio can make before the fans get upset and bail...unless the series you're working on is 'Sailor Moon', and you can string them on for another decade. Clearly, there are unrealistic expectations all around. Giving a studio a short notice of less than three months of a 13 episode/30 minute episode series with the expectation of a new episode every week may not be realistic depending on the size of the studio, the amount of animators they can dedicate to the project, and the level of detail expected. Fans expect new episodes every week, and those series that try to release episodes on a bi-monthly basis are heavily criticized by fans. |
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