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configspace



Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 3717
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 4:56 pm Reply with quote
Being outside the US is still one reason to pirate. Another is censored streams. Personally, I just wait for the BD fansubs considering more now are providing additional footage, in addition to corrected footage on video, as well as extra shorts. Hell, some like Dragonar Academy, are providing additional scenes in the AT-X version, though they are still censored Mad (to get you to buy the BDs of course..)
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Paiprince



Joined: 21 Dec 2013
Posts: 593
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 5:12 pm Reply with quote
Mr. sickVisionz wrote:
I've always gotten the impression that these productions are like significantly worse than your typical local theater production here in the US. Comparing them to the Lion King is like comparing some YouTube exclusive no budget horror film to an Oscar award winning film.


Clearly you are unaware of the musical production of Sakura Taisen heavily inspired by the Takarazuka Revue which I think can go toe to toe with Western musical counterparts.
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mdo7



Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 6248
Location: Katy, Texas, USA
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 5:12 pm Reply with quote
nhat wrote:
DmonHiro wrote:
I honest to God do not understand these anime-musicals. Why? Just... why?


Ehhh just like how there's broadway shows for the Lion King and other shows based off cartoons?


Second that too, I mean there's musical based on hit movies like The Bodyguard became a musical. I mean, do you not know this DmonHiro??

angelmcazares wrote:

It was until I discovered and subscribed to Crunchyroll in 2012 that I decided to commit to abandoning fansub sites. Almost every anime I stream nowadays are new shows in legal sites. I wish I did not have to do it anymore, but I still need to use fansub sites for old and/or obscure anime that is not legally available for streaming.


Same for me, I stop pirating because well I want to support the industry, and also because legal streaming is making it possible to watch anime for free and to also support the industry. Another reason is because when I used to do it, my previous PC got too many viruses, my PC didn't operate normally. That's why I stop piracy, I'm thankful for Crunchyroll, Hulu, etc...

I like to add (not related to anime/manga but on piracy) there are arguments and evidences that piracy doesn't cause negative loss (sadly the website's article I want to use is down for now, when it's up I'll put it in The link to the article is working now), and it seem to benefit and help sales. I'm not saying it's right to pirate, but it does seem debatable if piracy help sales or cause loss of profit.

But back on topic, the putting sub and dub on Hulu it's a good way to see if the fans want to buy the DVDs/blu-rays or not worth it. It's smart marketing I must say.

About the production delay, yeah that doesn't surprise me, anything can cause production delay like lack of money, dispute and bad blood between creators and production committee, problem getting music/OST for the anime, etc...

On the stage/musical adaptation, I mean I'm not surprised a lot of thing can be adapted for stage, anime or manga are not immune to stage/musical adaptation. I started to notice musicals from Asia (ie: South Korea for one example) is getting a lot of attention outside of Asia and on a global scale.

EDIT 2: link to the article is working now.


Last edited by mdo7 on Mon May 05, 2014 5:07 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Tempest
I Run this place.
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Joined: 29 Dec 2001
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Location: Do not message me for support.
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 5:15 pm Reply with quote
configspace wrote:
The production issues question was also something I was planning on asking. The hectic schedule and sleeping under desks (also mentioned in Lea Hernandez's interview) seems to be the norm. I appreciate the massive amount of work involved in anime, but I still wonder, could not everything be scheduled waaay in advanced to compensate?


That creates a cashflow problem. By making stuff early, you need to spend money early, and then you can't earn your revenue for a long time.

Imagine you're an investor, which of these two pitches would you chose ?

1 - "I need $1.2 million to produce an anime, and I won't start earning money till 3 months after we start spending the main production budget."

2 - "I need $1.2 million to produce an anime, and I won't start earning money till 6 months after we start spending the main production budget."

You might think that an extra 3 months isn't that long to wait, but don't forget that you want to fund another anime in 3 months, and if you don't start earning money on this one, you won't have the money to make that one.

Obviously I've drastically simplified things here, but most companies just can't add a 3-month delay into their receivables. No investor wants an added delay on their ROI, unless the delay will result in an improved ROI, and in this case it wouldn't create a significant improvement.

-t
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Juno016



Joined: 09 Jan 2012
Posts: 2377
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 5:17 pm Reply with quote
On the topic of the amount that goes into an anime, we also have to take in the fact that an anime is NEVER finished until the deadline. It is a piece of art that the creators and individual animators spend a lot of time making the best they possibly can. They don't just finish a month early with something they THINK is good, especially if they think they have SOME time to make it better. So they add more to their own plate and, when they notice that they're still not done with the new fixes on top of some other work still left over, they go into a traditional and inevitable last-minute crunch time.
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Tempest
I Run this place.
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Joined: 29 Dec 2001
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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 5:24 pm Reply with quote
Animators are a bit like journalists. If they have a column due every Friday at noon, and it takes them 60 minutes to write the column, they will invariably plan to write it at 11:00 am on Friday, end up starting it Friday morning at 11:30 and then realizing that this week it's going to take them 90 minutes to write.... again.

-t
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mdo7



Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 6248
Location: Katy, Texas, USA
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 5:26 pm Reply with quote
@Tempest: That's very interesting, never knew that.
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configspace



Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 3717
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 5:29 pm Reply with quote
@Tempest

Thanks for the explanation. I didn't think about the cashflow perspective of the investors, but that makes a lot of sense.
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Greed1914



Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 4410
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 6:18 pm Reply with quote
I don't see how deciding to stop pirating something now that free, legal options are available makes someone a hypocrite. Just because somebody used to do something, doesn't mean they have to keep doing it. For example, would you honestly consider a former drug dealer a hypocrite because he decided to stop selling drugs and to make his money at a legitimate job? Obviously, that is a bit of an extreme example, but it illustrates the point.
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Blanchimont



Joined: 25 Feb 2012
Posts: 3426
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 6:41 pm Reply with quote
Greed1914 wrote:
I don't see how deciding to stop pirating something now that free, legal options are available makes someone a hypocrite. Just because somebody used to do something, doesn't mean they have to keep doing it. For example, would you honestly consider a former drug dealer a hypocrite because he decided to stop selling drugs and to make his money at a legitimate job? Obviously, that is a bit of an extreme example, but it illustrates the point.

I wish your point would stick, but I fear, it, again, will shoot straight past those on these boards that still hold a strong aversion to Crunchy for its background... Neutral
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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
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Location: currently stalking my waifu
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 11:16 pm Reply with quote
Blanchimont wrote:
That issue is still very so much relevant for those of us not inhabiting a certain superpower country on the North American continent. When half of a season's shows one is following are blocked on Crunchy and locked on Funi, one is glad for the subs/rips out there...


You make a most salient point. There's no point in one country getting legal streams if everyone else is barred from using them. People live in Canada, the United Kingdom and other countries too, not just America, so it's cruel that in today's world they have to be denied access to legal streams just because of some antiquated notion of geography. CrunchyRoll is way better than hulu but all the sites have their gaps.

All hail HorribleSubs.
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MagicallyDelicious



Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 157
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 11:51 pm Reply with quote
Jennie here!

Thanks for answering my question, that was one of the longest answers I think I've ever seen on this column. I hope it makes for interesting discussion for everyone.

I have to say though, I didn't expect my boyfriend to get so much flak, haha. That was an extremely simplified version of like an hour long conversation and I just picked out the most important bits to get to the point of the question I wanted to ask. I feel bad that it made him seem like such a jerk to everyone but I can see why now that I re-read the question x.x;

I do subscribe to CR but I absolutely do not like Hulu - too many ads! I will say I haven't watched EVERYTHING on CR but I'm running thin on shows that are interesting to me.

I think it's great that we have convenient legal streaming options (at least in the US) and I hope this trend continues and more and more becomes available, especially older shows.
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tasogarenootome



Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 593
PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 12:44 am Reply with quote
Love the production question and all the discussion its generated. Also, it reminded me so much of both Kuromi (as Justin mentioned) and that episode of Paranoia Agent that followed the animation studio.
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whiskeyii



Joined: 29 May 2013
Posts: 2242
PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 2:21 am Reply with quote
tasogarenootome wrote:
Love the production question and all the discussion its generated. Also, it reminded me so much of both Kuromi (as Justin mentioned) and that episode of Paranoia Agent that followed the animation studio.


Hi, I'm the one who asked that question--and yup, it was prompted by remembering that Paranoia Agent ep. It's amazing that a lot of stuff is still partially done by hand, though--reminds me of those old "Making of" sections in the Disney DVDs where some poor sap was stuck making what was basically a flipbook!

I thought that kind of work had gone out the window with the introduction of CG though, since I remembered seeing some sort of Production I.G. touring program that showed all the colors being added via Photoshop--I assumed all the drawing was done digitally as well. But then the OP of Tonari no Seki-kun had that hand-drawn flipbook in it, which threw me for a loop! o_O And I'd never thought of looking at it from an investor's POV before either. ^^; Gonna' have to check out Kuromi for sure!
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Zalis116
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Joined: 31 Mar 2005
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Location: Kazune City
PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 3:36 am Reply with quote
Juno016 wrote:
Even as a fansubber, I cannot find a truly good excuse to use most current fansubs over most current official streams if your goal is simply to "watch [an] anime." Especially if the show is available on practically every legal alternative in its uncut glory, with perfectly fine subtitles and high quality streaming, and FOR FREE.
I can find some excuses, mainly applying to CR's offerings, though your mileage may vary on how truly good they are. Like:

* Songs not translated. (Yes, I know this is initially due to time constraints with lyric translations approvals, but they generally don't bother to add them later)
* Many signs ignored, lackluster typesetting for signs that are translated.
* Subtitle timing flashes, flicker, and scenebleeds (very short gaps between lines, or lines beginning/ending right before/after a scene change).
* Fragmented timing and inane line divisions (sentences broken up at illogical points into rapidfire, short subtitles when they'd work better joined)
* If the ads don't crash the player and/or your browser, the player can accomplish lag and crashing on its own.
* Some shows have subtitles that're the exact opposite of "perfectly fine." Between the many typos, borked linebreaks, awkward writing, missing lines, and missing parts of lines, I pity anyone who tried to watch CR's error-ridden, nigh-incomprensible Natsu no Arashi! Akinai-chuu subs without already knowing Japanese, for instance.
* Pointlessly undertranslated terms, like "Masou Shoujo" in Is This a Zombie? or "Goku Uniform" and "Kamui" in Kill la Kill.
* Most streams are the TV broadcast versions, not the "glorious uncut" versions.
* The FOR FREE streams are generally 360p or 480p; more of "adequate quality" than "high quality."
* Ads at random/distracting spots. Ads are of course a needed part of free streaming, so I'm not complaining about the mere existence/presence of ads. But with all the logical places for commercials (beginning and end of episodes, before and after the OP/ED, mid-episode eyecatch), is there really a need to shoehorn in an ad break at the 17-18 minute mark, as many sites like to do?

Maybe not all of these things would bother people simply looking to "watch an anime," but seasoned viewers who're used to fansub offerings will pick up on some of them. And many of these subs, especially in CR's case, are done by former fansubbers with fansub software, so there's even less of an excuse for some of these missteps. How much of this decline of standards can be blamed on flash renderers?
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