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TarsTarkas



Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 5821
Location: Virginia, United States
PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 1:08 pm Reply with quote
animehermit wrote:
Soundmonkey44 wrote:
Expecting a comic to sell as much now as in the 1960's is ridiculous. It's a niche/specialty market pretty much like any other nerd culture thing these days.



The problem is that comics don't exist in a vacuum. Avengers made a billion dollars at the box office and comics are trending downwards? They should be selling a lot more, but then don't and that's a problem the industry has to face.


I have been buying comics since the 70's. Buying comics today is a lot more expensive than then. When I started they were 25 cents, now they average about $5. You could buy 4 comics for a dollar, now you have to spend 20 bucks for the same number. Even counting for inflation and time, that is still much more expensive.

So many just can't buy as much as they want. I have found myself only buying titles that I really want. Not so sure about DC (since I rarely read any of their titles), but Marvel I believe have hurt themselves, by not having the continuity of a long term creative and artistic team for each title. Everything is done in story arcs now. So when the teams change, and you don't like the art style, things suck. Unlike cigarettes, comic books are an easy habit to break, when you don't like what you are buying.

As to the ever increasing universal arcs, I also think they hurt more than help in the long term.
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Shenl742



Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Posts: 1524
PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 1:19 pm Reply with quote
I think Marvel's really improved quality wise with their "NOW!" initiative. They've really been experimenting with different storylines and art styles and just letting titles "breath" in general. It honestly feels like they've taken all the good will and attention the movies have brought and our using it to great effect. For the first time in a good while I'm really excited to be a fan of their stuff.
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davemerrill



Joined: 31 Jan 2011
Posts: 20
PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 6:46 pm Reply with quote
Like I said on the podcast, I'm a 70s kid and have fond memories of riding my bike over to the 7-11 to buy a comic book and a candy bar, or maybe some Wacky Packages, and if I spent more than fifty cents, it was a big day.

I haven't purchased a new Marvel comic book in years. I was never a DC guy so that's even longer. When the new books show up in the dollar bins a year later, what's the point in buying new comics? At some point they're just taking up space.

Most of the comics I buy these days are Archie and other related teen books from the sweet spot (1959-1970), Harvey kids' books, anything I don't already have by guys like Jack Kirby, the odd underground, and weird giveaway, promotional, educational comics.

Much of what we purchase turns up in our Stupid Comics feature over at Mister Kitty: http://www.misterkitty.org/extras/stupidcovers/index.html

I usually buy new stuff from guys like Jaime Hernandez, Pete Bagge, Charles Burns, Chris Ware, Joe Sacco, Dan Clowes. Kate Beaton is doing terrific work and Lisa Hanawalt has a new book coming out.
I am still catching up with KUROSAGI CORPSE DELIVERY SERVICE from Dark Horse. I'm a lazy manga reader. Vertical's BLACK JACK series was amazing and PLUTO was incredible. I always pick up old shojo/shonen manga from the 60s and 70s, especially weeklies.

I absolutely do NOT let the Diamond catalog tell me what I should or shouldn't be buying. There are so many amazing comics out there in the world that never even get on their radar - the corporate veil MUST be pierced. Left up to those guys we'd never get manga here at all, let alone UG or alternative comics.
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Soundmonkey44



Joined: 25 May 2010
Posts: 1243
PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 7:09 pm Reply with quote
@davemerrill: Thanks for the reply, I really do appreciate it. And yea, I agree, media industry in general is in a crazy state right now

@charredknight: Agreed, the best way to keep any industry going is to keep experimenting & trying new creative things to bring in an audience, and trying your best to expand your audience. And I agree companies that still operate like it's the 80s really need to wise up! *cough DC Comics Cough*

Edit: @shen I agree Marvel has been doing a lot better with the content of their comics then DC with the Ew, I mean New 52. I love a lot of Marvels books, the new Black Widow & Ms. Marvel books are great IMO. I also enjoy Thor, Loki, and I personally enjoyed the Superior Spider-Man Storyline, and am looking forward to see how if effects Peters life in the NEW ASM series, Daredevil is solid, She-Hulk is decent, And I like my comics having diverse art styles keeps things fresh!

In comparison, only DC book I really care about is Brian Azzarello's Wonder Woman. DC is just too stuck in the 80/90s IMO. And that's not a good thing.

Better comics, better movies, Marvel pretty much beats DC in every area accept cartoons as far as I'm concerned *although both are pretty hit & miss when it comes to video games*
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StudioToledo



Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Posts: 847
Location: Toledo, U.S.A.
PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2014 12:29 am Reply with quote
Quote:
Fandubs have gotten out of hand just because I don't think anyone is really trying anything new or unique its just "It would be so awesome if this character talked funny, and cussed a lot"

Pretty much taking curs from what's considered 'humor' these days shaped by the likes of prime time and Adult Swim. This is not humor. I can go back to something like " You Say Yamato" and find something brilliant in the writing there. Despite being 31 years old and being cheaply produced with what they could do in those analog days, the humor alone was on par with the likes of MAD Magazine satire.

davemerrill wrote:
Sales of GNs and digital comics have been moving in the opposite direction, but that's a whole different discussion. We're talking 32 page color floppy comics. Unless they get back to entertaining kids, they're on their way o-u-t.


And that's something I want to see again. It'll never happen.

davemerrill wrote:
Like I said on the podcast, I'm a 70s kid and have fond memories of riding my bike over to the 7-11 to buy a comic book and a candy bar, or maybe some Wacky Packages, and if I spent more than fifty cents, it was a big day.


Dave's childhood mirrors mine in the 80's when comics still had a spot on the bottom of the magazine rack at the local ma & pa drug store I would walk to daily. That was how the simple life had been before smart phones and tablets ruined our lives.


Quote:
Most of the comics I buy these days are Archie and other related teen books from the sweet spot (1959-1970), Harvey kids' books, anything I don't already have by guys like Jack Kirby, the odd underground, and weird giveaway, promotional, educational comics.

I too have relegated myself to tthis pastime well. You actually have better appreciation for classics that barely get reprinted. I already inherited more than enough comics from relatives and other opportunities.

Quote:
Much of what we purchase turns up in our Stupid Comics feature over at Mister Kitty: http://www.misterkitty.org/extras/stupidcovers/index.html

Open daily!

Oh by the way, check my blog if you can!
http://sobieniakcomics.blogspot.com/


Last edited by StudioToledo on Mon May 05, 2014 3:29 pm; edited 2 times in total
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enurtsol



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 14746
PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2014 12:59 am Reply with quote
America is less a comic book culture and more a book culture. While Marvel and DC movies don't considerably raise their corresponding comic books, movies like Jurassic Park, Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, Twilight, Hunger Games, Game of Thrones, etc. significantly do their books.

Or maybe it has to do that Marvel and DC movies don't have direct corresponding comic books - the movies are their own stories. The other movies are straight up adaptations of their books, while series like the Walking Dead and Avatar have helped their comics.

Anyways, for an idea how many these things sell, there's the lists on ICv2.
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ShaolinWolf



Joined: 02 Oct 2005
Posts: 96
PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2014 3:58 am Reply with quote
Great episode! I really enjoyed it a lot.
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davemerrill



Joined: 31 Jan 2011
Posts: 20
PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2014 12:12 pm Reply with quote
Chris, I think smartphones and tablets are going to take the place of the comic book, to be honest. The periodical comic book as we know it developed in the 30s and 40s as a cheap magazine available everywhere (corner newsstands, drugstores, candy stores, you name it) for a low price, paid for mostly through ads for X-Ray Spex, plastic army men, model kits, sea monkeys, and Hostess Fruit Pies. Children and bored adults didn't have TV, portable radio, or other electronic distractions, and comics, pulp magazines, and slicks filled that niche.

Many things changed in American society in the 50s and 60s but two things happened that impacted comic books - TV and cars. The automobile and the rise of suburbs meant that people drove places instead of walking or taking public transit, which meant no more stops on the way to work for the paper or at the candy store for comics. Families moved to suburbs away from corner stores and newsstands. TV proved to be an amazing replacement for many forms of entertainment, including comics. Add to this the Wertham comics scare in the mid 50s and a distributor failure in the late 50s and comics shrank from a widely popular mass media that entertained everybody with every conceivable genre of story - westerns, crime, love, teenage comedy, funny animals, super heroes, science fiction, horror, suspense, historical fiction, war, sports, and everything in between - to a vastly smaller pool of superheroes, romance, kids, and Archie.

Anyway, I think what we're gonna see are digitally distributed comics that kids will read via their tablets or smartphones. Cheap, easily delivered, easy to read, supported by advertising, you name it, the benefits are obvious. We're already moving towards this - try prying a device out of the hands of a 8 year old sometime - and it's a lot more efficient than physically printing a comic book, shipping it two or three places, and then forcing a customer to drive ten or fifteen minutes to the closest comic book store to spend $5 on 32 pages of story.

(The only wild card here is Archie Comics, who moved right into the digest-size books that are distributed nationally via grocery stores, Wal-marts, and drugstores, and whose sales continue to be healthy. And they're moving into digital distribution as well. Archie is smarter than he looks.)

Yeah, I think about this WAY TOO MUCH.
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Soundmonkey44



Joined: 25 May 2010
Posts: 1243
PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2014 3:39 pm Reply with quote
I agree that the younger crowd will most likely prefere digital comics, but I don't think physical comics will ever completly disappear, I could see companies setting up print on demand services where you (collectors) subscribe through their site and they mail you a physical copy.

But yeah I agree in the coming decades any form of physical media will become more & more a luxury item for rich nerds to show of to their friends. But I can't ever see DC & Marvel not doing physical Batman & Spider-Man comics in some way shape or form.

And I do agree Archie could potentially hold out longer since they still sale their books at places like, grocery stores, Wal-mart & Toys R Us.

I also think IDW & Booms kids books might have a shot since they also (to a degree) sell those at mass Retail, IDW has the MLP & TMNT fun packs & Boom sales their Kaboom! Adventure Time, Bravest Warriors & Regular Show Graphic novels at Wal-Mart.

But yeah. I don't think Comic shops will die off anytime soon. Maybe when I'm an old man, but yeah, that's just my 2 cents.
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TarsTarkas



Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 5821
Location: Virginia, United States
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 12:58 am Reply with quote
davemerrill wrote:
.....
I absolutely do NOT let the Diamond catalog tell me what I should or shouldn't be buying. There are so many amazing comics out there in the world that never even get on their radar - the corporate veil MUST be pierced. Left up to those guys we'd never get manga here at all, let alone UG or alternative comics.


If there is stuff distributed that Diamond doesn't not cover, is there some general place where you can find out what is coming out for these hidden gems.
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invalidname
Contributor



Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 2434
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 5:48 am Reply with quote
I wish I'd thought to send this in as a question: Is there any idea yet what impact there might be on AWA from the Braves building their new stadium right across the freeway from the Galleria?

Last Fall when the Braves announced the move, I thought they said they would be using Cumberland Mall for parking, shuttling fans up Cobb Pkwy to the stadium. Since the baseball season will still be going in September when AWA takes place, I wonder if 25,000 anime fans + 20,000 baseball fans contending for the same road and parking space is going to be a problem.

Then again, if the Braves are on the road that week, think of the cosplay opporunities: round robin tournament between the Big Windup!, Princess Nine, Little Busters! and Cross Game cosplayers.
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enurtsol



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 14746
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 6:03 am Reply with quote
invalidname wrote:
I wish I'd thought to send this in as a question: Is there any idea yet what impact there might be on AWA from the Braves building their new stadium right across the freeway from the Galleria?

Last Fall when the Braves announced the move, I thought they said they would be using Cumberland Mall for parking, shuttling fans up Cobb Pkwy to the stadium. Since the baseball season will still be going in September when AWA takes place, I wonder if 25,000 anime fans + 20,000 baseball fans contending for the same road and parking space is going to be a problem.

Then again, if the Braves are on the road that week, think of the cosplay opporunities: round robin tournament between the Big Windup!, Princess Nine, Little Busters! and Cross Game cosplayers.


Otakon once shared the 3-day weekend with the Baltimore Orioles home games vs. the NY Yankees (and you know Yanks are a big draw, even fans out of state), and they're right across the street from each other and share the same train, parking, hotels, and everything else. (We got tickets to both events.)
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davemerrill



Joined: 31 Jan 2011
Posts: 20
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 10:14 am Reply with quote
The impact that the new Braves stadium will have on the area is going to be kind of like that opening scene in AKIRA. That's my opinion anyways. I think it's going to take an already terrible traffic situation and make it intensely horrifying. What this means for AWA is that if AWA happens to happen on a game weekend, count on parking your car on Thursday and just not moving it on the day of the game. Or having somebody drop you off and pick you up when the con is over.

I think it's a bad deal for Cobb County, it's a bad deal for the city of Atlanta, and it's a bad deal for the Braves, but when sports teams show up hat in hand looking for tax money to fund their schemes, they usually find somebody willing to buy a pig in a poke.

Cobb's refusal to consider any sort of rail based mass transit has been a highlight of bad planning for decades, and their insistence that this new stadium will continue to ignore serious mass transit only brings their poor thinking into sharp relief.

The positives of this deal are that we'll be seeing more restaurants and hotels open in the immediate area, and we should be seeing some increased parking on the other side of 285. I don't know how it's going to affect already existing parking, which may start thinking about charging fees all the time, whether there's a game or not.
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davemerrill



Joined: 31 Jan 2011
Posts: 20
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 10:27 am Reply with quote
TarsTarkas wrote:
davemerrill wrote:
.....
I absolutely do NOT let the Diamond catalog tell me what I should or shouldn't be buying. There are so many amazing comics out there in the world that never even get on their radar - the corporate veil MUST be pierced. Left up to those guys we'd never get manga here at all, let alone UG or alternative comics.


If there is stuff distributed that Diamond doesn't not cover, is there some general place where you can find out what is coming out for these hidden gems.


These days your best source for off-the-beaten-track comics news is the Comics Journal (www.tcj.com), who have upgraded their website into a fairly good simulacrum of what their magazine was in the old daze. There's a columnist named Ryan Holmberg who writes for TCJ that does amazing work uncovering the hidden gems and influences of manga and gekiga, and the blog at TCJ (http://www.tcj.com/category/blog/) is a pretty good roundup of what's going on not just in the Marvel/DC world but historical creators, alternative comics, strips, European and South American and Asian comics, webcomics, art comics, and magazine cartoonists, and they're continuing the magazine's tradition of critical thinking and holding publishers to some sort of standard of quality and professionalism.

Tom Spurgeon over at The Comics Reporter does a good job as well, covering a lot of items TCJ misses. He's got more of a mainstream focus and excellent Euro-comics coverage and he's worth keeping up with. (http://comicsreporter.com/)

And of course your local small press comics show will feature creators of every skill level and intent producing work that runs the gamut from horrible to awe-inspiring. Get out there and find it!
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StudioToledo



Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Posts: 847
Location: Toledo, U.S.A.
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 3:46 pm Reply with quote
davemerrill wrote:
Chris, I think smartphones and tablets are going to take the place of the comic book, to be honest.

At this point I suppose (though it's gotten to where I refer to as disposable entertainment purely on the reliance of the digital medium over print, but then I suppose it's just me feeling cranky over the whole thing seeing the impermanence of it all. We just won't have too many stories of kids being upset their moms threw out their comic book stash while they're at college.

Quote:
The periodical comic book as we know it developed in the 30s and 40s as a cheap magazine available everywhere (corner newsstands, drugstores, candy stores, you name it) for a low price, paid for mostly through ads for X-Ray Spex, plastic army men, model kits, sea monkeys, and Hostess Fruit Pies.

That's true, and those of us who fell for them always.

Quote:
Children and bored adults didn't have TV, portable radio, or other electronic distractions, and comics, pulp magazines, and slicks filled that niche.

True too.

Quote:
Many things changed in American society in the 50s and 60s but two things happened that impacted comic books - TV and cars. The automobile and the rise of suburbs meant that people drove places instead of walking or taking public transit, which meant no more stops on the way to work for the paper or at the candy store for comics.

Is it no wonder I still don't have a driver's license? I love public transit and wished more would support that personally (especially living in a declining American city like mine).

Quote:
Families moved to suburbs away from corner stores and newsstands. TV proved to be an amazing replacement for many forms of entertainment, including comics. Add to this the Wertham comics scare in the mid 50s and a distributor failure in the late 50s and comics shrank from a widely popular mass media that entertained everybody with every conceivable genre of story - westerns, crime, love, teenage comedy, funny animals, super heroes, science fiction, horror, suspense, historical fiction, war, sports, and everything in between - to a vastly smaller pool of superheroes, romance, kids, and Archie.

Funny animals need to come back, plain and simple!

Quote:
Anyway, I think what we're gonna see are digitally distributed comics that kids will read via their tablets or smartphones. Cheap, easily delivered, easy to read, supported by advertising, you name it, the benefits are obvious. We're already moving towards this - try prying a device out of the hands of a 8 year old sometime - and it's a lot more efficient than physically printing a comic book, shipping it two or three places, and then forcing a customer to drive ten or fifteen minutes to the closest comic book store to spend $5 on 32 pages of story.

I suppose (since kids do not have the same zeal I had for wanting to go to the drug store daily). I suppose I'll just have to get use to those gestures on tablets that feel so foreign to me like pinching if I have to see these things zoomed up and all.

Quote:
(The only wild card here is Archie Comics, who moved right into the digest-size books that are distributed nationally via grocery stores, Wal-marts, and drugstores, and whose sales continue to be healthy. And they're moving into digital distribution as well. Archie is smarter than he looks.)

Yeah, I think about this WAY TOO MUCH.

Not smart enough to be killed off (but then I'm off the subject here).

Soundmonkey44 wrote:
I agree that the younger crowd will most likely prefere digital comics, but I don't think physical comics will ever completly disappear, I could see companies setting up print on demand services where you (collectors) subscribe through their site and they mail you a physical copy.

There's always an interest I'm sure in collections of that sort (Trade paperbacks of course served that purpose). I suppose if after a number of years that particular work was deemed worthy for a P-O-D release, so be it. Of course they might have to sweeten such deals with added material like preliminary drawings or anything that could be rounded up for exclusivity.

Quote:
And I do agree Archie could potentially hold out longer since they still sale their books at places like, grocery stores, Wal-mart & Toys R Us.

It's weird they managed to make it this long.

Quote:
I also think IDW & Booms kids books might have a shot since they also (to a degree) sell those at mass Retail, IDW has the MLP & TMNT fun packs & Boom sales their Kaboom! Adventure Time, Bravest Warriors & Regular Show Graphic novels at Wal-Mart.

I suppose you can think of them as today's Gold Key for the most part.
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