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Hey, Answerman! [2006-10-06]


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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor


Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 9902
Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 9:34 am Reply with quote
Mohawk52 wrote:
Kilgamayan wrote:
Shota is the male equivalent of loli.
I was under the impression it was the other way round. ie female equivalent of loli. Wink

You confused Loli/Shota (prepubescent girl/boy) with Lolicon/Shotacon (those who have a complex towards Loli/Shota).

Most Lolicon are male and most Shotacon are female, respectively, but of course not all of them are like that. It's just heterosexuals outnumber homosexuals.
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Wolverine Princess



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1100
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 7:20 pm Reply with quote
dormcat wrote:

Most Lolicon are male and most Shotacon are female, respectively, but of course not all of them are like that. It's just heterosexuals outnumber homosexuals.

Really? The number of male shotacon fans I've met outstrips the females by far, although this may have a lot to do with the fact that you can never really tell who's male or female on the internet. (This hold true especially in sub-fandoms related to BL where nearly every teenage girl pretends to be male at least once. I'll admit I've certainly done it before.) And in today's Ask John article, the author states that Boku no Pico's target audience is adult males.
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omar235



Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 1572
Location: Florida, Jacksonvile
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 7:41 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
(This hold true especially in sub-fandoms related to BL where nearly every teenage girl pretends to be male at least once.


EDIT: Why would girls be ashamed of liking boy love that?


Last edited by omar235 on Wed Oct 11, 2006 8:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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darkchibi07



Joined: 15 Oct 2003
Posts: 5469
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 7:44 pm Reply with quote
omar235 wrote:
Quote:
(This hold true especially in sub-fandoms related to BL where nearly every teenage girl pretends to be male at least once.


What does BL stand for?


Abbreviation for boy's love. And Boku no Pico is aimed for guys?!! Shocked
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Steve007101



Joined: 22 Mar 2005
Posts: 165
Location: IL, USA
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 7:59 pm Reply with quote
Well, what do you know, another rant and/or just discussion we really already did, twice.

Richard J. probably said it best on the content issue of material like this back on the first page, it's only as bad as you want to react to it. It's out there but so what, people need to get over it, it doesn't affect you unless you want it to. Obviously Zac again takes a conservative standpoint (litteral definition, not political in case someone here wants to whine about it, politics are just politics). I'm not going to deny that I don't share the same view of what's appropriate now and that probably most people would agree but the truth just is stuff like that is just going to become more and more accepted as time passes just like all other parts of the human condition as it would seem. Not to say that it's always the right direction necessarily, but relatively speaking and in terms of liberty it certainly is.

And for the record, yeah, I completely agree with lollercoaster et all, Tsubasa generally was a sad excuse for a CLAMP manga.
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Wolverine Princess



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1100
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 2:07 am Reply with quote
omar235 wrote:
Quote:
(This hold true especially in sub-fandoms related to BL where nearly every teenage girl pretends to be male at least once.


EDIT: Why would girls be ashamed of liking boy love that?

It's not a matter of feeling ashamed, girls pretend to be boys on the 'net just because it's loads of fun. To physically live out their fantasies of being gay males whisked away by suave, incredibly sexy older men would require extensive (and extremely expensive) surgery, and pretending to be cute little gay boys on the internet is a healthy way to explore their sexuality. In most cases it's very easy to pick out who is a real boy and who's just a pre-pubescent girl pretending, as these "fakers" nearly always type in pink fonts, commonly use cute, effeminate emoticons like =^.___.^= and ^_~, and end all of their sentences with little made-up suffixes like "nyoro~n" and "puko-puko." It's a great learning experience in internet etiquette, as I was doing the exact same thing in other forums until I came to ANN, did a search for the word "yaoi," and read through many old forum conversations about how other people find these girls to be incredibly annoying and how they "ruin everything." Witnessing other crazed fangirls act like total dick-heads on ANN (see all posts by "Karorin") was a big wake-up call for me. If I didn't read through that very thread I linked to, I'd probably still be typing in a bright-pink font right now, nyoro~n. ^_~ ♂♥
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Zalis116
Moderator


Joined: 31 Mar 2005
Posts: 6867
Location: Kazune City
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 4:50 am Reply with quote
cardcaptormanda wrote:
Zalis116 wrote:
Plus, if I'm to believe what I've read on these forums in the past, many yaoi fangirls will get into a series not because of its story/art/music/etc., but just because there's some hot male-male slash pairing to fantasize about, and I don't think that's cool.

I'm not trying to argue with you or your opinions in general, but I'd just like to point out that there are plenty of guys out there who get into series just because it might have one or more good looking women or a horde of pretty school girls, or girls who will watch a series just for the bishounen. I don't really see how that's any different than yaoi fangirls (most of whom are actually shounen-ai fangirls and would probably put off by actual yaoi) getting into a show just for the shounen-ai content.
Point well-taken. After all, I can't imagine any reason to watch stuff like Daphne in the Brilliant Blue or Najica Blitz Tactics for any reason other than hot girls and fanservice, though I'd like to think that Girls Bravo is the only non-hentai series I've watched mainly for the hot chick factor. However, the problem isn't watching them for shounen-ai content (and yes, I realize I was incorrectly using "yaoi" and "shounen-ai" interchangeably when they're not the same *was lazy* ) ; it's liking them just because there's imagined shounen-ai content that's a problem. Sure, pairings like Guts & Grifith in Berserk, Shinji & Kaworu in NGE, and Daisuke & Hiwatori in DN Angel are at least somewhat implied by the series themselves, but some of the pairings that come out of some fandoms like FMA are mind-warping...EdxRoy? "Elricest"? W - t - f. *shudders*
That's the kind of stuff that we hetero male fans view as "corruption" or "ruining." Being a shounen-ai fan and liking a series for actual shounen-ai content or hot guys is fine; at least that's liking a series for its actual content and not its fanfic idea potential. Then again, who am I to say why people should or shouldn't like something? If these same fangirls I'm complaining about buy the DVDs, it's all good Shocked
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HeeroTX



Joined: 15 Jul 2002
Posts: 2046
Location: Austin, TX
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 2:10 pm Reply with quote
Wolverine Princess wrote:
It's not a matter of feeling ashamed, girls pretend to be boys on the 'net just because it's loads of fun. To physically live out their fantasies of being gay males whisked away by suave, incredibly sexy older men would require extensive (and extremely expensive) surgery, and pretending to be cute little gay boys on the internet is a healthy way to explore their sexuality.

Please forgive my obtuseness, but... WHY?!?
I especially find this odd since often (enough) we're talking (I guess) about girls pretending to be a gay guy being whisked away by a guy who in the source material IS NOT GAY. WHY?!? (granted, sometimes it's 2 guys who in the material ARE gay, but still I don't get why you would recast yourself (assuming you DON'T have gender identity issues) as the opposite sex JUST so you can be gay with another member of that sex in your fantasy)

Confused
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Wolverine Princess



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1100
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 3:48 pm Reply with quote
HeeroTX wrote:
Wolverine Princess wrote:
It's not a matter of feeling ashamed, girls pretend to be boys on the 'net just because it's loads of fun. To physically live out their fantasies of being gay males whisked away by suave, incredibly sexy older men would require extensive (and extremely expensive) surgery, and pretending to be cute little gay boys on the internet is a healthy way to explore their sexuality.

Please forgive my obtuseness, but... WHY?!?
I especially find this odd since often (enough) we're talking (I guess) about girls pretending to be a gay guy being whisked away by a guy who in the source material IS NOT GAY. WHY?!? (granted, sometimes it's 2 guys who in the material ARE gay, but still I don't get why you would recast yourself (assuming you DON'T have gender identity issues) as the opposite sex JUST so you can be gay with another member of that sex in your fantasy)

Confused

That's just it, it's a fantasy. It doesn't have to necessarily make sense, it's just what a lot of people do when they’re head-over-heels obsessed with their hobby. (And this is an extremely common practice among girls.)

And if you still think that that the majority of BL is all fanfiction where the original characters aren't gay, you've been hiding under a rock for the past year or so when actual BL (like the stuff from DMP, for example) started gaining popularity outside Japan.

EDIT: Screwy quote


Last edited by Wolverine Princess on Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
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HellKorn



Joined: 03 Oct 2006
Posts: 1669
Location: Columbus, OH
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 6:27 pm Reply with quote
Just to add my two cents into this since my original posts in this thread were deleted last Friday due to the forum crash.

Steroid wrote:
There is a difference. We shouldn't bash what other people do to enjoy themselves, by themselves for their own purpose, with only consenting parties involved. But we should bash the opinion that people should give up what they like and become more normal or fly their flags a little lower.


Certainly there's conformity (which I do not condone in the slightest), but there's also something called common courtesy when it comes to not acting out on every single urge that you have, and respect also files along with it.

Quote:
So, if we have yaoi fangirls who like to squeal and scream and run around and profess their love for the characters in the yaoi anime they watch, that's people enjoying themselves.


So if someone cuts himself and does harsh drugs like heroin we can give them the "A-OK!" and leave it at that?

Mind you I'm not implying that yaoi fangirls can be equated to suicidal teenagers and drug addicts, but that is a comparison to consider.

Quote:
If we have anti-yaoi-fangirl people who get annoyed and tell them to shut up, that's people trying to interfere with enjoyment.


So obnoxiousness should be tolerated?

... What kind of inane view is that?
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 7912
Location: Anime News Network Technodrome
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 6:56 pm Reply with quote
Steroid wrote:

There is a difference. We shouldn't bash what other people do to enjoy themselves, by themselves for their own purpose, with only consenting parties involved. But we should bash the opinion that people should give up what they like and become more normal or fly their flags a little lower.

So, if we have yaoi fangirls who like to squeal and scream and run around and profess their love for the characters in the yaoi anime they watch, that's people enjoying themselves. If we have anti-yaoi-fangirl people who get annoyed and tell them to shut up, that's people trying to interfere with enjoyment.


You don't seem to understand the principle behind many of the amendments of the constitution.

Your right to be disruptive and annoying and loud ends at my ears. Your right to throw a punch ends at my face.

You can't just do whatever you like. What about the enjoyment of people who want quiet restraint? What about the enjoyment of the people who have sensitive ears?

You seem to disregard those people; the most important people to you are whoever's acting out in the way that most irritates or annoys or disrupts other peoples' enjoyment. Your argument makes absolutely no sense. I get what you're saying, but you take everything you say into this total nonsense realm of utter lunacy.
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Steroid



Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 329
Location: At home, where all good hikikomori should be
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:12 pm Reply with quote
HellKorn wrote:
Steroid wrote:
There is a difference. We shouldn't bash what other people do to enjoy themselves, by themselves for their own purpose, with only consenting parties involved. But we should bash the opinion that people should give up what they like and become more normal or fly their flags a little lower.


Certainly there's conformity (which I do not condone in the slightest), but there's also something called common courtesy when it comes to not acting out on every single urge that you have, and respect also files along with it.

But what does common courtesy do for the person who is more interested in acting out their urges than in harmony? Let's say I'm a yaoi fangirl, and I want to act out and squeal. What does it do for me to restrain myself? It might convince other people to restrain their urges, but that doesn't bother me.

Quote:
So if someone cuts himself and does harsh drugs like heroin we can give them the "A-OK!" and leave it at that?

Hurting yourself is not wrong, just stupid. Give people the facts, let them make their own decisions, and get out of the way.

Quote:
So obnoxiousness should be tolerated?

... What kind of inane view is that?

Yes. We are not all one family, or one group. We are a collection of individuals, all acting in our own interests. When someone projects that interest in the face of the general populace, it should be celebrated.

Zac wrote:
You don't seem to understand the principle behind many of the amendments of the constitution.

I understand much of the constitution. I do not agree with it all.

Quote:
Your right to be disruptive and annoying and loud ends at my ears. Your right to throw a punch ends at my face.

Very true, but as I've said before, my right to throw a punch exists to the limit of your face, and not before. Unless I've actually done damage to you, not just irked you, it's still correct to do it.

Quote:
You can't just do whatever you like. What about the enjoyment of people who want quiet restraint? What about the enjoyment of the people who have sensitive ears?

Well, it's something of a matter of place. If we're talking about a yaoi fangirl squealing at an anime convention, it's a matter for the convention organizers to judge. Should they favor peace and quiet, they can turn away the fangirls. If we're talking about a fangirl joining a web board to squeal in text, it's for the site runners. But if it's in public, then unless damage is done, no retribution should be taken.

Quote:
You seem to disregard those people; the most important people to you are whoever's acting out in the way that most irritates or annoys or disrupts other peoples' enjoyment. Your argument makes absolutely no sense. I get what you're saying, but you take everything you say into this total nonsense realm of utter lunacy.

Yes, I favor the doers over the stand-stillers, the new to the status quo. And I believe that a single person's enjoyment is more important that many peoples' peace. I believe in being narrow and deep. To me, life is about achieving happiness, not avoiding pain.
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Steve007101



Joined: 22 Mar 2005
Posts: 165
Location: IL, USA
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:26 pm Reply with quote
Man... the times, the customs.

Quote:
Quote:

Your right to be disruptive and annoying and loud ends at my ears. Your right to throw a punch ends at my face.

Very true, but as I've said before, my right to throw a punch exists to the limit of your face, and not before. Unless I've actually done damage to you, not just irked you, it's still correct to do it.


That about sums it up. For crying outloud, we're talking about a medium of entertainment here, not even an act infringing apon someone else's rights, lets just leave it at that.

People can see what they want to for themselves but they can't make other people watch what they want to, or not watch what they don't want them to. Loli, Shota, or whatever.

Sure if someone wanted to expose anything unsightly it would create a stir but only for a time, things change, acceptance grows.
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luffypirate



Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 3186
PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 1:53 am Reply with quote
those karorin posts were funny. haha what a good read!
someone give me good yuri titles. that shit is so hot ;D
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Cloe
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Joined: 18 Feb 2004
Posts: 2728
Location: Los Angeles, CA
PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 6:33 am Reply with quote
Steroid wrote:
Let's say I'm a yaoi fangirl, and I want to act out and squeal. What does it do for me to restrain myself?

Go ahead an squeal; nobody can stop you from squealing anyway. But I'll exercise my right to tell a person when they're annoying the hell out of me. Because, you know, what good does it do for me to restrain myself?
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