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The X Button - Extravagant Excitement


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meiam



Joined: 23 Jun 2013
Posts: 2778
PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 10:46 am Reply with quote
lostrune wrote:
ikillchicken wrote:
Nintendo's abysmal sales numbers with the Wii U are a fact though.


Speaking of which, maybe someone can clue me in why we take turns bashing the Wii U pinata when it has a significant sales lead over the Xbox One in both hardware and software sales. Does Microsoft have diplomatic immunity or something? Laughing If the Wii U has abysmal numbers then the X-Bone must be really hurtin'.


On that note, I always like to point out that both the XB1 and Wii U ship by default with non default controller (kinect and gamepad) but the PS4 doesn't. Guess which one is doing really well and has a significant lead on the other two? C'mon nintendo, you know you wanna drop that gamepad. But seriously, a 125$-150$ wii u would go a long way toward helping wii u sales.
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Beatdigga



Joined: 26 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 10:47 am Reply with quote
Well, Xbone used to anyway.
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Beatdigga



Joined: 26 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 10:51 am Reply with quote
Dessa wrote:
ikillchicken wrote:
Their family friendly image doesn't appeal to most serious gamers (some, but definitely not most)


Quote:
I like Nintendo. I like their games. I am a Nintendo fan. I'm sadly one of the only people here who seems capable of looking past their personal preference and accepting the reality that most modern gamers don't really find that appealing. That's not my opinion.


No, all of that is your opinion, and, in my opinion, it's completely off base. I have tons of gamers in my friends, on my friends list, in my regulars at work, and the only company that anyone ever gets excited for is Nintendo. Sure, the Wii U isn't doing as well, but the 3DS? The 3DS is the handheld to have. Sure, there's commentary on a Vita game every once in a while. But floods of 3DS talk. Other than 3DS games and Mario Kart 8, as far as I'm aware, the only other video games that came out in the last 1-2 months was apparently Watch Dogs and 1001 Spikes. Because no one cares about anything else, and even then, no one talks about those. Not when they can talk about Nintendo releases instead.


Honestly, I find your use of the term "serious gamers" offensive. I'm a serious gamer. I've put hundreds of dollars into my game collection. I play games just about every day. The total number of games that even interest me that have been announced for PS4/XBOne, that aren't being released on a different system? 3. That's it. Entwined, Abzu, and Kingdom Hearts 3. There's more in that for Vita, but I dislike the Vita as a system.

The number of games for 3DS (which I have) and Wii U (which I don't)? I've lost count, there's too many.


Well clearly the books say otherwise.

I like Nintendo. First gen GBA. Bought a Wii. I just think their recent actions are borderline self destructive to the point I'm begging them to be a pure software developer or at least put their classic library on iOS.
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iloveturkey



Joined: 09 Jun 2014
Posts: 70
PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 1:27 pm Reply with quote
Dessa wrote:
No, all of that is your opinion, and, in my opinion, it's completely off base. I have tons of gamers in my friends, on my friends list, in my regulars at work, and the only company that anyone ever gets excited for is Nintendo. Sure, the Wii U isn't doing as well, but the 3DS? The 3DS is the handheld to have. Sure, there's commentary on a Vita game every once in a while. But floods of 3DS talk. Other than 3DS games and Mario Kart 8, as far as I'm aware, the only other video games that came out in the last 1-2 months was apparently Watch Dogs and 1001 Spikes. Because no one cares about anything else, and even then, no one talks about those. Not when they can talk about Nintendo releases instead.


Honestly, I find your use of the term "serious gamers" offensive. I'm a serious gamer. I've put hundreds of dollars into my game collection. I play games just about every day. The total number of games that even interest me that have been announced for PS4/XBOne, that aren't being released on a different system? 3. That's it. Entwined, Abzu, and Kingdom Hearts 3. There's more in that for Vita, but I dislike the Vita as a system.

The number of games for 3DS (which I have) and Wii U (which I don't)? I've lost count, there's too many.


gloverrandal summed it up perfectly. Serious gamer is a crutch that stems from insecurities of the demographic. They've internalized their hobby to make up for their lack of personality and fear any dissenting attribute that they may be confronted with. The same way people will insist they're a hardcore gamer and look down upon the dirty casuals. The true irony of the whole mentality is the so-called hardcore games they defend have been worked through so many focus testing groups and marketing agencies to the point that they're the most safest, predictable, easiest, and instant-gratification delivering titles out there one can choose to play. Indeed, Watchdogs, a carbon copy of Grand Theft Auto. Instead, the definition of hardcore is generally measured in the amount of gratuitous violence and marketing appeal the title has, and how much it can reinforce their status as the alpha male dominate of the industry. It's certainly not the level of difficulty or challenge a game has that determines if it's serious or hardcore nature, because otherwise games like Monster Hunter and Dark Souls would be far popular with that crowd. In fact, it's their difficulty and challenge that causes those games to remain on a more niche scale.

I boldly say the one flub Nintendo did at their E3 presentation was their acknowledgement of the competitive Smash community. Just seeing their rants and complaints and the bitter resentment that oozed out of their mouths every time they spoke really sucks out all the charm out of an otherwise fun game. Serious gamers indeed.
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Rahxephon91



Joined: 08 Jun 2003
Posts: 1804
Location: Park Forest IL.
PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 2:03 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
No, all of that is your opinion, and, in my opinion, it's completely off base. I have tons of gamers in my friends, on my friends list, in my regulars at work, and the only company that anyone ever gets excited for is Nintendo. Sure, the Wii U isn't doing as well, but the 3DS? The 3DS is the handheld to have. Sure, there's commentary on a Vita game every once in a while. But floods of 3DS talk. Other than 3DS games and Mario Kart 8, as far as I'm aware, the only other video games that came out in the last 1-2 months was apparently Watch Dogs and 1001 Spikes. Because no one cares about anything else, and even then, no one talks about those. Not when they can talk about Nintendo releases instead.
Thats nice that it's your opinion and all, but that's all anecdotal evidence. No one I know talks about Nintendo, but instead talks about stuff like Grand Knights History and Ys 7. I guess that means obscure PSP rpgs are whats popular?

The sales don't lie and the 3DS is not some juggernaut here. I hasn't done terribly, but it certainly is'nt the handheld. No that's probably the iphone.

The Wii U has done terribly. A console where the only "good" games are Nintendo games.

It's not like wii u or 3DS software sells have been amazing, sure Nintendo made titles still sell well, but not like on previous platforms.

Chicken is talking in broad matters and he's saying largely that whatever Nintendo is doing hasn't caught on with a lot of gamers that much. It's not really an opinion, it's a fact. Outliers like you don't change that.
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Lavnovice9



Joined: 23 Oct 2012
Posts: 275
PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 5:00 pm Reply with quote
Rahxephon91 wrote:
The sales don't lie and the 3DS is not some juggernaut here. I hasn't done terribly, but it certainly is'nt the handheld. No that's probably the iphone.

The Wii U has done terribly. A console where the only "good" games are Nintendo games.

It's not like wii u or 3DS software sells have been amazing, sure Nintendo made titles still sell well, but not like on previous platforms.

Chicken is talking in broad matters and he's saying largely that whatever Nintendo is doing hasn't caught on with a lot of gamers that much. It's not really an opinion, it's a fact. Outliers like you don't change that.


Well I guess that just answers the question if you're trolling or not by trying to downplay Nintendo at every turn you can. You messed up with this post though. You can downplay the Wii U and blend in with other people and be subtle, but now when you try to actively downplay the 3DS which has sold over 42 million units then you're schtick just becomes incredibly obvious. 42 million units is not a success? You're so desperate to discredit it you compare it to a phone? Iif 42 million units in a few years isn't considered successful then modern gaming is even more screwed then I thought. Here I thought Pokemon and Mario and stuff could be classified as juggernauts but I guess not..
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Rahxephon91



Joined: 08 Jun 2003
Posts: 1804
Location: Park Forest IL.
PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 5:20 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Well I guess that just answers the question if you're trolling or not by trying to downplay Nintendo at every turn you can. You messed up with this post though.
Not of you actually read whats being said and can follow the conversation. ikillchicken is proposing that the serious/core/whatever gamer is'nt latching on Nintendo. That's certainly true for the Wii U and it's somewhat true for the 3DS

Quote:
. You can downplay the Wii U and blend in with other people and be subtle, but now when you try to actively downplay the 3DS which has sold over 42 million units then you're schtick just becomes incredibly obvious.
I'm not sure how and what I'm blending into. I'm not sure what shtick I was hiding? That I'm not a fan of Nintendo? No I wasn't hiding that. I don't think hiding is me blatanly saying "I don't like Nintendo". It's about as subtle as your extreme bias for Japanese anything which equates to anything western=bad.

Quote:
. 42 million units is not a success? You're so desperate to discredit it you compare it to a phone?
I'm not sure why you're pushing the worldwide numbers? The 3DS sales in America(which we've been talking about) are 11.5 million.

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/3ds-sales-reach-11-5-million-in-us-alone-nintendo-calls-system-a-powerhouse/1100-6417058/

I don't know where you got your number, but thats not what is in America. WHICH IS WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT. Nobody cares about Japan here. Though to a lesser degree some of this applies to Japan.

Since I know you didn't read and wanted to jump at a moments notice, I have to say that nowhere did I say it did terribly. What I said is that it is'nt a juggernaut and it is'nt. Compare the sales to the DS. It's done worse compared to the DS. That's true.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/07/03/nintendo-3ds-momentum-weak-in-us-europe

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/pdf/2008/080424e.pdf#page=22

In the same amount of time(4 years basically) the 3DS has not sold half of what the DS did here.

It really has nothing to do with "desperation", just actually knowing whats going on. The 3DS has done fine, but its not the be all thing.

Since apparently you don't know whats going on, I'm happy to inform you the main cited reason for the lower handheld sales this turn around is because of mobile phones. People, kids, whatever have proceeded to chose phones for a variety of reasons over dedicated consoles. Mobile gaming has gotten bigger and continues to show even more rapid growth. This conversation is all about the problems Nintendo has faced and anyone who wan'ts to say "oh the 3DS hasn't" is dead wrong. But of course since you're a Nintendo/Japanese fanboy you won't accept that.

Quote:
Here I thought Pokemon and Mario and stuff could be classified as juggernauts but I guess not..
I don't believe I said anything about these games. I said the 3DS is'nt some juggernaut. It is'nt. It's done significantly worse then the DS.
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DuskyPredator
It...it's not like I post for you or anything!It...it's not like I post for you or anything!


Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 13920
Location: Brisbane, Australia
PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 11:53 pm Reply with quote
Rahxephon91 wrote:
The sales don't lie and the 3DS is not some juggernaut here. I hasn't done terribly, but it certainly is'nt the handheld. No that's probably the iphone.

So what are the PS Vita's sales?

And yeah so what if IPhone is outselling, it has a clear advantage to mostly casual gamers, which may make up a majority of people who play games now, but it does not mean 3DS sales to more usual gamers is bad. Why else would there be so much interest in E3?
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Rahxephon91



Joined: 08 Jun 2003
Posts: 1804
Location: Park Forest IL.
PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 12:18 am Reply with quote
Quote:

So what are the PS Vita's sales?
Bad........?

What does the Vita have to do with anything?


Quote:
And yeah so what if IPhone is outselling, it has a clear advantage to mostly casual gamers, which may make up a majority of people who play games now, but it does not mean 3DS sales to more usual gamers is bad.
Huh? What are you talking about?

This really has nothing to do with what I said. The point about mobile is that it's eaten a significant part of Nintendo's handheld pie.

Quote:

Why else would there be so much interest in E3?
I don't know what your point is?

Also was there much interests at E3? They announced that Valkyria Chronicles like game and what else? Persona Q was there I guess. Can't think of much else going on with the system at this years E3.
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Stuart Smith



Joined: 13 Jan 2013
Posts: 1298
PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 12:23 am Reply with quote
DuskyPredator wrote:
And yeah so what if IPhone is outselling, it has a clear advantage to mostly casual gamers, which may make up a majority of people who play games now, but it does not mean 3DS sales to more usual gamers is bad. Why else would there be so much interest in E3?


The issue of people comparing mobile gaming to handhelds is always odd. I'm not sure if people should be lumping in games like Angry Birds with games like Fire Emblem: Awakening, Persona, Monster Hunter, or Pokemon. It seems like those are aimed at two entirely different audiences and are two entirely different kinds of games here. Mobile games being a game you generally play for a minute or two while waiting for a bus versus 3DS or Vita game you can sink an entire day into.

If the iPhone is outselling the 3DS, I have a hunch it has to do with the fact that it's a phone. A communication device pretty much everyone in a first world country needs to have. I'm unsure how many people buy an iPhone specifically so they can play Temple Runner, though. Trying to compare the two seems ludicrous. I can't imagine an RPG enthusiast being satisfied with making the switch for Angry Birds. I wonder what kind of games people who switched from a 3DS to an iPhone were playing to begin with, perhaps something like Brain Age? The mobile scene utterly lacks the kind of games that are usually found on handhelds, though.

-Stuart Smith
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Rahxephon91



Joined: 08 Jun 2003
Posts: 1804
Location: Park Forest IL.
PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 12:45 am Reply with quote
Quote:
The issue of people comparing mobile gaming to handhelds is always odd. I'm not sure if people should be lumping in games like Angry Birds with games like Fire Emblem: Awakening, Persona, Monster Hunter, or Pokemon. It seems like those are aimed at two entirely different audiences and are two entirely different kinds of games here. Mobile games being a game you generally play for a minute or two while waiting for a bus versus 3DS or Vita game you can sink an entire day into.
There's no issue. No one has compared the quality or types games. That's not really the debate. The point of bringing up mobile gaming is just to highlight that it's effected the market.

It's almost ironic here. You claim mobile gaming is for gaming on the buss or whatever.

Isn't that what the point of a handheld system was? To bring it with you on the go. That's why good handheld games are designed with a structure you can easily pick up and then leave?

Quote:
If the iPhone is outselling the 3DS, I have a hunch it has to do with the fact that it's a phone.
Well gee whiz you've figured it out. Why don't you think people are picking up 3DS as much. Well golly maybe it's because the phone they have almost as a requirement already plays games. Already does what millions of kids, parents, whoever bought the DS for.

Quote:
I'm unsure how many people buy an iPhone specifically so they can play Temple Runner, though.
....hmmm I don't believe anyone said they did...

Quote:
Trying to compare the two seems ludicrous.
I don't believe anyone is actually comparing them. Just talking how mobile has eaten a chunk of Nintendo's handheld pie.
Quote:

I can't imagine an RPG enthusiast being satisfied with making the switch for Angry Birds.
Maybe not, but maybe they'll be happy with the iOS version of FF6, FF3, FF4, FF5, The World Ends With You, those Chaos Rings games by Media Vision the developer of Wild Arms, The port of Shin Megami Tensei 1 that actually got an English release recently, Chrono Trigger, DQVIII, Hitman Go, Rise of Mana, Deus Ex The Fall, GUARDIAN CROSS, and FINAL FANTASY DIMENSIONS. Puzzle and Dragons makes Gung Ho what like millions everyday. Capcom has a new Breath of Fire coming. Matsuno has a new game. That Monster Hunter iOS thing has done very well in Japan. It's no wonder a lot of Japanese developers have been making mobile games.

Quote:
I wonder what kind of games people who switched from a 3DS to an iPhone were playing to begin with, perhaps something like Brain Age? The mobile scene utterly lacks the kind of games that are usually found on handhelds, though.
You seem to actually be pretty ignorant of whats on mobile. Many Japanese companies like Square have made mobile a huge part of thier development system and have made plenty of games on it. This is'nt even a new trend. I'm not sure how you missed that lots of Japanese developers have been moving to mobile.

You seem to paint the scene as someone went out shopping for a handheld and had to chose between a 3DS, Vita, or a ios device. That didn't happen. No they never went shopping because they already had the ios device and it did what they use to buy a handheld for.

But these are all exaggerations and many different people and varieties of situations out there. The point is that mobile deceives has impacted dedicated handhelds and that is no doubt part of the reason they haven't sold as well as thier predecessors.


I'm not sure what to tell you here. I feel like you need to actually read up on whats going on because you seem pretty ignorant of gaming, western or eastern. The influence of mobile on the market is'nt new and is something Nintendo themselves have talked about.
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ikillchicken



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 7272
Location: Vancouver
PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 1:55 am Reply with quote
Dessa wrote:
No, all of that is your opinion, and, in my opinion, it's completely off base. I have tons of gamers in my friends, on my friends list, in my regulars at work, and the only company that anyone ever gets excited for is Nintendo.


So basically, you're gonna go ahead and ignore the hard factual sales numbers because of completely anecdotal evidence that more people you know like Nintendo. Well...okay. I don't really know what to say to that. Clearly you've made up your mind and no amount of factual evidence will change your mind.

Quote:
Honestly, I find your use of the term "serious gamers" offensive. I'm a serious gamer.


There's absolutely no reason you should. Nowhere did I suggest you aren't a "serious gamer" for liking Nintendo. (Once again, and I can't believe I have to keep repeating this, I like Nintendo). Nor did I say that more serious gamers are somehow better. I just made a simple, factually based observation that most (if by no means all) more serious gamers aren't really interested in Nintendo. In no way am I making a value judgement. I'm just talking about Nintendo's business prospects. It's possible to separate the two, at least for me.
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