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Aldnoah.Zero (TV) (both seasons).


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walw6pK4Alo



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:28 am Reply with quote
Since all of those Knights seem to at least have big expensive personal mecha, I'm hoping it's like Five Star Stories, where it's only their fights that matter and the Terrran's are only caught in the crossfire.

ChibiKangaroo wrote:
I also thought it was kinda silly that they destroy New Orleans. (Hasn't that city suffered enough!) But seriously, if they are going to use an American city like New Orleans as a set piece, I would much prefer that they actually use characters from that city to contribute in some way to the story and not just use it as something to destroy for the public's entertainment.


It was just a demonstration piece, I doubt anyone or anyplace non-Japanese on the Earth side will matter whatsoever.

ChibiKangaroo wrote:
Additionally, the whole concept of aliens that are essentially the same as human beings is a bit unoriginal. I get that the writers try to come up with an explanation for it, but that explanation came across as kind of weak and not something that had a lot of thought put into it.


I agree here, they could at least have had the decency to be space elves. But really, if they're not going to be human or extremely human-like, there would be little sympathy or any reason to see the conflict from their side, they're not us. Freaky aliens would just be seen as a menace to repel regardless of how well you write them when their intent is to bring harm to Earth.
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Galap
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 4:00 am Reply with quote
I think the armored limo was an Earth car. And you know what, it did pretty damn well for itself, seeing as it managed to take several missiles to the face and flip over without injuring its passenger.

the 'aliens' are human beings, people who departed Earth in ancient times.

@walw: I certianly would LOVE to see something with a sympathetic portrayal of non humanoid aliens in a conflict with humaity! I think a lot of people would be able to see past their appearance (at least I hope so).

Actually, one of my favorite things to see in a story is characters that aren't human and don't act like humans.

Actually, I don't know why we don't see more of that in anime/animation, since with animation it's so easy to be very visually creative with things like that and have the result look awesome.

dtm42 wrote:
Middling first episode, okay but in no way great. Setup was a bit plain and the main character needs to find a personality fast. I can't help but think of similar-in-tone Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion, whose stunning first episode blew me away. Aldnoah.Zero has a big fight on its hands to keep my attention, because right now it is kinda unimpressive.


That's interesting, because I also saw some similarities in tone to the first episdoe of Code Geass, but to me it had all the things I liked about Geass and none of the things I didn't.
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Vaisaga



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 5:09 am Reply with quote
Galap wrote:
@walw: I certianly would LOVE to see something with a sympathetic portrayal of non humanoid aliens in a conflict with humaity! I think a lot of people would be able to see past their appearance (at least I hope so).


Watch the Gundam 00 movie.
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jl07045



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 5:51 am Reply with quote
walw6pK4Alo wrote:
I agree here, they could at least have had the decency to be space elves.


Them not being space elves decreases the possibility of rape in the show so that's good in my book.

Galap wrote:
@walw: I certianly would LOVE to see something with a sympathetic portrayal of non humanoid aliens in a conflict with humaity!


That can't work, because just as he said we sympathize with other beings depending on how much they can be likened to us. I can't see a way around it. Even if they had very different looks and behavior, it would be a cliched "don't judge by the looks" story. It's much more interesting to explore what kind of relationship we could actually have with beings vastly different from us a la Solaris.
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Agent355



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 11:41 am Reply with quote
Copy/paste from preview thread
I really enjoyed the premiere of Aldonoah.Zero. The mecha were in the background. The characters were introduced in a nuanced and detailed oriented way (I'm hoping against hope it'll be more of an ensemble, with all these characters getting their fair share of screentime moving forward). We got a sense of the world and how war screwed everyone over.

I thought the exposition was clever: background news reports, conversation, kids studying their world's history on the way to school, etc.

Some things were pretty dumb.
A bunch of humans colonize
Mars with alien technology, and
choose a government circa
1600's Europe, complete with a
similar fashion sense...oookay,
sure. Also, after a mere 15
years of living in the lunar
asteroid belt, the Knights of
Whatever claim to be attacking
in "the name of their fathers",
how short are their
generations? What are they,
lab mice?
Small blessings for what the
show *doesn't* have...yet:
-Romeo + Juliet between a
"Martian" and a "Terran"
-Incestuous overtones (miracle
of miracles, that one)
-Magic
-Vampires
-Green haired pizza eating
immortal beings
Keep it up, show!
(PS--I did cringe at the New
Orleans destruction, because I
cynically think they chose it
because of Katrina, as in "let's
pick the American city that
Americans care about the
least". Ouch!)

But as for not caring about Earthians outside of Japan, I'm pretty sure that little girl on the bus named Nina and her older brother were refugees. The brother said something about how their home country suffered far worse than Japan did, so the show is planning to show us some perspective.
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DuskyPredator
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 12:05 pm Reply with quote
Confusion: The plot was that humans some time in the past had advanced technology on Mars and travelled somewhere far away, and in more modern times our humans made it to Mars, found the technology, tried to start adapting it, but it got the attention of the ancient humans that split off who decided to come back when Earth humans started the tech up again? Right? It was what I thought was being said but some people seemed to have understood it far different.
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Agent355



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 12:12 pm Reply with quote
I think the plot is that humans discovered alien technology that enabled them to colonize Mars, and the group of humans who moved to Mars around 40 years ago think they're better than the people back on Earth and now they want Earth for themselves...maybe? Your idea makes sense, DuskyPredator, but I didn't get the impression that the "ancient aliens" from millennia ago are still around.
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Blood-



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 12:15 pm Reply with quote
I'd have to watch the episode again but my understanding is that humans found a gateway on the Moon that allowed them to travel to Mars and the tech they found their allowed them to colonize it? And then the Vers Empire, which is made up of the descendants of humans from a long, long time ago showed up and there was a fight that destroyed the Moon? And for some reason there's been a 15 year lull in action?
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DuskyPredator
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 12:22 pm Reply with quote
Blood- wrote:
I'd have to watch the episode again but my understanding is that humans found a gateway on the Moon that allowed them to travel to Mars and the tech they found their allowed them to colonize it? And then the Vers Empire, which is made up of the descendants of humans from a long, long time ago showed up and there was a fight that destroyed the Moon? And for some reason there's been a 15 year lull in action?

I think that is along the lines of what I picked up in the episode. That since the gate got destroyed travel between Earth and the humans that returned to Mars had longer travel time that made war ineffective, but has allowed the advanced humans that left long ago to put the noose around the supposed barbarians.
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Galap
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:19 pm Reply with quote
jl07045 wrote:
That can't work, because just as he said we sympathize with other beings depending on how much they can be likened to us. I can't see a way around it. Even if they had very different looks and behavior, it would be a cliched "don't judge by the looks" story. It's much more interesting to explore what kind of relationship we could actually have with beings vastly different from us a la Solaris.


I don't know about you, but it could work for me. I guess my empathy works differently than other peoples' idk.

IDK why people are being so closed-minded about this. I can totally see a nuanced and novel story about this being possible-- a whole ton of them actually.

Like I said before, as a general statement I like a lot of different types of explorations of being vastly different than us, whether it involves conflict or not.
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walw6pK4Alo



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:39 pm Reply with quote
Too continue the discussion where Zac won't be an overbearing "you can't discuss this" jerk, yeah, you can show destruction of major cities without needing to have characters represent that city. Gundam did it with Sydney and the show had no major Aussie characters. And it's not like NO was the only city that had the wrath of god brought down upon it, it was just the one they chose to show, they could have shown any of the ones they named, they could have and should have shown all of them for maximum effect.

Last edited by walw6pK4Alo on Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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jl07045



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:40 pm Reply with quote
Galap wrote:
I don't know about you, but it could work for me. I guess my empathy works differently than other peoples' idk.


Do you feel equally sympathetic towards a dying person, a dying mouse and a dying fly? I don't think so. The more different something feels to you, the less you can understand it, the less empathy you can feel. Empathising with beings vastly different with us would inevitably mean anthropomorphising them into something more understandable.
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walw6pK4Alo



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:46 pm Reply with quote
jl07045 wrote:
Galap wrote:
I don't know about you, but it could work for me. I guess my empathy works differently than other peoples' idk.


Do you feel equally sympathetic towards a dying person, a dying mouse and a dying fly? I don't think so. The more different something feels to you, the less you can understand it, the less empathy you can feel. Empathising with beings vastly different with us would inevitably mean anthropomorphising them into something more understandable.


Which is taken literally in Sidonia spoiler[when Hoshijiro "comes back" in the form of that guana placenta. If the guana remained some kind of weird tentacle creature, I doubt any kind of empathy would be likely, it's only through that human physicality that Nagate and others take notice.]

What are even good examples where They Came From Outer Space aliens are given proper representation and characterization in fiction? Enemy Mine pops up, but that's more due to the desperate situation of the two pilots, and the alien was still bipedal and more or less a humanoid. The other aspect comes from that these invaders didn't come from outer space, they came from Earth, they're not even genetically modified like the Abh, they're just transplanted Terrans.
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Galap
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 4:14 pm Reply with quote
jl07045 wrote:


Do you feel equally sympathetic towards a dying person, a dying mouse and a dying fly? I don't think so. The more different something feels to you, the less you can understand it, the less empathy you can feel. Empathising with beings vastly different with us would inevitably mean anthropomorphising them into something more understandable.


No, but I would feel equally or equivalently sympathetic towards anything that was intelligent, or had some equivalent of complexity or intelligence, whether it was human-like or not, be it an Ai, android, artificial organism, alien, etc. And I don't think anthropomorphising is necessary. You can understand something that's different than you.


walw6pK4Alo wrote:

Remember the Hideauze from Gargantia and the only reason (plot TWEEST) in the end that made you care for them?


I cared for them before the twist. I actually thought they were really cool. They are what they are, and their origin doesn't really matter with respect to how they should be treated.

Quote:

What's so hard about the concept of wildly non-human and hostile aliens typically being unsympathetic? If it wasn't about invasion and war, then you'd have a clear avenue to explore things like communication, understanding, and friendship, but Aldnoah won't be that kind of show.


non human and hostile aliens could be portrayed as unsympathetic, or not. Neither way is necessarily superior; it's all about the kind of story that's being told. I decide whether something is sympathetic or not based on what they do.

And I don't have any problem with Aldnoah being about human on human conflict. I was just saying that as a general statement I'd like to also see other stories about human and nonhuman conflict (or even nonhuman and nonhuman conflict).


Last edited by Galap on Mon Jul 07, 2014 4:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
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danilo07



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 4:18 pm Reply with quote
If anyone is complaining about destruction in Aldnoah.Zero , then he should see Man of Steel.An entire city gets destroyed with probably millions dying(with of course 11th September imagery ) and nobody gives one flying fudge about what happened.That is a pure destruction porn that we are supposed to be delighted by and frankly I found that attitude a bit disturbing. Aldnoah.Zero was different in that sense , destruction was presented as obviously tragic and horrifying event , I doubt anyone watching it was thinking "Look at that building blowing up.How cool!"
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