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REVIEW: Mazinger Z Sub.DVD Part 1


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jr0904



Joined: 24 Dec 2005
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Location: New York City,New York,USA

PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:51 am Reply with quote
snake-eyes wrote:
jr0904, Mazinger Z was released in the US as Tranzor Z dubbed, changed character names, edits etc.



well when it showed it didn't looked like if it was americanized at all when i watched it in my home country of trinidad. it showed right along with Rurouni Kenshi in those days. though that version was called Samuari X & had a different english dub instead of the Bang Zoom dub (probably those dubs meant for east asian audiences only,but they definitely sounded the same) which is currently showing on Crunchyroll.

So its as i said, i never had a sense it was severely edited, though considering its been so long since i have seen that dub i might have missed something that i would have picked up now. though speaking of which, i am more surprised that they never use that dub version and release it as a hyb version instead of a sub only version just like what NIS America is doing with Card Captor Sakura by using the Animax Asia dub instead of a new one.
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Key
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Joined: 03 Nov 2003
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Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)

PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:12 am Reply with quote
SantaBla wrote:
What I'm saying here is that these 70s series are the way they are because of their target audience. It's not a genre. It's a term used to describe the robots. Can you even define super robot to me?

A Super Robot "is a gigantic robotic, mechanized, or golem-construct, with an arsenal of fantastic super-powered weapons, extreme resistance to damage unless the plot calls for it, sometimes transformable or combined from two or more robots or vehicles usually piloted by young, daring heroes, and often with mystical or legendary origins. This is distinct from a Real Robot, which is a mecha portrayed as a relatively common and plausible item, used by military organizations in the same manner as tanks or aircraft." (Quoted from Wikipedia, and I think it's an excellent description.)

TV Tropes also specifically lists a Super Robot Genre and even provides a checklist for what qualifies.

Yes, I'll agree that Super Robot series are what they are because of the audience they're tailored to. But trying to deny that the label doesn't fit or they don't qualify as at least a subgenre of mecha is just silly.
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SantaBla



Joined: 22 May 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:45 am Reply with quote
Key wrote:
SantaBla wrote:
What I'm saying here is that these 70s series are the way they are because of their target audience. It's not a genre. It's a term used to describe the robots. Can you even define super robot to me?

A Super Robot "is a gigantic robotic, mechanized, or golem-construct, with an arsenal of fantastic super-powered weapons, extreme resistance to damage unless the plot calls for it, sometimes transformable or combined from two or more robots or vehicles usually piloted by young, daring heroes, and often with mystical or legendary origins. This is distinct from a Real Robot, which is a mecha portrayed as a relatively common and plausible item, used by military organizations in the same manner as tanks or aircraft." (Quoted from Wikipedia, and I think it's an excellent description.)

Well, you see. All the stuff written on wikipedia are purely opinionated on what constitutes a super robot or not. That's why it fails as a term. The only part I agree which should actually matter is fantastic super-powered weapons. However, even this is debated a lot as to what show actually has fantastical super-powered weapons. The Gundams today can beat Mazinger easily; so much for super-powered weapons. Also another false point, Mazinger does get damaged on a regular basis and has to undergo maintenance everytime, and not only for plot reasons. Getting damaged when the plot calls for it isn't a super robot cliche. It's an anime cliche. To automatically associate real robot with military robots is also a very easy mistake to make. Just because it's military doesn't make it plausible. One of the forefathers of military robots is Votoms, and that show was filled with mystical bullshit that makes Getter Robo's transformation look feasible in comparison. Even Getter Robo's transformation was more feasible with nano machines in the subsequent ovas. By your definition, Getter Robo Go, the manga is a super robot series. Yet, the manga is actually very militaristic. How do you call it then? And before you say it's a hybrid, it's not, because it's essentially a super robot set in a military setting. The more mecha shows you watch, the more you realize how much these terms can't actually describe anything.

Quote:

TV Tropes also specifically lists a Super Robot Genre and even provides a checklist for what qualifies.

TV Tropes is not a reliable source of information. It's purely speculative. They got several information wrong, about how GGG was supposed to be a reconstruction and other shit like that. So honestly, I washed my hands off the site a long time ago.
Quote:

Yes, I'll agree that Super Robot series are what they are because of the audience they're tailored to. But trying to deny that the label doesn't fit or they don't qualify as at least a subgenre of mecha is just silly.

As a seasoned fan (watched a lot of 70s/80s/90s robot anime), it actually doesn't fit. The term was fine for the commercial purposes of the 70s but it isn't today. SRW was the one to really push this real/super divide. However, SRW used those terms on the robots, not the plots and settings of the shows. In SRW, supers have high armor / low dodge rate, while reals have low armor but high dodge rate.

If you look at Japanese magazines, it's not only super and real. The Japanese have subgenres like transforming robot versus combining robot etc. Again, all those describe the robots, and nothing else.

The only people who use super and real are actually those who aren't familiar with the genre. Super and real are very misleading terms (due to everyone coming up with arbitrary definitions) and shouldn't be used. There are much better ways to describe an anime featuring giant robots.

If you want to use real proper terms for those, it would be heroic robot vs militaristic robot, and this would refer to the robots only, nothing else.
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Just-another-face



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 1:29 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Other than its massive size—46 episodes spread out over six discs—this is a standard Eastern Star release. That means no dub


Is this a standard thing with Eastern Star releases?
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Zac
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 1:52 pm Reply with quote
SantaBla wrote:
The more mecha shows you watch, the more you realize how much these terms can't actually describe anything.


Does watching more mecha shows slowly turn you into someone who is more interested in hair-splitting pedantry than meaningful conversation?

"Super robot" is a term widely used by many and most anime fans you talk to will recognize the type of shows you're talking about when you use it. It's a good shorthand for this sort of thing - not perfect, obviously doesn't fit whatever exacting specific definition you have in your head, but plenty of people use it to perfectly functional effect all the time.

Being this pedantic doesn't make it easier for you to communicate with anyone, it makes it much more difficult and the endgame always seems to be "I'm more right about this [generally meaningless thing]" rather than being helpful to anyone at all.
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SantaBla



Joined: 22 May 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:21 pm Reply with quote
Zac wrote:

"Super robot" is a term widely used by many and most anime fans you talk to will recognize the type of shows you're talking about when you use it.

Most anime fans don't have any idea what they're talking about in the first place. Super and real don't really mean anything in today's anime. Its only real use is in SRW.

Quote:
It's a good shorthand for this sort of thing - not perfect, obviously doesn't fit whatever exacting specific definition you have in your head, but plenty of people use it to perfectly functional effect all the time.

That's exactly why those terms are bad to describe anything more than their literal dictionary meaning. Yet people want to add their own definitions to them.

If anything, the people who use them are more pedantic than me. Every mecha is actually different. By grouping them into two arbitrary sub genres which have little to no meaning, you're just doing a disservice to yourself and the community.
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Surrender Artist
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:32 pm Reply with quote
Tell us about the exact kind of metal that you like next.

Last edited by Surrender Artist on Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:04 am; edited 1 time in total
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Alan45
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:45 pm Reply with quote
@SantaBla
Most of the "community" doesn't care about minor differences in 70s robot shows. Even people who saw one or more as children only care about the shows they saw. People who didn't see the shows, tend to lump them together as "old stuff" that they are not interested in. Even if you want to attract new people to the shows, being pedantic about minor details is not the way do go about it.

I suspect you would have trouble finding as many as a dozen or so people on the forums who like the shows as much as you and they all disagree with you and each other on details.

I could have sworn that this was a thread on a review of one specific show and not a history of 70s robot shows.
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SantaBla



Joined: 22 May 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 8:42 am Reply with quote
Alan45 wrote:
@SantaBla
Most of the "community" doesn't care about minor differences in 70s robot shows.

They are not minor differences, but major ones. Mazinger Z and Zambot 3 are like night and day. If you want to keep on being ignorant about the whole thing and not caring, go ahead. I was just offering my opinion on why these terms are outdated.

Quote:
Even if you want to attract new people to the shows, being pedantic about minor details is not the way do go about it.

Not at all. They are old shows, and all the anime "fans" I talk to don't give a fudge. I'm fine with that. I only get irritated when people don't know what they're talking about, but still pretend they DO.
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whiskeyii



Joined: 29 May 2013
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 6:47 pm Reply with quote
Yeaaaah...seems like I'm the target audience for this review. Never seen the original, only aware of it as some kind of mech show precursor. Though I'm usually curious about historical anime milestones, this sounds like a pass. Knowing the context of Taxi Driver didn't make me hate it any less the second time around, after all. Shame; I like retro stuff (virtual high-five to whoever mentioned Aim for the Ace!), but even with rose-tinted glasses for stuff like Sailor Moon, monster-of-the-week can be a real snoozefest, and the added sexism just makes me uncomfortable.

Sounds like this release is for die-hard fans of the genre (to the point of academia, if it's mostly/purely for the historical significance) or fans of the old show who grew up on it.
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treatment



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 10:04 pm Reply with quote
Honestly, this release is directly for the fans of Mazinger Z. It's not really for anyone that is completely unaware of it. They're purely the secondary or even tertiary market for this.

This release is the very first time ever that Mazinger Z is officially released on DVD in R1-land. So we old fans kinda expected the review to tell us old fans what the fugazi is up with this official US release:

Did it have good translations and subtitles?
Did it use the original names and stuff?
Was something edited out?
What are the bonuses?
Where there any video or audio or other technical issues?
Does it look good or bad on newer tv sets?
How was it different from the old Tranzor Z of Saturday Morning TV?

I mean, seriously.

Everything else other that those stuff above is/are just pure subjective shenanigans.

It is totally expected that newer non-fans will not get to like Maz. It will be nice if newer people would like a 70's cartoon like Maz, but it's still all good if they don't.
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SantaBla



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 5:18 am Reply with quote
whiskeyii wrote:

Sounds like this release is for die-hard fans of the genre (to the point of academia, if it's mostly/purely for the historical significance) or fans of the old show who grew up on it.

I find the sexism claims really exaggerated and Mazinger does have some pretty good episodes. It's not all repetition.

If you like retro, then I suggest you at least check out the Mazinger Z vs Ankoku Daishogun movie instead of dismissing the entire thing.

There's also the 2009 retelling (Shin Mazinger) closer to the manga directed by Imagawa (Giant Robo, G Gundam).
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Key
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 12:26 pm Reply with quote
Again, SantaBla, all you're doing is arguing extreme nitpicky points about classifications.

Okay, so Wikipedia's definition doesn't perfectly fit. But does it mostly fit? That's good enough. Genre classifications aren't that picayune, and one does not have to be a mega-fan just to be able to make a general genre classification.

Example:
Bleach is a series about a young man who gets involved with supernatural forces.
Naruto is a series a boy training to be a ninja.
Fullmetal Alchemist is a series about two brothers who can use what essentially amounts to magical transformation powers who are trying to restore bodies partly or totally lost to an early accident with their powers.

All three of these are quite different series in approach, setting, story elements, and mechanics. But no sane person who knows anything about anime would deny that they are all fairly classified as shonen action series.

The same principle applies with Super Robot series. Of course there are variations and subtypes, and naturally some specific series may have elements which go beyond the genre, but as long as enough elements fit, the genre classification fits.

If you won't accept Wikipedia or TV Tropes' definitions, then perhaps you'll actually heed those from fellow old-school mecha fans? This thread was made a few years ago by someone trying to lay out what Super Robot anime was all about. (I had entirely forgotten about its existence until I did a search for Super Robot definitions.) The fourth post in particular does what I feel is an excellent job of defining Super Robot series and how they differ from Real Robot, and that certainly sounds like it was written by someone who knows old-school mecha well.

If you still disagree that Super Robot is a legitimate classification after reading that, or that it doesn't properly apply to Mazinger, then we have nothing more to talk about.
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whiskeyii



Joined: 29 May 2013
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 8:11 pm Reply with quote
SantaBla wrote:
whiskeyii wrote:

Sounds like this release is for die-hard fans of the genre (to the point of academia, if it's mostly/purely for the historical significance) or fans of the old show who grew up on it.


I find the sexism claims really exaggerated and Mazinger does have some pretty good episodes. It's not all repetition.

If you like retro, then I suggest you at least check out the Mazinger Z vs Ankoku Daishogun movie instead of dismissing the entire thing.

There's also the 2009 retelling (Shin Mazinger) closer to the manga directed by Imagawa (Giant Robo, G Gundam).


Hm, maybe I should elaborate a bit. I walked into this review thinking this: "Hey, I've heard of Mazinger Z. It's some sort of historical mech show. I wonder if it's any good.*"

*And by "good", I meant, "Is it entertaining as a standalone piece that has stood the test of time?"

Largely, it sounds like "no". I'm not a huge fan of mecha/robot shows, or whatever terminology you care to use, I just pick up stuff that sounds interesting or promising, whatever the genre. For me, this review has enough little red flags cropping up that I'll just give the original a pass.

And sexism is a biggie for me, even in small doses; it just happens to be my beserk button. Even as a product of its time, I don't see why I should have to put up with that in a day and age were I can easily pick up another show that lacks sexist undertones.

So, yeah, gonna' pass on this. I might check out the movie at a later time, or the 2009 version, which quite a few people here seem to find more...palatable for a modern audience.
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SantaBla



Joined: 22 May 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 7:41 am Reply with quote
whiskeyii wrote:

So, yeah, gonna' pass on this. I might check out the movie at a later time, or the 2009 version, which quite a few people here seem to find more...palatable for a modern audience.

Like I said, the 2009 version is closer to the comics which wasn't sexist. The writers who worked on Mazinger Z anime were already older than Nagai during the time it was made, so their ideas were already set in stone at the time.

I also mean exaggerated in the way that this is not a one sided relationship where the man would boss around the weak willed woman who'd just do anything he says. It's Sayaka, and she's apparently one of the earliest incarnations of the Tsundere character archetype. Kouji can say nasty things to her, but she usually can fight back, and that's why you have very stormy scenes like this one.

http://www.youtube.com/​watch?​v=​fsoCj2pSpVQ

Plus you talked about Ace of Nerae. I've seen a few episodes of that, and doesn't it have a woman fawning over her coach all the time? It does seem to have very old fashioned relationships, and that doesn't seem to be too far from sexism.
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