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INTEREST: Sailor Moon Dub Voice Director Writes Tell-All Book


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gravediggernalk



Joined: 13 Oct 2013
Posts: 132
Location: Alabama

PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 9:15 pm Reply with quote
Cowboy Bebop has, without a doubt, "The Gold Standard" of English dubs. I intend to pick this up when it comes out, and I hope that there is some sort of explanation that will make that quote come off in a different, more reasonable light.
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machetecat



Joined: 06 Jan 2010
Posts: 383

PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 9:21 pm Reply with quote
It seems to me that this guy's just looking to use the fact that the show's getting both a Re-make and U.S. re-release to make a quick buck. While I'm sure the book will be an interesting read, it's not something I'd actually be willing to PURCHASE. Maybe rent from a library.

Either way I'd take the information in this book with the same amount of salt I'd give to any "Tell-All" books written by Stu Levy on the manga industry.
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NJ_



Joined: 31 Oct 2009
Posts: 1150
Location: Wallington, NJ

PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 9:53 pm Reply with quote
KabaKabaFruit wrote:
I'm just hoping that the book will address some key issues related to the DiC dub that I really want to see a definitive answer to:

-Was the clip show "Follow That Soldier" really necessary to dub considering that the majority of the supporting cast from the show's first season could not be brought back to reprise their roles?


John Stocker took over as ADR Director when DiC got the rest of R in 97 so this question would most likely be for him.
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gravediggernalk



Joined: 13 Oct 2013
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Location: Alabama

PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 10:44 pm Reply with quote
PurpleWarrior13 wrote:
I would probably compare the Classic/R seasons' original dub to Saban/Ocean's early Dragon Ball Z dub, and the S/SuperS seasons' original dub to the later Westwood/Ocean dub for Europe and Canada.


Probably the best analogy for dub quality.

yappers4 wrote:
It seems that a minority group enjoys and respects all versions of the Sailor Moon and that only the hardcore otaku has a problem with the original English dub. Rolling Eyes


I take issue with the dubs cuts and edits and some of the "quality" moments of the voice work, but I do enjoy it, because it's something else to satiate my odd fascination with multiple-dubs (ex. Lupin III: Mystery of Mamo, Dragon Ball, Rurouni Kenshin) and edits and changes of older dubs (ex. Warriors of the Wind, Robotech, Sailor Moon).

I think that it'd be nice to have the original dub of Sailor Moon (and of other series/movies) available for streaming (nothing like getting ad-revenue from people getting a nostalgia kick). Hell, I believe whichever chibi-ADV company has Gatchaman has already put Battle of the Planets (Science Ninja Team Gatchaman edit) up on Hulu for streaming (and I can only hope that the G-Force edit is soon to follow).


Last edited by gravediggernalk on Thu Jul 10, 2014 11:14 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PurpleWarrior13



Joined: 05 Sep 2009
Posts: 1436

PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 10:51 pm Reply with quote
KabaKabaFruit wrote:
-What was the real reason for Tracey Moore's departure from the title role?


From what I've heard, there were creative differences between her and the powers-that-be and it was causing her a great deal of stress. She was also the original ADR director. When she quit/was fired from that position, she also quit voicing Sailor Moon. The book will hopefully explain better.

KabaKabaFruit wrote:
-Were the omission of certain episodes during the show's run a matter of syndication requirements or subject matter concerns that could not be properly censored in the episodes themselves?


DiC skipped some early filler episodes most likely because they wanted to get to the other scouts faster. Not sure about the others. They probably skipped ones they didn't feel were important.

KabaKabaFruit wrote:
-How much influence did Fred Ladd have upon the dubbing of the show itself?


He also has a book, and devoted an entire chapter to Sailor Moon: http://www.amazon.com/​Astro-​Boy-​Anime-​Come-​Americas/​dp/​0786438665/​ref=​sr_1_1?​ie=​UTF8&​qid=​1405049914&​sr=​8-​1&​keywords=​Fred+​Ladd

He was basically in charge of the English localization after Carl Macek quit over creative differences (he said at one of his last convention appearances that he wanted to retain the Japanese setting, feeling it was important to the flavor of the show. DiC disagreed). Ladd basically approved the scripts and was in charge of the editing. He was the one in charge of those original 65 episodes. The rest of the show was almost entirely handled by Optimum Productions with Toei and YTV stamping off on their work.

KabaKabaFruit wrote:
-What were the circumstances that led to DiC losing the rights to the S and the Super S seasons which were ultimately turned over to Cloverway?


From what I've heard, DiC either wanted more money, or Toei felt they could more efficiently handle the show themselves (Cloverway = Toei's old USA branch). Probably a combination of both. Pioneer also helped fund that dub so that it could be uncut (which it was...visually...on DVD...).
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yappers4



Joined: 28 Apr 2011
Posts: 134

PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 11:17 pm Reply with quote
ARC-1300 wrote:
yappers4 wrote:
It seems that a minority group enjoys and respects all versions of the Sailor Moon and that only the hardcore otaku has a problem with the original English dub. Rolling Eyes


no im sure all groups hate the sailor moon dub(original),although,not for the same reasons obviously.


I actually do not have a problem with the original dub. It was something I grew up with. It's not like I heard it for the first time and went "Omg this dub is horrible!" nor do I ever rewatch episodes and say that. Sure there are some episodes that I find awkward and ridiculous that it's funny, but I still wholeheartedly enjoy it.
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AtoMan



Joined: 17 Sep 2012
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 1:33 am Reply with quote
Shay Guy wrote:
Quote:
"...making the English version of Sailor Moon the standard by which all English translations of foreign animations are judged."


Uh...


But that's true. Lots of dub haters (both in America and Europe) actually bring DiC's Sailor Moon as an example of "why all dubs suck".
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PBsallad



Joined: 19 Dec 2009
Posts: 338
Location: Phoenix

PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 4:09 am Reply with quote
Kadmos1 wrote:
angelmcazares wrote:
From conversations that Zac and Justin have had, it would appear that Japan might not have approved the butchering of Sailor Moon in the first North American releases.


That might be the case but Japan has been doing this for over 50 years with America localizing many anime.


50 years ago, or rather in this case nearly 20, the world didn't have high speed Internet like it does now. Which I think is something Justin has brought up before. Hard to to check up on the voices of actors or scripts when they take forever to get to you.

Regardless, both sides are at fault.
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mdo7
It...it's not like I post for you or anything!It...it's not like I post for you or anything!


Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 5888
Location: Maryland, USA

PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:18 am Reply with quote
AtoMan wrote:


But that's true. Lots of dub haters (both in America and Europe) actually bring DiC's Sailor Moon as an example of "why all dubs suck".


and there are dub haters that pull double standard, as in I saw couple of anime fans praising the Japanese dub (alteration) of Beast Wars and saying the Japanese dub/alteration was better then the original. Evil or Very Mad

Please note when Beast Wars went to Japan, it got severely altered for the Japanese version.

But back on topic. color me interested when I read the article, I believe this book could be interesting for anime historians that wants to know more about the early US broadcast of Sailor Moon. I believe this book could be interesting. Smile
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jr0904



Joined: 24 Dec 2005
Posts: 2481
Location: New York City,New York,USA

PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:28 am Reply with quote
SpacemanHardy wrote:
I'm not upset with Parliament being proud of his work. After all, the dub does have its fair share of fans, and without it, many American kids would've never learned of the existence of Sailor Moon in the first place.

But seriously, calling his dub "the standard by which all English translations of foreign animations are judged" is not only laughable and erroneous, but also smacks of pompous arrogance. It's like if Uwe Boll made the boisterous claim that he alone was the reason that all movies in general were good. Rolling Eyes



well that would mean your probably a newbie in the otaku universe.

Cause for most of us that watched anime for decades,you have to remember.

anime in those days didn't had a good rep thanks to ultraviolent movies and OVAs like Ninja Scroll , Vampire Hunter D , Mad Bull 34 & others and it was still an experiment in the US.

Could you had imagined the uber backlash if they had released it unedited in those days? it wouldnt have been pretty. it cause of that fear i could definitely understand what that director had to go through and why he had to make some of the edits like changing Zoicite's gender into a girl.

BUT the changing the characters names as well as some of the places when the audience is clearly not stupid, of course i definitely didn't liked at all,but the other edit was a necessity considering how people felt about same sex couples in those days. hell its was the main reason they had Uranus and Neptune as cousins instead of lovers.

So yea, you can't say its english standard in this era, however, in those days it had to be the standard. It is cause of those edits of SM , DBZ and Gundam Wing as well as Pokemon that anime got its name on the map in the US mainstream audience.

Also when the hell they made the dub casting announcement? cause i never heard of it. Regardless having miss seph as the uber ditzy meatball head usagi is gonna fell weird like there there is no tormorrow. That there is an uber case of a miscasting if i have ever seen one.

AtoMan wrote:
Shay Guy wrote:
Quote:
"...making the English version of Sailor Moon the standard by which all English translations of foreign animations are judged."


Uh...


But that's true. Lots of dub haters (both in America and Europe) actually bring DiC's Sailor Moon as an example of "why all dubs suck".


Well that is how it was in those days. However there are some of us , myself included that still like the Dic version of SM. hell i even watch their version of Saint Seiya.

But SM's DIC version have now been replaced by the horror that is 4kids. as well as nelvana as the main focal point for those dub haters.

Hell at one time some guy who was watching a naruto fansub , start spouting out that 4kids do ALL english dubs back when i was in the Pokemon 10th anniversary festival in Byrant Park in Manhattan.

so yea, i'm afraid that version is no longer the scapegoat for those uber dub haters. not anymore.

gravediggernalk wrote:
Cowboy Bebop has, without a doubt, "The Gold Standard" of English dubs. I intend to pick this up when it comes out, and I hope that there is some sort of explanation that will make that quote come off in a different, more reasonable light.


I'm afraid that is not the case bub. sure cowboy bepop had a great english dub, but the gold standard for english dub? I am afraid not. that title was already claimed by Akira and then Ghost in the Shell. now their english dubs stood beyond the test of time and to even to this day people still enjoy it and most anime otakus that watched akira back when it was released in 1989 would definitely agree with me. at least when it came to akira.
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Violynne



Joined: 09 May 2014
Posts: 53
Location: Megaton, Captial Wasteland

PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 11:02 am Reply with quote
yappers4 wrote:
It seems that a minority group enjoys and respects all versions of the Sailor Moon and that only the hardcore otaku has a problem with the original English dub. Rolling Eyes

The proper term would be "elitist", considering most who are disapproving of the original dub forget the series wasn't released as an anime title, but as a US show geared towards marketing plastic junk to little girls.

It was a hit, in this regard.

It's easy for fans to ridicule and mock things which happened in the past, and today's fans salivate at every opportunity to slam it. There wasn't much anime in 1997 to objectively make comments about a dub which wasn't released as an anime.

If memory service, the original term was "Japnimation". It wasn't difficult to see the artistic differences which made these shows unique.

I find it difficult to take position with an anime fan who ridicules a dub targeted for children and decrying this "ruined" the show. Sailor Moon's impact on anime as an industry remains significant, moreso than the other show cited in this discussion being Cowboy Bebop.

Between these two, Pokemon, and the Dragonball series, there's only one which wasn't marketed to children, so the dub was created accordingly.

This is not a coincidence.
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ActionJacksin



Joined: 16 Dec 2012
Posts: 112

PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 11:18 am Reply with quote
jr0904 wrote:
that title was already claimed by Akira and then Ghost in the Shell. now their english dubs stood beyond the test of time and to even to this day people still enjoy it and most anime otakus that watched akira back when it was released in 1989 would definitely agree with me. at least when it came to akira.


Oh yes, the original Kodancha/Toho Akira dub that set such a high standard for dub acting that fans of film kept demanding that Streamline put out a subtitled VHS release Rolling Eyes

Which they ultimately did, albeit rather sloppily.
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katscradle



Joined: 05 Jan 2013
Posts: 246

PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 11:33 am Reply with quote
For $5 I'll bite for an eBook. It's a memoir so I think it would be interesting how someone remembers and frames the work all these years later. Really some more light shed on circumstances might help people appreciate and understand more how and why things turned out the way they did. People seem to forget North America wasn't the only place where Sailor Moon was edited for broadcast or Occidental penchant either. So vilifying those involved years later for being proud of what was accomplished seems a little gauche to me.


PurpleWarrior13 wrote:
It also featured actors that mostly worked in western animation (including a young Tara Strong), and at the time, the voice acting was top-notch for anime dubbing. It showed us that anime voice acting didn't HAVE to sound cheap with amateur voice actors (Bubblegum Crisis, Robotech), and that effort put into it could turn some great results. After Sailor Moon, the quality of anime dubs improved, and while most surpassed it in quality, I do think SM did set the bar to a new level. If it wasn't for the bowdlerization and heavy editing, it would probably be looked back upon as a great dub for it's time.


That's pretty much how I feel about it. Really it was a fairly well put together product if one can critic the original English dub as more of a separate entity. And there is a decent argument to do just that when looking at Sailor Moon in context of the time period and it's marketing strategy.
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penguintruth



Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 6542
Location: Penguinopolis

PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 11:54 am Reply with quote
PurpleWarrior13 wrote:

I would probably compare the Classic/R seasons' original dub to Saban/Ocean's early Dragon Ball Z dub, and the S/SuperS seasons' original dub to the later Westwood/Ocean dub for Europe and Canada. There are so many parallels with DBZ and SM over here.


Yeah, there are. Both dubs were always horrible and insulting to their source material, regardless of when they were done. It's not like the DBZ dub improved significantly over time, either.

The only real difference is that SM's creator actually cares, whereas Toriyama can't be bothered in his giant pile of yen.

Sometimes I wonder, though, which of the two English dubs are worse. Even Ronin Warriors was more accurate than those two.
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KENZICHI



Joined: 16 Oct 2010
Posts: 768

PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 3:50 pm Reply with quote
ARC-1300 wrote:
yappers4 wrote:
It seems that a minority group enjoys and respects all versions of the Sailor Moon and that only the hardcore otaku has a problem with the original English dub. Rolling Eyes


no im sure all groups hate the sailor moon dub(original),although,not for the same reasons obviously.


Lol, definitely not 'all'. I actually have no ill will towards the original English dub. It's what I grew up with and I appreciate it for introducing me to SM and other shows of its kind.

Anyway, I hope maybe ANN will do a review on this book. I'm interested in this, but I want it to be about things I actually want to know about (like the questions another had listed before me). I know this release time is not a coincidence (and maybe he does just want to get money out of it), but I think it's good to know the history behind the first dub before the second one comes out (or whenever it comes out). I think it'll be interesting.
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