Forum - View topic
INTEREST: Sailor Moon Dub Voice Director Writes Tell-All Book


Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Note: this is the discussion thread for this article

Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
EyeOfPain



Joined: 14 May 2013
Posts: 282

PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:01 pm Reply with quote
angelmcazares wrote:
From conversations that Zac and Justin have had, it would appear that Japan might not have approved the butchering of Sailor Moon in the first North American releases.

Those decisions were probably approved by some salaryman at Toei, back before Takeuchi had all the time in the world to baby her one successful title.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Shadowrun20XX



Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Posts: 1613
Location: Vegas

PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:07 pm Reply with quote
Kadmos1 wrote:
penguintruth wrote:
So, a white washing of how horrendously butchered Sailor Moon's English version was by somebody who wants to self-fellate.

They should do an audio book version, in case I need to stop and gag and don't want to lose my place.


Have you forgotten that this and other butchered dubs do get approved by the Japanese?


I want to see proof that the Japanese said it was OK, Especially when Takeuchi held on her series for so long.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
tygerchickchibi



Joined: 29 Sep 2006
Posts: 1124

PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:27 pm Reply with quote
Shadowrun20XX wrote:


I want to see proof that the Japanese said it was OK, Especially when Takeuchi held on her series for so long.


On a side note, I wonder if people think that the edited dub is the reason that Takeuchi kept the license from the US.

But when the live action series came out, the license was pulled out of plenty of different countries to promote the series...so...I dunno why people think that she didn't approve it. She didn't hide the fact that she was not pleased with the original (Toei) version anyway. Neutral
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
PurpleWarrior13



Joined: 05 Sep 2009
Posts: 1400

PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:55 pm Reply with quote
^ Even that's been exaggerated. She didn't DISlike the original anime. She just had some issues with it (personally, I prefer it to the manga, but I digress). Her opinion on the DiC dub isn't too well known, other than that she knows about it. I believe she did mention somewhere that she was okay most of the voice acting, but she found Usagi/Serena's voice to be too deep. I can't find a source for that though, and only heard it through the grapevine (though surprisingly NOT from people who are obsessed with the DiC dub).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tygerchickchibi



Joined: 29 Sep 2006
Posts: 1124

PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:17 pm Reply with quote
I've seen in a few interviews that she wasn't necessarily happy with some parts of the adaptations. It was such a long time ago, so unfortunately, I can't source it.

As far as the dub was concerned, I think her mention of the dub was in Tokyopop's release of the comic. Do you remember that at all?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
enurtsol



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 11852

PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 11:01 pm Reply with quote
Takeuchi was already one extra step removed away from the dub adaptations of SM all over the globe. The anime was not a direct adaptation of her manga; her manga and the anime were being done simultaneously - she did her thing, while the anime people (Toei) did their thing (there's some collaboration of course, but it's not like she's in charge of the anime side). She was one important cog in the merch machine, but she wasn't a big-shot when that whole thing started, so she didn't have the leverage to control back then.

So the anime itself already had differences from her manga, and the SM dubs all over the world did their own things. It's already changes upon changes from the start. She can be upset at some of the changes, but there's only so far she can be qualified for. The manga is her baby; the anime is not.

Toei and the SM production committee itself don't have much leverage back then. They're trying to get their products on people's TVs all over the world. Up to a point, they had to do whatever it takes. They ain't gonna make money on just home videos; there's no net streaming; they're not gonna pay to dub 200 episodes in many languages unless it gets on TV. It's not like they can do anything else - they're at the mercy of the local TV business environments.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
iloveturkey



Joined: 09 Jun 2014
Posts: 70

PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 11:44 pm Reply with quote
tygerchickchibi wrote:
I've seen in a few interviews that she wasn't necessarily happy with some parts of the adaptations. It was such a long time ago, so unfortunately, I can't source it.


I would take any posts about Takeuchi's feelings without a citation with a hefty grain of salt. They are almost undoubtedly made up by people who want thier own opinions validated by using the creator as a spokesperson. Her and Toriyama are the most often misquoted and blatantly lied about creators in the American fandom when it comes to their own work. People to this day still insist Dragonball was originally going to end after the Freiza storyline.

All we have for Takeuchi is whatever comments are in the shinsouban editions of the manga. In that regard, the only comment I recall from her is mentioning that her magazine editor back in the day wouldn't let her kill off the senshi at the end of the Beryl storyline but then later saw the anime adaption did what she originally wanted to do and it made her a bit upset.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
KendoGirl



Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 30
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 10:30 am Reply with quote
I think a lot of people are missing the best parts of the dub...

Sailor Moon kept a lot of things intact that wouldn't make a kid-friendly rating these days. Scenes of the naked transformations, bath scenes...these would actually attract a higher rating if aired on TV in many countries today. When we were vetting some screenshots to be used in a panel at a convention in Australia a few years back, we needed to have the content vetted by the Police to ensure it complied with child pornography laws (the context was a Yuri/Yaoi panel and general discussion of censorship in anime).

A single screenshot of Usagi in the bath (which aired in DiC's dub on Australian TV approximately 10 years prior) was deemed to be unsuitable as it was a "near naked image of a minor". Simply put, Sailor Moon in it's original form would face either the same or more edits if it aired on TV in many countries today. In Australia, scenes of bathing would be unable to air on TV, or be placed at an MA15+ restriction (though I hope it will stick to M if the new dub makes it to our shores).

Another thing was the dubbed music. English versions of the Japanese songs was such a boon for fans back then. In the 90s the soundtracks would have been dropped to audio only or cut entirely. Sure the dub suffered from the fear of silence that most cartoons did in that era but they not only kept some songs and took time to put them in English, they also wrote original songs.

I still love Rainy Day Man and as cheesy as it is, I wanna be a Star.

I'm interested in what he has to say about the dub because without that and DBZ a few years later I would never have found and enjoyed so many anime series, and I truly did enjoy the English dub as a young kid. It has a lot of nostalgic memories for me.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
penguintruth



Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 6462
Location: Penguinopolis

PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 11:20 am Reply with quote
I'll give the SM dub this much, some of those English dubbed version songs were decent. Especially when you consider the alternative, which is what DBZ's English version did by replacing all the music, both instrumental and vocal.

But then, at least the DBZ dub didn't patronize to the audience with "what we learned today" segments at the end of the episodes. Oh wait, they incorporated moral lessons into the inaccurate scripts.

"Helping people can be fun, too! You should try it sometime!"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address My Anime My Manga
enurtsol



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 11852

PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:39 pm Reply with quote
KendoGirl wrote:

Sailor Moon kept a lot of things intact that wouldn't make a kid-friendly rating these days. Scenes of the naked transformations, bath scenes...these would actually attract a higher rating if aired on TV in many countries today. When we were vetting some screenshots to be used in a panel at a convention in Australia a few years back, we needed to have the content vetted by the Police to ensure it complied with child pornography laws (the context was a Yuri/Yaoi panel and general discussion of censorship in anime).


Ah Australia, anime fans have a friend in this judge: Laughing

Australian judge under fire for saying incest 'may be accepted'

  • “A jury might find nothing untoward in the advance of a brother towards his sister once she had sexually matured, had sexual relationships with other men and was now ‘available’, not having (a) sexual partner,” Neilson reportedly said.

    Hazzard said he had referred Neilson to the Judicial Commission of New South Wales, which investigates complaints. He also requested the District Court suspend the judge from criminal trials until the probe was completed.

    In his case comments, Neilson reportedly added that the “only reason” incest remained a crime was due to the risk of genetic abnormalities in children born through such a relationship.

    “But even that falls away to an extent (because) there is such ease of contraception and ready access to abortion,” he said.



penguintruth wrote:

But then, at least the DBZ dub didn't patronize to the audience with "what we learned today" segments at the end of the episodes.


That's just business. It was the FCC requirement that stations air at least 3 hours of "edutainment" per week. Since Sailor Moon was being vended for syndication, it becomes more attractive for stations to pick up if it helps them satisfy that requirement. Ergo the "Sailors Says" it's about business for Program Exchange (the syndicator for SM).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
octopodpie
ANN Associate Editor


Joined: 02 May 2011
Posts: 952
Location: Washington State

PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 2:41 pm Reply with quote
KendoGirl wrote:
Scenes of the naked transformations, bath scenes...these would actually attract a higher rating if aired on TV in many countries today.


I think it's important to remember that these scenes were digitally edited for American TV to remove breast lines. They were still censored. The girls could be naked in their transformations/ in the bath as long as they their breasts/cleavage were removed.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
enurtsol



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 11852

PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 2:54 pm Reply with quote
octopodpie wrote:
KendoGirl wrote:

Scenes of the naked transformations, bath scenes...these would actually attract a higher rating if aired on TV in many countries today.

I think it's important to remember that these scenes were digitally edited for American TV to remove breast lines. They were still censored. The girls could be naked in their transformations/ in the bath as long as they their breasts/cleavage were removed.


IIRC the bath water was also colored reddish instead of clear. Anything to lessen the titillation.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Zalis116
Moderator


Joined: 31 Mar 2005
Posts: 5794
Location: Arcana City

PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 9:22 pm Reply with quote
I'll admit to having nostalgia for the first two seasons' dubs, as seeing them in the late 90s is largely what got me into anime in the first place. Though I'm not sure how much I saw beyond the Doom Tree arc back in the day, and I know I never saw the "lost episodes" of R until I got the DVDs in 2003. But the cast changes in S plus the lack of nostalgia value led to me switching to subtitles very quickly after I started up that first disc. Even so, I definitely wouldn't agree that any of Sailor Moon's dub iterations set the standard for anime adaptations, aside from "what not to do." Only with the 1998 Trinity of Cowboy Bebop, Outlaw Star, and Trigun did we start to see TV dubs that were well-acted, faithful enough while still being natural/entertaining in English, and emerging from the censorship gauntlet virtually intact. With some exceptions like Outlaw Star ep 23, of course.

penguintruth wrote:
I'll give the SM dub this much, some of those English dubbed version songs were decent. Especially when you consider the alternative, which is what DBZ's English version did by replacing all the music, both instrumental and vocal.
What? The first two Sailor Moon seasons, at least, did completely change out the instrumental score in addition to the songs. The terrible audio quality in the ADV subtitled sets made me long for the dub BGM, though the actual music of the Japanese score itself isn't bad.

enurtsol wrote:
IIRC the bath water was also colored reddish instead of clear. Anything to lessen the titillation.
In the US version, it was still blue, just with a painfully obvious extra digitally-added rectangle to cover cleavage.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
enurtsol



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 11852

PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 3:25 am Reply with quote
Zalis116 wrote:

enurtsol wrote:

IIRC the bath water was also colored reddish instead of clear. Anything to lessen the titillation.

In the US version, it was still blue, just with a painfully obvious extra digitally-added rectangle to cover cleavage.


Also, my mistake. It was made more red instead:

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Maidenoftheredhand



Joined: 21 Jun 2007
Posts: 2037

PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 8:23 pm Reply with quote
^ It looks like she is taking a bath in blood
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 3 of 4

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group