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hrtrunks
Joined: 02 Jan 2006
Posts: 65
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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:25 am
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SoloButterfly wrote: |
hrtrunks wrote: | Anyway, Hayao Miyazaki is leading by far. I have no idea why but people love him. I just can't understand why people think he is so good.
Let's just face it, his anime are for kids. Fact. |
What movies for kids can't be good and have an appeal outside of their intended audience? And besides, Miyazaki says his films are family films.
Part of the reason he's leading is due to the undeniable fact that pretty much any anime fan worth their salt knows his name even if they don't love everything done by Miyazaki. I imagine some people picked him just because he's the only director they know. And then of course there are the hundreds of others who picked him because they adore his movies
I used the poll as an oppurtunity to grow in my otaku knowledge and had a hard time narrowing it down. Ended up narrowing it down to three or so, Miyazaki (let's face it, he's as known as Spielberg and Lucas are in mainstream film culture, to anime fans, and he's got some wonderful films.) Mizushima Seiji (until this poll I'd never realized he did Slayers Next, so that along with FMA put him on my list) and Takuya Igarashi (who I ended up voting for because I knew the others already have huge followings ).
I also learned a few directors that I hate their stuff and now know who to blame for my displeasure of certian series. |
I never said he is a bad director, or that family films are bad. I'm just saying that he is a GOOD director not GREAT.
In my opinion, he is making quality family films, but nothing SPECIAL. And to be the best director, you have to make something SPECIAL.
Miyazaki is just the most popular and mainstream, that's all.
Shinichiro Watanabe and Mamoru Oshii are special, not Miyazaki.
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hikaru004
Joined: 15 Mar 2004
Posts: 2306
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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 9:00 am
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Brack wrote: |
hikaru004 wrote: | It's not much of a mystery of why Ikuhara or Gotoh aren't in the list. Their series directorial works aren't in the top 50 list. |
Kazuto NAKAZAWA being one of them. Am I right in thinking he's included in the poll due to his credit on Champloo? But he's listed on that show as Chief Animation Director, rather than the Director who was Shinichiro Watanabe. Or am I missing a credit somewhere? Or are Animation Directors being included as well?
Also, Umanosuke IIDA? What title in the top 50 did he direct to get included? |
Nakazawa directed Comedy which is currently at #44 in the top 50 list.
Iida is probably on the list for Hellsing TV which isn't currently in the top 50, but may have been at the origination of the polls.
But, only tempest or anyone dealing with the polls can give you a definite answer.
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Iritscen
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 793
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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 9:07 am
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I found ANO's post very interesting, but he should keep in mind that the situation is not totally comparable to:
- books, because one author's name is plastered on the front of every book; it's impossible to miss
- American movies, because the mid-famous and well-known directors get written about in the media, they do interviews, yada yada. Even if that were the case with Japanese anime directors, it would be the case in Japan, and most fans, contrary to their fervent wishes, cannot read Japanese nor have access to Japanese publications.
Also, my understanding is that con attendance skews towards the young 'uns, or at least the younger crowd is the majority. When I was their age, I didn't notice credits either. Only when I was a teen did I start reading credits, and I am much more inclined towards reading and learning names than the average person. So let's not hold their age against them. (I believe someone already said something to this effect; I just wanted to restate it for emphasis.)
And re: Miyazaki, I didn't vote for him because, although his films are beautiful engaging fantasies, I couldn't think of any times watching them when the direction impressed me. Story, setting, artwork, design, but not direction. I suspect some others think the way I do, hence why they are reacting negatively to his getting so many votes.
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undeadben
Joined: 06 May 2006
Posts: 1212
Location: West Texas
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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 9:24 am
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hikaru004 wrote: |
Brack wrote: | Also, Umanosuke IIDA? What title in the top 50 did he direct to get included? |
...
Iida is probably on the list for Hellsing TV which isn't currently in the top 50, but may have been at the origination of the polls. |
Actually I think Iida is there because Hellsing is #21 on the most popular list.
In a reply on the first page in this thread to a comment about Kawajiri not being on the list, Tempest had replied:
Tempest wrote: | None of Kawajiri's films are among the top 50 rated/most popular anime in the encyclopedia.
I only included directros who were. |
So he didn't just include those that directed anime in the top 50 'best rated,' but also those that have anime in the top 50 'most popular.'
I was pretty sure Miyazaki would be on top, but I think it is interesting to see how many other directors are popular. Although I was pretty sure that Anno and Shinichiro Watanabe would be up there too. And nice to see so many votes for Satoshi Kon, Millennium Actress is my favorite animated film.
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HeeroTX
Joined: 15 Jul 2002
Posts: 2046
Location: Austin, TX
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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 9:34 am
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hikaru004 wrote: | I think that if people are having problems with the directors, then going for the more obscure category of character designer is a lost cause. |
I disagree, since you link their profiles, I think there are numerous people who (after they realize what the person did) hold great respect for Character Designs. Also, I call crap on that list of top 50, how does Nanoha make the top 50 and Sailor Moon does not?
Juniichi Satoh +1
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Brack
Joined: 15 Oct 2005
Posts: 281
Location: UK
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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 9:39 am
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hikaru004 wrote: |
Nakazawa directed Comedy which is currently at #44 in the top 50 list.
Iida is probably on the list for Hellsing TV which isn't currently in the top 50, but may have been at the origination of the polls.
But, only tempest or anyone dealing with the polls can give you a definite answer. |
Thanks for sorting that out.
Comedy at #44? That's restored some faith in humanity for me.
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whoisfriend
Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 369
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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 9:49 am
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I voted for Tatsuya Ishihara, because he's my favourite director _at the moment_. When I watched Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu, I got a great kick out of the first episode, because it had all the qualities of a poorly made student film (of which I have experience with ). Pulling that off in the form of an anime is really something else. It looked like it was shot with a cruddy camera. The lighting was off. The episode was a riot (though it's funnier the second time around). Another example is episode 12. The sheer ammount of detail that went into the concert scene is astounding, as is the small details in the background of the festival. And there's something about the 3 minutes of reading in (chronological) episode 14, which was quite funny as well. It's the smaller stuff that made him hit the top of my list.
Also, there's the incredible adaptation of AIR and Kanon looks to have an equally incredible adaptation (hopefully anyways).
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Unholy_Nny
Joined: 22 Jun 2005
Posts: 622
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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 10:27 am
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HeeroTX wrote: | Also, I call crap on that list of top 50, how does Nanoha make the top 50 and Sailor Moon does not?
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Because Sailor Moon was popular in the 90s and only a few people I know still watch it, while Nanoha is currently getting a third season, it's more action oriented, and it's got lots of moe~, which otaku tend to enjoy. Not to mention it makes the magical girl genre bad-a**, never before have I seen a 10 year old girl who could probably kick every single DBZ character's butt.
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HeeroTX
Joined: 15 Jul 2002
Posts: 2046
Location: Austin, TX
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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 10:45 am
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Unholy_Nny wrote: | Because Sailor Moon was popular in the 90s and only a few people I know still watch it |
That should have absolutely no bearing on overall ratings (altho, granted it DOES in some cases). Someone should also do some data "cleaning" before this kind of poll. While I accept that "Spirited Away" and "Whispers of the Heart" are totally different movies by the same guy, Comboy Bebop (TV) and Cowboy Bebop (movie) are essentially the same thing for these purposes. As are "Honey & Clover" and "Honey & Clover II". Items like that should be "normalized" into a single entry for "top 50" items so a few other things can make the list. Also (IMO, and I grant it's worth what it costs) anything with less than 100 and really anything less than 200 votes shouldn't factor in, since if you're going to mentally discount Haruhi because of devoted "cult" following, what does that say of the 83 people that rated LoGH (OAV) vs. the 1000+ votes for a good portion of the list.
I also agree with the contention that a large number of fans don't care about or know directors. Heck, I DO know directors and more often than not I don't care about em. And honestly, if you're gonna do a poll, why not just put "aside from Miyazaki" in the poll question and make it about directors besides him. I mean, does anyone need more evidence of HIS cult of personality?
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Aaron White
Old Regular
Joined: 23 Aug 2002
Posts: 1365
Location: Birmingham, Alabama
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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 1:10 pm
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I'm a little astonished that some folks don't get the reason Miyazaki is so acclaimed, but hey, give it time; he's not the flashiest or the most artsy, but there's a difference between artsy and artful. His work is richer, more nuanced than most film, anime or otherwise. But I never would have realized that if I'd seen his stuff when I was younger. His films are nominally childrens' films, but they can be best appreciated by adults.
I was amused when I read an interview with Oshii in which he complained that Miyazaki needs to make films for adults. If by "films for adults" he means "pseudo-Antonioni police procedurals with robots," I disagree.
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Tenchi
Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 4469
Location: Ottawa... now I'm an ex-Anglo Montrealer.
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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 2:20 pm
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Hmm... count me in as someone else who might have voted for Junichi Sato, had he been an option. Or Hiroaki Gohda or Katsuhiko Nishijima or Hiroshi Negishi.
I almost voted for Mamoru Oshii, if just for his Urusei Yatsura work, and I originally voted for Kazuhiro Furuhashi, though for You're Under Arrest instead of Rurouni Kenshin. But then I noticed that Furuhashi had over twice as many votes as Super GALS! director Tsuneo Kobayashi, so I thought I'd change my vote to show some appreciation in his direction instead.
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Samurai-with-glasses
Joined: 17 Aug 2005
Posts: 628
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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 8:34 pm
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HeeroTX wrote: | While I accept that "Spirited Away" and "Whispers of the Heart" are totally different movies by the same guy, Comboy Bebop (TV) and Cowboy Bebop (movie) are essentially the same thing for these purposes. |
First, while Miyazaki was heavily involved with the production of "Whisper of the Heart," it's actually Yoshifumi Kondo, one of the Ghibli directors that everyone forgot (and who died prematurely--sad stuff) that directed it. Miyazaki's direction is only during the fantasy sequence; and, fantastic as it is, to attribute the whole film's directing to him is quite an oversight.
Second, the comparison doesn't quite work when you actually have to draw the lines. Different productions are just different productions, why suddenly make the distinctions? Cowboy Bebop might be of the same franchise and is similar to its movie, but they're still different productions.
____________
And what's with Miyazaki-bashing in this thread? I suspect it is a measure of your internet 1331 supremacy...
You know, "I'm smarter than the average person because I love this more obscure director a lot and hates mainstream anime as much as hipsters hate mainstream music" kind of supremacy. Admit it, Miyazaki has the reputation and name recognition to easily win such a poll.
Mind you, I was quite surprised Sato isn't on the list. Isn't he "the god of shoujo (anime)" or something?
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MorwenLaicoriel
Joined: 26 Feb 2006
Posts: 1617
Location: Colorado
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Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 1:04 am
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Samurai-with-glasses wrote: |
Mind you, I was quite surprised Sato isn't on the list. Isn't he "the god of shoujo (anime)" or something? |
The key word there is shoujo. Just look at the top 50 and count how many are shoujo. Here in america, for whatever reason, shounen rules.
Probably in part because it's not "weird" for a girl to like shounen, but it'd be considered "weird" for a guy to like shoujo. Oh, wonderful double standards!
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Tempest
I Run this place.
ANN Publisher
Joined: 29 Dec 2001
Posts: 10420
Location: Do not message me for support.
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Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 1:30 am
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Unholy_Nny wrote: | Because Sailor Moon was popular in the 90s and only a few people I know still watch it, |
The anime's age wouldn't affect it's rating in the "best" categories, only the "popular" ad "most seen" categories.
However, as important as Sailor Moon is historicly, it just doesn't match up very well when compared, in terms of how good it is, to the other anime on the "best" lists.
-t
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DKL
Joined: 08 May 2005
Posts: 1945
Location: California, USA
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Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 1:47 am
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MorwenLaicoriel wrote: |
Probably in part because it's not "weird" for a girl to like shounen, but it'd be considered "weird" for a guy to like shoujo. Oh, wonderful double standards! |
Man, that's a load of horse-piss... I'm the manliest person I know (har har har).
But yeah... for the most part, I'm pretty sure that the target market prevails even if there is indeed a minority, such as myself (minority in a sense that I'm a manly man who enjoys his CCS and his Strawberry Marshmallow... oh, and I'm not saying that I'm the only one in this group, obviously... oh, and I'm not saying that I'm actually a manly man either)...
Waitaminute... uh... isn't Shoujo really (okay, fairly) popular here? I mean... in manga form, at least...
I dunno... just making assumptions.
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