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Anybody remember how Eric Sherman pissed off anime "fans" because he said fansubbers and scanlators killing the industry?

I've been saying this since the first time I went to Greg Ayers anime piracy panel, it's illegal. Stealing copyrighted and giving it away online for free without permission is illegal. No matter how you try to twist it.

Hell, there's no reason people in the U.S should even be pirating anime, all but maybe 2 titles make it over here.

Stark700 wrote:

Yeah good luck with this....

Get rid of one site and more emerges to take its place.

Eh, this is all just to flex ownership muscles anyways. It doesn't really matter if it "works".
Periodically, companies pretty much have to do this with the current copyright laws, or risk having inaction held against them in potential future lawsuits.

You know, all the analogies to Hydra seem to overlook that Hydra was eventually defeated. Laughing

Personally, I don't read digital manga. It's either in print or it doesn't exist to me...but I love the TWGOK anime, and right now the only way I can read it is through scanlations.

So, I can kind of understand the plight of some when it comes to not having something available to them legally. Though, I doubt that those that only access anime/manga illegally due to it being unavailable in the west is anywhere near the number who just don't buy anything anime/manga related and just watch stuff for free.

I may crack one day and go and read TWGOK scanlations... Laughing

Last edited by acetatsujin on Wed Jul 30, 2014 1:30 pm; edited 1 time in total

Touma wrote:

Barbobot wrote:

Downloading copyrighted material from file-sharing sites is illegal in multiple countries.

And even if the downloading is not illegal the uploading would be, unless the person who uploads the file has permission from the copyright holder.

acetatsujin wrote:

I purchase a shit load of goods but I can't speak for others at all. I'm speaking for myself.

What would you do if those sites did not exist?
Would you not buy anime and manga at all?
That is not sarcasm. I really am curious about that.

Think about it. What is the main reason for me to actually purchase these goods? I have my own reasons. But then what if I was never exposed to them? What would happen? Would I be interested? ...

Of course not. Absolutely not. I don't know what the hell it is saying. I don't understand the language. What is the benefit of me purchasing something I barely have knowledge on? So wouldn't it be THANKS to these fans that they translated the mentioned media and released it to the public? At least outside of Japan.

-swings seat around to his collection- ... I'll just have to post a proof of what I'm collecting. Just keep in mind this stuff is all from Japan. I only purchase localized goods that are either Manga or Light Novels since those are actually worth the pennies.

Link to my recent pictures and recent purchases - http://imgbox.com/g/DRewXqGbdF

Edit - Excuse the little mess I have around Sad

There's a heap lot more inside the big closets and the long height cabinets. I do purchase blu-rays. Last year was Attack on Titan (all 9 volumes) and Golden Time (still collecting). This year Kill la Kill (up to 7 volumes, 2 more to go) and Grisaia. I'm also going to order the Japanese edition of Fate/Zero ... I know about the English version, but guess who is publishing them? I don't support Aniplex of America.

Anyways. I'm one of those people so I don't care what people say. I love this stuff. It's thanks to these fans that I'm purchasing these. A lot of Japanese companies don't care what happens outside of Japan. In fact, they do support the fans who translate their stuff. It's a free service. But communities and groups like Funimation, Aniplex, and now the Japanese government and sites like ANN who have the shit they list here is filled with stupidity and the other half is actually true - it is these people that keep confining what is out there.

I didn't take pictures of what's behind me. I have up to volume 11 of Spice & Wolf (light novel) and 8 volumes of Spice & Wolf (manga). I have first novel of Sword Art Online (light novel) - the manga is shit and the anime is even worse. I have up to 12 volumes of Attack on Titan (manga) plus the special manga stuff. I'll be purchasing the light novel .. uh .. . I have Mardock Sramble (light novel) .. I can't see .. uh, I have Welcome to NHK I think up to volume 8 (manga) and Dance in the Vampire Bund (up to volume .. 6 I think). And Bunny Drop (manga) up to volume 6. I'll complete the rest of the purchases later. Oh I also purchased All You Need is Kill (light novel). I haven't checked who translated the manga edition. There are some terrible official English translators out there .. Like Oreimo manga ... wow it is so bad I wish I have avoided buying the three volumes :/ ... Oh I have Toradora up to volume 6, too.

I've recently went ahead and began collecting Muv-Luv goods. Those who played Muv-Luv Alternative know how amazing it is. It's the #1 visual novel in the west and in Japan (various sites that rank VNs) - VNDB and recent ratings of the visual novel. Ranking of VNDB.

Alright I think you get the picture how deep I am into this stuff. >_>;; fudge I just realized I'm a Japanese nerd ... lol

Quote:

The Ministry of Economy estimated damages of two trillion yen (US$19.6 billion) from America in 2013.

...A loss from overseas sites that more or less matches the size of the gross profits from the entire anime industry during one year. Uh, umh, I think I need a little more proof...

Beatdigga wrote:

Yeah, I get trying to protect your copyright, but too often, the alternative is "sucks to.be you" and there's nothing legal to replace it.

This, spot on. Perhaps not so much for anime anymore, but oh so much for manga. And add to that all region blocks... Not that it matters, aaand I'll just reiterate this adage by EFF veteran John Gilmore from a previous thread;
"The Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it."

acetatsujin wrote:

I wanna see them try to take down Nyaa ... lol, this is hilarious. -sits back and watches-

They will. Oh, they will. Laughing

'Try' that is (Grabs a bucket of popcorn. Though if I were them, I'd invest some of the funds assigned into fusion research. At least it would have vastly higher returns for the value of them...)
To clarify, Nyaa is listed on the pdf that lists the sites affected.

Touma wrote:

What would you do if those sites did not exist?
Would you not buy anime and manga at all?
That is not sarcasm. I really am curious about that.

My spending on anime and related merch would be vastly smaller as I won't purchase sights unseen. Next question?

But the bottom line is, regardless of intentions, this approach hasn't worked in the past nor will it work now. Of the approaches that HAVE worked well, Crunchyroll is probably the most successful.

And about the 'Thank You' movie? It's been pirated Smile

...

Anyone else find it ironic how two shows that aren't even licensed in North America are in that video? Urusei Yatsura's DVD's went OOP years ago, and Hyouka still remains unlicensed.

In other words, the Japanese government will start "war on fansites",huh?

Crap! My worst fears has become true. Sad

Be interesting to see if they actually have results considering they can't even keep it off YouTube - even with free simulcasting there are already multiple uploads of Sailor Moon Crystal and pretty much the entire of the original series.

But they get YouTube to pull 2-3 AMVs.... *shaking head*

誤称 wrote:

Joe Mello wrote:

terran3020 wrote:

it is HOPELESS to try and fight this

And so the alternative is what, exactly?

Build a better service.

mangamuscle wrote:

Get their content available online, get people to translate it to chinese and english. They would get a fortune in ads.

You're both assuming that quality is an important factor regarding piracy, when I believe that quality is irrelevant, whether it's in regard to the product or the service that distributes it. To me, money is the primary variable, because no matter how good a legal product is, there's a cost attached, and pirating will almost always be cheaper than buying. There are even pirate sites hosting Sailor Moon Crystal and that's a free simulcast.

The way I see it, there are only two ways to combat piracy at this point: the first is through legal channels, and the second is to stop producing product because there's not enough money to be made.

Last edited by mangamuscle on Wed Jul 30, 2014 2:31 pm; edited 2 times in total

Joe Mello wrote:

mangamuscle wrote:

Get their content available online, get people to translate it to chinese and english. They would get a fortune in ads.

You're both assuming that quality is an important factor regarding piracy, when I believe that quality is irrelevant, whether it's in regard to the product or the service that distributes it. To me, money is the primary variable, because no matter how good a legal product is, there's a cost attached, and pirating will almost always be cheaper than buying. There are even pirate sites hosting Sailor Moon Crystal and that's a free simulcast.

You assumption is flawed from the start. You are basically saying "Since piracy costs are near zero you can't make a profit in such unfair market.", but lo and behold, neither the music, nor the computer software, nor the game software, nor the digital books, nor ANY software market has crashed due to piracy, ever. People do buy stuff even when they can get it for free! I am not trying to imply that those "pure of heart" go and buy stuff to help the poor *sob* *sob* megacorporations, not at all. People like GOOD SERVICE and if they can get it for the right price, they will buy it. That is the reason business like gog.com are thriving, even when big companies insist they can't make a profit without DRM due to piracy, that is BULLSHIT! Hopefully DRM is not something that has relevance in the anime/manga market (it is either impossible or broken). the simple truth is that blockheads running manga publishing companies insist that it is either "my way or no way" instead of giving good service to their customers, hell, they rather put their customers behind bars.

Every time this argument comes up, there's always people who say "well, I wasn't going to buy t anyway." As if these companies care one way or the other about pissing off people who happily admit they never intended to give them money.

LUNI_TUNZ wrote:

Every time this argument comes up, there's always people who say "well, I wasn't going to buy t anyway." As if these companies care one way or the other about pissing off people who happily admit they never intended to give them money.

Most of those are teenagers and students who are nearly broke by default, but someday they will become wage earning adults that will remember not to spend a penny on those companies that pissed them off *waves at Funi*.

My only problem here is how to gain the anime with sub, legally. I live in some third world country, so gaining access to legal streaming site is almost impossible because "this video is unavailable in your country". And in local television we only have relatively old anime which is being broadcasted over and over again (if I have to say the titles: Doraemon, Dragon Ball, Naruto, One Piece, Captain Tsubasa and other very very mainstream anime titles)
Plus the censorship (and parents) are ridiculous, they once banned Naruto because a genius kid tried to imitate jumping from roof to roof and died in the action, they banned Bleach because it contains supernatural story it's considered unhealthy (even though we have copycats soap opera about kids using magic and such), and they even blurred every single cleavage even in Hollywood movies -which makes things much more awkward that it was supposed to be-. And it will not, will never ever change. With recent anime full with fanservice, I don't think I can enjoy anime even when it's legally broadcasted in local television. Not to mention the dubs are super awful, plus they dubbed the songs too - sung by someone who is tone-deaf or basically cannot sing at all.

Good thing that at least they published a lot of manga here (even though the censorship is still bothering me) but sometimes the translation quality is pretty awful, and they printed it on thin and low quality paper (one tankoubon in Japan is around 1,2 cm thick and one tankoubon here is around 0,5 cm thick, and it's getting even thinner and thinner each year) with a price which is actually not worth it. But I still buy the titles I'm interested in even if it's too expensive, just to support the creators.

If the viewers have easier access to legally watch/buy them I guess people won't bother pirating things. But sometimes even when the legal ones are easy to get, people tend to go to fansubber because the quality is better there.

jr0904 wrote:

Stark700 wrote:

Yeah good luck with this....

Get rid of one site and more emerges to take its place.

which is why the us should have passed sopa and pipa which would have helped with the online piracy.but the big thing that will help is making acquiring licensing rights more cheaper and easier. also companies like nintendo will have to release pokemon eps with official subs and also have the english dub that's using the original japaneese scripts. otherwise that anime series will always be prone to fansubbing groups. the same with other popular anime series in japan that never got released in the US.

Pardon me, but... do you smoke crack?

I can not believe that anime and manga piracy is such a big deal that the United States government needs to hand the keys to the internet over to big business and sign away freedom of speech, artistic creativity and political discourse.

Sorry, I'm not drinking that cool-aid, brah.

The correct answer to a competitor providing a better service than a business is not to become a draconian fascist state, it is to provide better service than your competition. The Japanese animation industry has proven time and time again that they have no interest in doing so and, since they don't learn from history, are doomed to fail again. It is the definition of insanity, after all.

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