Forum - View topicThe X Button - Equal Crime
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Yttrbio
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I mean, what else would you expect someone to conclude? |
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thenix
 Posts: 265 |
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Good comments and discussion points are ignored here and the people that say outrageous things are attacked because they are easy targets. Then it starts to look like everyone is on either extreme opposite side of the argument. If you are going to respond to someone pick someone who is making a good point for actual good discussion. Usually the people on the extreme viewpoints aren't going to listen to what you say anyways.
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RagnarIV
Posts: 11 |
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You're not quite right on the description; Art of Fighting, Art of Fighting 2, KOF 94, KOF95, and KOF XIII have this mechanic. Yuri's top can also be ripped off in all of these except for the original Art of Fighting, since she is a non-fighting character in that title. A stupid gimmick, to be sure, but I'm not sure it merits quite the same scrutiny as Akiba's Trip. How about Sakura in Street Fighter flashing her panties every other frame?
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jr240483
 Posts: 4377 Location: New York City,New York,USA |
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Well there is a chance it might. personally i hope (though it would be a very high long shot) that it might a a small hint that if there is a SF 5 in the future, there is a chance that the EX characters might also be there. here's to pray that it does happen. |
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Alunimus
 Posts: 117 |
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Sexism, inequality and male power-fantasies blurb? N-n-nope, thanks I'm here for videogames and fun!
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toddc
 Posts: 164 |
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For a little more insight into XSEED's additions to Akiba's Trip, you can check out this thread started by an XSEED translator. He's not speaking in an official capacity, but he gives a good idea of what the company aims to do.
I think one can see King's background as a typical story of a woman trying to play in a man's game and being humiliated for it. Though I'm not sure if it's mentioned in any KoF games, I believe her background describes her entering a tournament only to be kicked out and disgraced once her shirt's ripped and her identity is discovered. That makes it more uncomfortable when the games do the same thing to her for the sake of a gag. There's an important distinction between a character who chooses her risque appearance and a character who's exposed against her will. SNK designed Mai Shiranui for obvious purposes, but within the narrative context of King of Fighters, she wants to dress that way. King's shirt-rip isn't the same, and it doesn't fit her style. It's a shame, because King is one of my favorite characters from the series.
The last paragraph of the contest description should have a link to my e-mail address. |
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Rahxephon91
 Posts: 1859 Location: Park Forest IL. |
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It's pretty hilarious to read all the mental loops and name calling people have to put out just because they feel under attack. Because they feel the status quo is changing.
It's almost as if some here can''t understand whats actually being said. It's like you look at something on the surface level and then say "oh these appear to be the same". You leave it at that and then go about your day. Of course men and women want to look like the super fantasy version of them. Yet why in your quest to discredit the other argument would you ignore that the fantasy goes beyond simply being attractive? It's almost insulting that you think having characters that are attractive to both sexes would mean that it's all very equal because both sexes have something to be attracted to. "Hey are female characters are still shitty, but a dude is hot so we've made the women happy" Lets ignore that in a lot of these things, these female characters lack any sort of agency. yes, I'm sure female readers/gamers/whatever sure are happy simply because you've made an attractive female character they can be happy with. Never mind that this female character is only in servitude to the male characters or even the male player itself. Lacking a character that can't be removed from the main character. Having a role simply to be at service at the male player's desires. But it's ok because women like pretty girls to and the characters are pretty. Nevermind that pretty much everything else about the character is something no one would want to emulate. That's really the problem I have with a lot of these games. The female characters are always made to be enduring merely because they are cute/sexy characters that the target otaku audience can be attached to. These female characters are molded into specific character types mearly to make the male player happy. They have no real purpose beyond checking off that checklist. "We got the cute sister character for that innocence angle". "we got the mysterious female character for the strange girl angle". "We got everything to make male gamer happy". Female characters designed and written in servitude to that type of audience is not somthing I find attractive. I don't find females who are in servitude to me sexy. I find female characters like Ashe from Final Fantasy XII attractive. She has her own motives and missions not related to filling some character type that lonely dudes like. I find Bayonetta enduring because her sexuality is'nt presented in service to me. It's not like in some of these otaku games where you have the aggressive female character who gropes females for contrived fan service scenes. or who endlessly hits on the male insertion character. No, her sexuality is her own and there to serve her character. To underline her playful personality. It's not attempting to mentally jerk me off. I could care less about Akibra's Trip. It looks like a pretty crummy game. Even if it's attempting to satire the otaku pandering stuff, it seems to actually do it in a way that celebrates it. Not make fun of it. Yet, at the end of the day it's harmless tna that I don't think means or says anything. I simply don't care about that subject material. Though I find it funny that someone would try to claim video games are the only meduem that faces these problems. That's rather ignorant. Beyond the fact that as a growing medium it only make sense it go through these growing pains. Sorry, people from all walks of life play games. It only make sense that games take a look at themselves as they move past this "all boys club" mentality. But it's rather dumb to say no other medium gets this. Comic Books have a constant critique of how they represent thier female characters and minorities. To the point that you have these companies trying to adress this. Why did Marvel make a point to make Ms Marvel Captain Marvel and change her outfit? Then make the new Ms Marvel a minority? Because american comic books have gotten the same exact critue about representation that games do. It's pretty stupid to claim movies don't. Right now Lucy has inspired plenty of articles about the role of female action heroes. Twilight brought forth discussion on how Hollywood has been ignoring the female market. This and minority leads have been a constant discussion in movies. The roles of female characters are constantly critiqued. Does Hollywood do anything? Maybe not, but then you complain that video game developers are aware of the issue and trying to address it? So do you want them to be like Hollywood and play it safe? Or would you rather video games actually address these issues? Make up your mind. Though at this point I guess we've gotten to the post where people want to ignore this argument because video games are supposed to be about fun. How dare we question the subject matter are video games handle. They are just toys. |
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egakiar444
Posts: 5 |
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Hey Todd, thanks for the column. fudge these guys if they don't like that you're willing to actually engage in criticism of games. Don't start leaving the analyses of creepy fantasies like Akiba's Trip out just because yappy not-so-nice-people hate treating the medium like a real artform, rather than just porn. You're analyses are usually fair and informative to read. Thanks again!
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Shippoyasha
Posts: 459 |
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For one, she is not really wearing panties. It's her bloomers. It even looks pretty fluffy even in the 2D games. |
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Shippoyasha
Posts: 459 |
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Oh the good old 'you stupid people don't understand' strawman.
So you judge something on how it looks compared to what it actually is. That's absurd to say the least, because a lot of what you prefer a sexy game to be actually is present in Akiba's Trip games. Most of the protagonist and main players in this game are in fact females. The male protagonist hardly even has much of an agency. The female characters almost have all the agency in this game. And it does say some things about the otaku and akiba culture. It parodies a lot of elements of the subculture and the over the top nature of fanservice. It's not something you take at a face value. The sexuality in the game is more comedic than anything.
Not every game has to be for everyone. A lot of fanservicey games, whether catering a more male or female demographic all deserve to exist. That's why it's called a niche game. And funny how people keep attacking Akiba for being male oriented only. It actually has a fair share of female fandom as well. The entire 'boys only club' element is really uncalled for. Because there's an actually booming gaming market that is for girls only in Japan.
All those victim play is kind of ridiculous to be honest, because there actually is a long history of diversity in comics, especially in the indie scene. The over the top nature of costumes in superhero fare is the same for male characters too, who are just as sexualized as any female character is. Sometimes even more so.
But it is. It is and should always be about fun. Especially if they want to be parodies and irreverent games. There's plenty of games that takes themselves much more seriously. And it's a shallow argument to say porn isn't art. It is artistic in its own right. Last edited by Shippoyasha on Thu Jul 31, 2014 3:34 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Ojamajo LimePie
 Posts: 766 |
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I'm just disappointed that Xseed has chosen titles that focus solely on fanservice, instead of providing good story/game content with a side of fanservice. (In other words, where's my English-language Vita versions of Fate and Little Busters?)
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Rahxephon91
Posts: 1859 Location: Park Forest IL. |
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@Shippoyasha
Strawman? I'm not sure how you could be so blind as to ignore lostunes excellent post that says exactly that. He waves away any critique of having attractive female characters because "oh well attractive female characters are wish fullfilment for women too". Please learn what a strawman argument is. And absurd to judge a game based on what it looks like? Are you dense? I can only a judge based on whats put in front of me. All the trailers, marketing, promo, or whatever about the game has told me this is a game I don't want. The satire is lost on me when it seems to be doing exactly the same thing to the same effect of what it's attempting to satire. I find nothing comedic about the animated cut ins when you strip specific characters which look exactly like the ones you'd find in any fan service game that wasn't supposedly satire. Plus the actual game part looks like crap. Thats not absurd. I'm sorry I'm not going to be sold on something that looks unappealing to me. Yet, I also said it looks harmless. I made no real judgement about it because I don't care about it. It looks like another otaku pandering game. You want to claim it's a bit more self aware then fine. I believe you. It seems to be about everything it's making fun of. Even the male nudity wasn't in the original Japanese or new PS4 version I believe. Just because it makes fun of this stuff dosen't mean it dosen't celebrate this stuff. I don't understand or want to celebrate this stuff so the game is'nt for me. And please I never said all games have to be for everyone. You're pulling the starwman now. I said that a medium as a whole is allowed to look at it itself as it grows. Nowhere did I claim all games need to be made for everyone or that your fanservice games don't deserve to exists. Find a line where I said fanservice games shouldn't exists. You won't. Of course there's a booming market of games for women. That's the entire point. Games are getting bigger and it only makes sense for the arguments to pop up. And there it is. The you claimed I was making a strawmen but in you're little(and very wrong) comic talk you made my point clear. Yes male characters are drawn in super awesome fantasy versions of the male stereotype. Yet they sure aren't put into sexy poses to show thier assess or chest merely because they happen to be a gender. That's the point. Please, you're insinuation that people complaining about this stuff are crying about being victims is insulting. Many times female characters have been written in demeaning ways. This is not some made up issue. Pretty dumb to try and downplay something thats been a huge source of debate in American comics. Yes there is a long history of diversity in comics. Just as there are in video games. So because it's there in some capacity we should just be happy about it? Again statements like that seem to argue for a "shut up, everything is fine" approach. I didn't say anything about porn. Nor did I make any claim about art and if Akiba's Trip is whatever. I don't really care. What I said is the game looks to have everything it's supposedly making fun of and thus looks to be nothing more then that. Cool, that it makes fun of that stuff. Too bad it did'nt do it without basically doing what all that stuff does. Kind of hard to take it seriously. Kind of like when a game makes fun of game conventions like "fetch quests" but then makes you do fetch quest. I mean it's not really funny when you're doing the same thing. The promo material for this game sure doesn't lead me to believe anything else. |
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enurtsol
 Posts: 14761 |
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Well, despite all the criticisms about the dearth of minority leads in Hollywood --even from us here regarding the remakes like Akira-- the common leads continue to be popular with most people, so why question change. Aren't we ourselves being "social justice warriors" here regarding Hollywood? What if they satire minorities like Borat did, including other Asians? Akiba's Trip satirizes many things, but in order to satirize something, ya first have to admit it that it's a thing, so props to that (ex: Japan is noticeably patriarchal society, so they make fun of that). Anyways, what would be funny is if artists themselves develop more "social justice warriors" games and present "social justice" game characters, then check what the reactions would be about artistic expressions. 
IIRC that's what they said at Debbie Does Dallas. 
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Shippoyasha
Posts: 459 |
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I wouldn't say Japan is noticeably a patriarchal society as it's pegged to be. Family finances for example, are traditionally handled by the woman of the family. In fact, it has been the cultural norm for hundreds of years. Some of the earliest Japanese leaders were in fact female as well. Not to mention a lot of mythological lore and gods of the nation are female.
Yeah, schlocky, ridiculous pervy stuff may be really hard to be identifiable as high art. Though I think it's an easier case to be said for drawn porn and erotica. Not surprising that many hentai and ecchi artistry has been featured in high profile museums as well. |
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CrownKlown
 Posts: 1762 |
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This is my problem. Akiba is one niche title, it will be lucky to sell 50K copies. You have a have a handful of other games like criminal girls and dragon crown, but these games account for what less than a percent of the games released in a given year. A single triple A title like Mass Effect or GTA sells ten, maybe a hundred times this number. I think that is the issue. People like Todd and others harp on games like Dragon Crown that are niche games targeted at a small group like they mean something. I honestly don't think anyone would have even noticed or cared about Dragons Crown had the controversy not come up. Who has such low self esteem that is offended by big breasted characters in a game that not too many people remember and even less played. Same thing with the censoring issue going on. How many of those who have a problem with Criminal Girls are actually going to buy it if it is censored? Probably close to zero. Its not a game that is going to really affect anything. So I really don't understand the need to make this some kind of social commentary, just report about the game, say you don't like it and move. But to try to turn a game called Akiba Undressed into some social fight would be like an alien coming down to earth landing in the Sahara and concluding the Earth is uninhabited. |
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