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REVIEW: No Game, No Life Episodes 1-12 Streaming


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jymmy



Joined: 11 Nov 2011
Posts: 1244
PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:43 pm Reply with quote
Cyclone1993 wrote:
As for the Steph issue, I feel like there's a lot to be done with her character. The way she has been structured as always being weaker and dependent on Sora and Shiro could very well play into a future plot. Maybe she ends up helping them in a game, and they end up respecting her. Who knows? I personally didn't find the mistreatment of Steph anything other than funny, and an opportunity for fanservice. Even if she was deliberately putting herself into a lot of those situations.


Take it with a grain of salt, but someone on a website I frequent said that in a future volume spoiler[she winds up a top-tier competitor through the experience she gained losing to Blank so many hundreds of times]. Kind of like Medaka Box's spoiler[Kumagawa, whose thing is that he always loses and thus becomes stronger than everyone else].
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DuskyPredator



Joined: 10 Mar 2009
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Location: Brisbane, Australia
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 12:01 am Reply with quote
I think the review was rather fair, although in my opinion ignored some of the fun in the series, and that a number of the apparent issues were actually rather meta. For example fan service was kind of flipped on its head, the girls all losing their clothes in the word game was not in my opinion just a show to the audience but a display of Sora's character. It explicitly said that there was absolutely nothing to see, asked the audience if it was still sexy, and turned out to be plot relevant as it revealed later that Sora was trying to distract her from what he was really doing, playing the fool. Jibril was far from what an angel character should be like, and Izuna herself was a surprize as she enjoyed the attention and only really started to have fun when she turned into a horrifying beast mode.

In my opinion the show did things and then put it up to the audience and asked if it still completed its purpose. The siblings are super comfortable with each other, but there seems to be no fluster of embarrassing sexualisation, is it still incestuous like? Jibril may seem kind of naïve and not understand human concepts, but once caused heavy destruction for hitting her head, is she angel like? Steph constantly fails and is forced into love sick mode, yet she acts incredibly responsibly and is competent in "real world" situations, is she still comic relief? Sora believes that humans can achieve greath things and is a firm believer in its potential, but constantly says he hates people and seems to mess around, is he still humanity's hero? Shiro always follows her brother and his choices, but can practically be more demanding, an instigator of a pervy wishs, and breaker of comic relief, is she still a little sister sidekick?
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Chagen46



Joined: 27 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 12:16 am Reply with quote
Cyclone1993 wrote:

One thing that always annoys me in reviews of the series is how the leads are unbeatable. That's the point of the series. The joy isn't from wondering if they will lose... It's how they dominate everyone else. The how is important. Watching them figure out how to win is what makes the series so entertaining.


Because that is extremely boring. There's zero tension when the heroes win all the time.

Thankfully, in NGNL, the heroes aren't actually unbeatable. Blank is actually a good example in my eyes of a duo of well-written heroes--they do not simple roll over the competition without even lifting a finger (like good ol' Tats of Mahouka fame...), they actually are challenged and yet manage to always get by and figure out genius solutions to their problems.

I find it extremely bizarre that you said "The joy isn't from wondering if they will lose", because to me that was the joy. During the spoiler[chess game against Kurami, where Sora was actually near-loss and had seemingly no options], I was actually floored that an anime had actually put its main characters in danger. That's when I knew the show was a keeper. You can see it all over the show--the Shiritori game, the VR game, the spoiler[disappearance of Sora for an episode]...NGNL is that rare LN-based anime where the victories of the heroes aren't cut-and-dried.

Yes, we know Blank will find a way and kick ass. But we know that for most stories--the hero DOES usually NGNL elevates above the competition because we're never quite sure HOW Blank will win, and when they manage to come up with genius solutions on-the-fly, you're like "HOLY SHIT THAT WAS AWESOME".

Bottom line, NGNL is good because there's actual suspense, tension, and uncertainty about what will happen next, something a vast-amount of action LN/anime lacks. Which is actually kind of sad in a way given that this is Writing 101, but I've already accepted that LN's are literally the bottom of the bottom of the barrel when it comes to writing quality so when a story that actually even tries to aspire to more like NGNL comes along, I'm stunned and awed.
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Spleen



Joined: 29 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 2:23 am Reply with quote
Genius. Nothing much left to be said. The galaxy-destroying shiritori game was epic, superbly original stuff. It didn't even lose anything by me not speaking Japanese (and therefore not able to anticipate the syllable-play).

Regarding the Steph issue, I can see both sides. If you can't watch a girl being stripped nearly naked, humiliated, mind-controlled and forced to bark like a dog, well, I'm hardly going to tell you that that's a bad thing. But if Steph was a man, no-one would have any problem at all, and if you can get over that taboo, it is bloody funny. Not because it's happening to a girl, but because it's brilliant slapstick and comic timing.
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Cyclone1993



Joined: 05 Jul 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 2:31 am Reply with quote
Chagen46 wrote:
Cyclone1993 wrote:

One thing that always annoys me in reviews of the series is how the leads are unbeatable. That's the point of the series. The joy isn't from wondering if they will lose... It's how they dominate everyone else. The how is important. Watching them figure out how to win is what makes the series so entertaining.


Because that is extremely boring. There's zero tension when the heroes win all the time.

Thankfully, in NGNL, the heroes aren't actually unbeatable. Blank is actually a good example in my eyes of a duo of well-written heroes--they do not simple roll over the competition without even lifting a finger (like good ol' Tats of Mahouka fame...), they actually are challenged and yet manage to always get by and figure out genius solutions to their problems.

I find it extremely bizarre that you said "The joy isn't from wondering if they will lose", because to me that was the joy. During the spoiler[chess game against Kurami, where Sora was actually near-loss and had seemingly no options], I was actually floored that an anime had actually put its main characters in danger. That's when I knew the show was a keeper. You can see it all over the show--the Shiritori game, the VR game, the spoiler[disappearance of Sora for an episode]...NGNL is that rare LN-based anime where the victories of the heroes aren't cut-and-dried.

Yes, we know Blank will find a way and kick as. But we know that for most stories--the hero DOES usually NGNL elevates above the competition because we're never quite sure HOW Blank will win, and when they manage to come up with genius solutions on-the-fly, you're like "HOLY SH THAT WAS AWESOME".

Bottom line, NGNL is good because there's actual suspense, tension, and uncertainty about what will happen next, something a vast-amount of action LN/anime lacks. Which is actually kind of sad in a way given that this is Writing 101, but I've already accepted that LN's are literally the bottom of the bottom of the barrel when it comes to writing quality so when a story that actually even tries to aspire to more like NGNL comes along, I'm stunned and awed.


I was never on the edge of my seat in wondering if they were going to win or not, because the way I saw it, they were destined to win. That doesn't mean you can't enjoy the game, and watch as they struggle to come up with their strategy. That's what I find enjoyable about the series. Not if they would win or not, how they would develop their strategy. and win.

In a way its kind of like a mystery series. The detective (Sora) figures out the case, and makes the arrest. Then he has to explain it everyone else, so that you can see his reasoning behind it. He's explaining his thought processes, as we see him put his plans into place that will allow Blank to dominate. When someone chooses to watch or read a mystery series, the detective will almost always solve the case. Does that mean people shouldn't look into the series because they know the outcome? Of course not, watching the detective piece the mystery together is the fun part. In my opinion similar rules apply for NGNL. At least the series doesn't use the fabled deus ex machina trope as much as it could have.

One of the biggest complaints that I see though relates to the fact that there is no danger for the main characters because they will ALWAYS win. I disagree with that statement. Sure, they will always win, but watching them develop the win against impossible odds is what makes it fun. A lot of reviewers don't see that, they think that there isn't any tension in the series because the outcome is already decided.

A good metaphor would be, "We know where our destination is, but that doesn't mean we can't have fun a long the way."

I agree with your analysis of the series. They are interesting characters, even if there's never really any thought of them losing. They have to keep up their win record after all!

I loved this series, and I hope it gets a sequel. If not I've already got the first few volumes of the Light Novels downloaded.
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Ali07



Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 3333
Location: Victoria, Australia
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 8:16 am Reply with quote
I'm a little bored right now, so I'd like to give replies to what I assume are rhetorical questions posted by DuskyPredator. Laughing

incestuous like? - Romantic relationships were never explored in this anime. Some read into the "kiss" scene between Shiro and Sora from the game against Jibril. They've coupled this with the constant physical contact between them and came to a conclusion. Perfect for shipping Shiro and Sora. Laughing

I never thought they had an incestuous relationship, but there's clearly enough there for some to ship.

angel like? - I never saw her as an angel due to what they explained happened in the past with the Flugels. Yeah, looks were contrasted by destructive tendancies. We see something similar in anime a lot, tsundere. Both are deceptive.

she still comic relief? - Yes. Exploration of her ability to handle the real world workings of the kingdom are lightly touched upon. You can read into it as much as you want, but it wasn't really explored too much on screen, especially when compared to the on screen time where Steph was the butt of the joke.

he still humanity's hero? - I never took it as him hating people, rather he is anti-social. Which isn't surprising, as he is meant to be a NEET/hikikomori. If he hated people, he wouldn't be as close to the cast as he is.

As for seeing the potential in humans, he has himself and his sister as examples. Shiro was probably the example for Sora. So it's not hard to see where that thought would come from.

is she still a little sister sidekick? - I would say yes. Whenever she took the lead, it was because she was handed the reigns by Sora. They had to take Sora out so she could take the lead.

Personal opinion - I find that having ambiguity or meta aspects in a narrative tends to bring out opinions that, at times, pay too much credit towards the creators. It is a risk that a creator takes, and it just doesn't click with everyone. Clearly, NGNL is one such instance for me.

Chagen46 wrote:
Thankfully, in NGNL, the heroes aren't actually unbeatable.
-SNIP-
Blank is actually a good example in my eyes of a duo of well-written heroes--they do not simple roll over the competition without even lifting a finger (like good ol' Tats of Mahouka fame...)
-SNIP-
Bottom line, NGNL is good because there's actual suspense, tension, and uncertainty about what will happen next, something a vast-amount of action LN/anime lacks.

Will address these in order, trying to cut down the length of this post...

But, when did they lose? I found that they were chosen by Tet for this reason, they never lose.

On Tatsuya, we're talking about a guy with military experience, along with being extremely intelligent, that gets to put that to use in a setting where his "competition" are teens, in most instances. I'd be surprised if he wouldn't outclass them.

Shiro and Sora come to a new world and outwit all the locals they encounter. The chess game is an example of Sora outwitting a native by having the chess pieces do something that, seemingly, no one in that world did before. How old is Jibril, close to a hundreds or thousands of years old? Someone who's lived out hundreds/thousands of years acquiring knowledge got beaten by a teenager. Can see why some find BLANK overpowered.

On suspense, tension, and uncertainty, I agree that many action series miss these ingredients.

Though, I never felt suspense or tension when watching NGNL. I'd say uncertainty was there, because there were times where I couldn't figure out how they'd win (which was most of the time).

Cyclone1993 wrote:
A lot of reviewers don't see that, they think that there isn't any tension in the series because the outcome is already decided.

A good metaphor would be, "We know where our destination is, but that doesn't mean we can't have fun a long the way."

I fail to see where you address the lack of tension...? I did have the thought, "How are they going to pull of the win now?" But I never felt like there was tension, because it was clear they would win. It was all down to curiosity for me. They were going to win, I just didn't know how. The metaphor you use is apt for my experience watching this. Enjoyed seeing how they went about their wins, but I always knew they would win.

To me, tension would come about due to a belief in the possibility of loss. At the end of a lot of stories, you know the MCs are going to win. I found that the difference here is they never suffered any set back, because the only way they could suffer a set back would be by losing a game. Guess that, for me, that is where the basis for the premise of this series kind of hurt it.

When the basis of your enemies attacks are through games, and the MCs are almost always the only ones involved, it takes away the tension in this series. And, when the supporting cast are involved, there is no risk to them losing, as the actual loss never hinges on them and they risk nothing by partaking in the game.

Finding I'm coming off rather negative towards NGNL. Laughing

I'll say, the show is good, I enjoyed it. Seeing how they would win was almost always interesting. It was rare that I could figure out how they'd win, or aspects of their plans, and that was great.

But, I just don't seem to connect to the (words failing me right now) "deeper" aspects in the show some seem to be, from my point of view, reading into it.

What a horribly long post...but it helped alleviate my boredom for awhile. I do wish this wouldn't have of been so long, but I felt like these were points that I wanted to touch on.
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Ohoni



Joined: 10 Jun 2003
Posts: 3421
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:06 am Reply with quote
No Game was unquestionably my favorite series of last season. I could not wait from episode to episode. I get the criticisms of it, even I found the fanservice a bit much, but it was all in good fun. The Steph torture also had it's own heart to it, as she was so hopelessly naive that she really needed a little toughening up. Wink
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Admiral Pizzaman



Joined: 08 Apr 2014
Posts: 504
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:09 am Reply with quote
Quote:
What a horribly long post...but it helped alleviate my boredom for awhile. I do wish this wouldn't have of been so long, but I felt like these were points that I wanted to touch on.


Don't worry. It may be really too lengthy but I enjoy reading it especially the part on how well you analysis it everything on DuskyPredator's post.

Maybe because I just happen to be more free - time, silly me. At least, your efforts was not in vain. Hope you take it as compliement.
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HeeroTX



Joined: 15 Jul 2002
Posts: 2046
Location: Austin, TX
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:18 am Reply with quote
Seraphic Moogle wrote:
HaruhiToy wrote:
Quote:
The pair are always abusing and enslaving Steph, who can do nothing to protect herself.


I take exception to this. In fact it is BS. Steph is victimized by nobody but Steph herself, as was shown before Blank even arrived. She was spoiler[playing poker against a cheater and losing steadily.] If she wants to "protect" herself all she had to do was stop challenging Shiro after it became abundantly clear she could never win.

In nearly every instance Steph was abused and taken advantage of. It was no lesson when the goal was to humiliate Steph. Was the dog ears/tail a lesson?

First, I think the Steph stuff was BOTH fanservice and "teaching". The fanservice because "obviously", but the lesson is obviously there also. The VERY beginning of Sora/Steph (making her fall in love with him, etc.) is Sora LEARNING the rules of the world, he needs to know that in order to advance. He CONSTANTLY points out to Steph that she needs to understand things and figure out how they work if she wants to WIN. The absolute most TELLING bit of their interactions are twofold:
#1. Steph (in this season of the anime) is exactly what people THOUGHT her grandfather was. ie. Someone who throws herself at her opponent with no real plan but an expectation of "they have to lose EVENTUALLY". As is proven, her grandfather actually HAD a plan and was able to make the opponent lose "eventually" because of what was gained from the previous attempts. Steph is NOT learning from the early attempts. (the wagers must be "equal" (so to speak) so some of her "humiliation" is a result of her own goals since she is the one making the challenges)
#2. More than ANYTHING else, if you want to see explicitly what Sora is doing watch the challenge where Steph makes a bet one when the bird will fly away. Steph is NOT thinking ahead and Sora lays that out for her. If his one goal was purely humiliation he'd NEVER explain any of this and instead just abuse the heck out of her.

There are many similarities to the early parts of "Gamblefish" which is a manga about (as the name implies) gambling or the movie "Rounders", both of which point out that if you think the "game" is only about the pieces on the board or the basic "rules" then a really experienced player will beat you. An interesting aspect of this is games like Chess or Go, when you reach later stages of the game, it can look to an inexperienced player/observer that you have many options, when in reality you have very few (if any). The difference is how far ahead you can look. Steph's problem is (in the beginning) she doesn't "look ahead". If the games did not have real consequence for Steph, it'd be like playing poker with "play money". If you haven't done that, do it sometime, you'll ALWAYS have people that go all-in with nothing because if the bluff well they get a great reward and if they lose "who cares, it's not REAL money anyway".
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AnimeKnight2034



Joined: 07 Jan 2014
Posts: 46
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:28 am Reply with quote
Spleen wrote:
Genius. Nothing much left to be said. The galaxy-destroying shiritori game was epic, superbly original stuff. It didn't even lose anything by me not speaking Japanese (and therefore not able to anticipate the syllable-play).

Regarding the Steph issue, I can see both sides. If you can't watch a girl being stripped nearly naked, humiliated, mind-controlled and forced to bark like a dog, well, I'm hardly going to tell you that that's a bad thing. But if Steph was a man, no-one would have any problem at all, and if you can get over that taboo, it is bloody funny. Not because it's happening to a girl, but because it's brilliant slapstick and comic timing.


Yup. It's too bad that people's puritan values and the PC police don't allow them to look past the fanservice and see the amazing jokes. Need to be more open minded people.
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kayori1928



Joined: 28 Apr 2013
Posts: 26
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:40 am Reply with quote
In No Game No Life you already know the main characters will win against all races and become the new God together, but its always interesting how they always pull out a win. The journey is more important than the ending in this type of series. I found it to be a very fun and enjoyable anime. One of my faves this year.
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Michael Nathanael T.





PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 1:49 pm Reply with quote
The best anime about gaming where the main protagonists stuck in a fantasy world of game (like Sword Art Online's Aincrad) but way more awesome than any anime about gaming. The art is extremely beautiful (A+), story is super (B+), animation is supreme (A), music is masterpiece (A+). I love this anime and the only question is "When will the second season air?"
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fullmetalgirl21



Joined: 25 May 2014
Posts: 37
Location: Seattle
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 2:55 pm Reply with quote
I won't deny that NGNL has flaws. The fanservice got a little tiresome at times and the relationship between Sora and Shiro confused me a bit at times, but moments like shiritori game and the glitched out ending made this show awesome despite the flaws.

I've already rewatched it once when I forced it onto my brother. I'm really hoping for a season 2.
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Gina Szanboti



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 8:37 pm Reply with quote
Spleen wrote:
If you can't watch a girl being stripped nearly naked, humiliated, mind-controlled and forced to bark like a dog, well, I'm hardly going to tell you that that's a bad thing. But if Steph was a man, no-one would have any problem at all

I would. I don't mind embarrassment - that can be funny or cute, and is often self-inflicted. But I draw the line at humiliation. I don't find it funny (not a big fan of slapstick either), and even perfect comic timing can't make it funny to me. I don't even like it when a bad guy who richly deserves his downfall is taken down by humiliating and debasing him, instead of just defeating him.
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Tuor_of_Gondolin



Joined: 20 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:47 pm Reply with quote
Keep in mind that Steph *agreed* to the terms every time she went up against Blank. You have to wager something if you want something (which she did). I also think that this is Blank's tough love towards Steph (well, except near the beginning with Sora telling her to fall in love with him). From the very beginning, they've tried to explain to her how she's approaching games all wrong, but she WOULD NOT LISTEN; this is obvious because she doesn't change her tactics, regardless of how many times she loses. And it's not that she's stupid, it's that she is *stubborn*: she simply refuses to see how she's going wrong and clings to her notions instead.

I think that by next season, we'll see her start to alter her approach to games. I really can't feel very sorry for what's happened to her because IMO she brought most of it onto herself. If you bang your head against a wall, you shouldn't blame the wall for the lump you get as a result.
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