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REVIEW: No Game, No Life Episodes 1-12 Streaming


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YotaruVegeta



Joined: 02 Jul 2002
Posts: 1061
Location: New York
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 10:06 pm Reply with quote
Chagen46 wrote:
Cyclone1993 wrote:

One thing that always annoys me in reviews of the series is how the leads are unbeatable. That's the point of the series. The joy isn't from wondering if they will lose... It's how they dominate everyone else. The how is important. Watching them figure out how to win is what makes the series so entertaining.


Because that is extremely boring. There's zero tension when the heroes win all the time.

Thankfully, in NGNL, the heroes aren't actually unbeatable. Blank is actually a good example in my eyes of a duo of well-written heroes--they do not simple roll over the competition without even lifting a finger (like good ol' Tats of Mahouka fame...), they actually are challenged and yet manage to always get by and figure out genius solutions to their problems.

I find it extremely bizarre that you said "The joy isn't from wondering if they will lose", because to me that was the joy. During the spoiler[chess game against Kurami, where Sora was actually near-loss and had seemingly no options], I was actually floored that an anime had actually put its main characters in danger. That's when I knew the show was a keeper. You can see it all over the show--the Shiritori game, the VR game, the spoiler[disappearance of Sora for an episode]...NGNL is that rare LN-based anime where the victories of the heroes aren't cut-and-dried.

Yes, we know Blank will find a way and kick ass. But we know that for most stories--the hero DOES usually NGNL elevates above the competition because we're never quite sure HOW Blank will win, and when they manage to come up with genius solutions on-the-fly, you're like "HOLY SHIT THAT WAS AWESOME".

Bottom line, NGNL is good because there's actual suspense, tension, and uncertainty about what will happen next, something a vast-amount of action LN/anime lacks. Which is actually kind of sad in a way given that this is Writing 101, but I've already accepted that LN's are literally the bottom of the bottom of the barrel when it comes to writing quality so when a story that actually even tries to aspire to more like NGNL comes along, I'm stunned and awed.


I think the issue I had with Blank isn't that they win all the time, but they declared "Blank never loses" which sets a tone with your audience, and turns some people away.

Even freakin' YuGiOh gave you a few episodes before you realized that he was OP.
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Ali07



Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 3333
Location: Victoria, Australia
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 10:44 pm Reply with quote
Admiral Pizzaman wrote:
Quote:
What a horribly long post...but it helped alleviate my boredom for awhile. I do wish this wouldn't have of been so long, but I felt like these were points that I wanted to touch on.


Don't worry. It may be really too lengthy but I enjoy reading it especially the part on how well you analysis it everything on DuskyPredator's post.

Maybe because I just happen to be more free - time, silly me. At least, your efforts was not in vain. Hope you take it as compliement.

Laughing I appreciate that someone actually took time to read that monster of a post.
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HaruhiToy



Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 4118
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 9:38 am Reply with quote
Tuor_of_Gondolin wrote:
Keep in mind that Steph *agreed* to the terms every time she went up against Blank. You have to wager something if you want something (which she did). I also think that this is Blank's tough love towards Steph (well, except near the beginning with Sora telling her to fall in love with him). From the very beginning, they've tried to explain to her how she's approaching games all wrong, but she WOULD NOT LISTEN; this is obvious because she doesn't change her tactics, regardless of how many times she loses. And it's not that she's stupid, it's that she is *stubborn*: she simply refuses to see how she's going wrong and clings to her notions instead.

ToG you have it exactly right but from what I see in this thread it will be an uphill battle to convince most people. Including the reviewer who threads this aspect of it through the whole review.

The thing about Steph is she is stubborn and doesn't know when to quit, but she also never just sits down and cries for herself. For some reason a lot of the audience seems to think they need to pity her when she won't do that for herself. Instead of that I wonder WTF there is not one of her countrymen -- any human at all -- who is there to aid and support her when she needs it and she is ultimately doing it for them. I haven't read a word -- even in this review -- of outrage about that.

It appears she is exactly the personality type who would go up against Blank again and again and throw everything into the pot including her last shred of clothes and dignity. But the other virtue she has is that she isn't in it just for herself. She is trying to save her grandfather's people. I think Blank respects her for that more than they respect anything. That is why Shiro and Sino can make use of her to make the cause move forward.

As I said in the anime forum thread: Steph is adorable and she is indispensable.
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HeeroTX



Joined: 15 Jul 2002
Posts: 2046
Location: Austin, TX
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 9:42 pm Reply with quote
Gina Szanboti wrote:
Spleen wrote:
If you can't watch a girl being stripped nearly naked, humiliated, mind-controlled and forced to bark like a dog, well, I'm hardly going to tell you that that's a bad thing. But if Steph was a man, no-one would have any problem at all

I would.

I just went back and watched the episode where Steph keeps betting (and losing) and is gradually stripped of her "dignity", and it leaves me to call BS on claims that you would object if it was a guy. Why? Because except for the dog thing (admittedly), they do the EXACT same thing to a bunch of nobleMEN from the kingdom that want to cause trouble. We don't linger on it because they're not important, but it doesn't change that they do exactly the same thing, if anything even MORE ruthlessly than they do with Steph (since I really do believe they are TEACHING Steph rather than straight up humiliating like the nobles), and yet no one says anything.
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leatherhead333



Joined: 15 Aug 2013
Posts: 1187
Location: Kansas
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 10:17 pm Reply with quote
No one says anything because they didn't draw out their humiliation like they did with Steph. People wouldn't be annoyed if Steph was mistreated a couple times, like the people you pointed out. But they ARE annoyed that just about every episode has Steph being humiliated, stripped, made to look a fool etc. It's really just irritating after a while. Now if they had done the same things to other people an equal amount of times as they were done to Steph your argument might hold weight. But since they didn't it doesn't.

Now I for one like the lesson that Blank teaches Steph. I thought it was great how they gradually came to a more mutual understanding of each other throughout the show. Unfortunately Steph's character can be summarized into 3 percentages

50% Fanservice
45% Watson
5% Intelligence

Turn down the fanservice to like 10% and I'd be cool with it.

I really wish they had made Steph's intelligence more prominent in the show because in the end she mostly just gets told what to do or told why the super convoluted plan of Blank's worked. I mean for peets sake she was bloody killed in the game against Jibril. But Sora and Shiro assure her that without her help they would have not won the game. Uh..............sure whatever but can someone explain to me how she didn't have any real misgivings about it? Sure she didn't really die but she still FELT it. I'd be pretty pissed off about it personally. But of course it isn't really an issue as it's addressed in a comedic moment. Kind of a waste if you ask me.
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HeeroTX



Joined: 15 Jul 2002
Posts: 2046
Location: Austin, TX
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 11:39 pm Reply with quote
leatherhead333 wrote:
No one says anything because they didn't draw out their humiliation like they did with Steph. People wouldn't be annoyed if Steph was mistreated a couple times, like the people you pointed out.

Keitarou (Love Hina)
Chisame (Negima)
Naruto (Naruto)
Shinji (Evangelion)
Watanuki (xxxHolic)
Kawachi (Yakitate Japan)

ALL of those characters (granted, one is female, but was consistently considered one of the fan favorite characters of Negima) pretty much go through the SAME THING as Steph, and aside from MAYBE Keitarou, I don't remember a bunch of people complaining about how those characters are treated.

I'd agree with your 50% fanservice thought, but I'd point out so are: Shiro, Jibril and most of the other female characters. I mean, it has a (IMO) clever hook, but it IS clearly somewhat of a harem show. I'd point out also that Steph is only considered "humiliated" because she gets embarassed by her situation. I'd also point out that during the Shiritori game, ALL the girls (Steph, Shiro, & Jibril) ALL get put naked and Steph is really the only one that reacts negatively.

I mean, if you don't like fanservice, that's totally fair (I think its overdone in the show honestly) but I think it's silly to focus on the treatment of the characters that's OBVIOUSLY intended to be the "comic relief".
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potatochobit



Joined: 26 Aug 2009
Posts: 1373
Location: TEXAS
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 12:02 am Reply with quote
I have not seen this yet but I heard it was worth watching.
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Tuor_of_Gondolin



Joined: 20 Apr 2009
Posts: 3524
Location: Bellevue, WA
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 12:31 am Reply with quote
potatochobit wrote:
I have not seen this yet but I heard it was worth watching.

It's on Crunchyroll, so you can watch it for free and decide for yourself. I'd recommend watching it through the "living" chess battle (not the regular one played online in the first episode). If you're not hooked by then, this series probably isn't for you.
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OH&S



Joined: 15 Jul 2013
Posts: 306
Location: Sydney, Australia
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 3:11 am Reply with quote
^
I honestly thought Episode 2 was the one that should sell the series to people. The humour and world building in that episode alone makes the series stand out from the others in the same season.
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Gina Szanboti



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 11327
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 3:39 am Reply with quote
HeeroTX wrote:
Keitarou (Love Hina)
Chisame (Negima)
Naruto (Naruto)
Shinji (Evangelion)
Watanuki (xxxHolic)
Kawachi (Yakitate Japan)

I'm sorry, I haven't seen all of those, but you're going to have to remind me in which episodes Naruto, Watanuki and Shinji were forced to run around mostly naked on a leash, begging and barking like a dog. I don't recall that happening in any of those series. As for the unnamed minor male characters who suffered humiliation, I can't say I enjoyed that either, but, unlike Steph, they were trying to cause trouble and deserved some punishment, they weren't around long enough to mention, and there was a distinct lack of "the dog thing" in their treatment.

I don't think you're quite grasping the difference between embarrassing situations and humiliating and degrading situations. As I said before, I'm usually ok with the former, not so much the latter. I can even bear an instance or two of the latter if it's plot related, but when it becomes a theme, it becomes a problem for me.

And I don't think "Steph had a choice" is really much of a defense. She, like all the other characters, have to do what the writers write for them, and it's the writing I'm taking to task here. They could have chosen other ways to make their points about her personality without going the route they did. I liked Shiro and Sora but I didn't like the casual cruelty with which they were made to "teach her a lesson." And the fact that it's intended to be comic relief makes it all the worse. C'mon, they tied her up in a public street and forgot about her! Not hilarious to me. Ymmv.

I'm just telling you why I didn't like that aspect of the show. I'm not trying to convince you to dislike it. You're welcome to like it if you like it.
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leatherhead333



Joined: 15 Aug 2013
Posts: 1187
Location: Kansas
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 10:36 am Reply with quote
Ah Gina pretty much summed up my thoughts. The only anime I've watched on that list is Naruto and i do not remember at any point him going through the same humiliation Steph has.

The tough love thing to teach a lesson is what I like.
The character half of the time being used as fanservice ploy while being abused constantly isn't.
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YotaruVegeta



Joined: 02 Jul 2002
Posts: 1061
Location: New York
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 11:30 am Reply with quote
Naruto's humiliation has usually been because of the power that was lying within him, not because people wanted to prey on his weakness and use him for the purposed of sexual fan service.

Also HIS NAME IS ON THE SHOW, so his humiliation is shown in a way in which the audience is supposed to sympathize with him. SPOILERS: he gains the respect of his peers and his village, and at the current point in the anime, no one's mocking him.
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ralphmerridew



Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Posts: 70
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 3:44 pm Reply with quote
HeeroTX wrote:
ALL of those characters (granted, one is female, but was consistently considered one of the fan favorite characters of Negima) pretty much go through the SAME THING as Steph, and aside from MAYBE Keitarou, I don't remember a bunch of people complaining about how those characters are treated.


Ushiromiya Battler (Umineko) (only once, though)
Keiichi (Higurashi) probably got something like that.

Quote:
I'd agree with your 50% fanservice thought, but I'd point out so are: Shiro, Jibril and most of the other female characters. I mean, it has a (IMO) clever hook, but it IS clearly somewhat of a harem show. I'd point out also that Steph is only considered "humiliated" because she gets embarassed by her situation. I'd also point out that during the Shiritori game, ALL the girls (Steph, Shiro, & Jibril) ALL get put naked and Steph is really the only one that reacts negatively.


1) Others have tried to justify the first two occasions as teaching her "know when to walk away" / punishing her for not realizing that. In the Shiratori and FPS games, she wasn't making any bad moves.

2) In the Shiratori game, Shiro and Jibril had control over their situation; they could have simply summoned clothing on their next move if they wanted. Steph did not.
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Gina Szanboti



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 11327
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 5:56 pm Reply with quote
@ Yotaru: I still can't even remember him ever being debased and humiliated. Embarrassed, sure, lots of times. Everybody in the series has had embarrassing moments, just like all of us have had embarrassing moments. That's part of life. But being deliberately degraded in a sexual manner for the world to see is not a universal experience by a long shot. Maybe this is why some people aren't recognizing that there's even a difference, if they've never experienced that sort of public shaming.
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HaruhiToy



Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 4118
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 6:42 pm Reply with quote
When i was a kid I felt sorry for the Coyote that chased the Road Runner.
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