Forum - View topicShelf Life - Flowers For Baudelaire
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CrownKlown
 Posts: 1762 |
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Rotoscoping has been around for decades, I am sure most fantasy fans are at least remotely aware of the terrible rotoscoped version of Lord of the Rings. Its not unqiue. Then again I have to come realize that most western anime fans, at least those on these boards seem to have very limited interests outside of anime, and have an attention span of a few years. Hence the "novelty" of things like Psycho Pass, as close to a rip of Minority Report as you can get, and Puellea Madoka a moefied version of Shadowstar Narutaru. Also like someone said they should have just gone straight to live action instead of rotoscoping. Its manga, with its own artstyle that is perfectly fine. This rotoscoping only serves to degenerate the original work and take away from the actual context of the material. It does not serve to enhance anything. Also with all due respect to bamboo, is she not going against the rules of shelf life. She says she would recommend this, but you recommend a show that you think a casual viewer will like. Flowers had it been done in regular anime style like the manga was already a limited audience as its a dark seninen with sexual overtones. With this rotoscope the audience shrinks even more. So I don't see how this can be recommended in good faith. |
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YeNguyen
 Posts: 10 |
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Well, I won't get into the visuals of Aku no Hana since other people in the thread have already argued my point (that it's a perfect expression of the series's themes and tone). I do want to totally give a thumbs up to Bamboo linking the ending theme, though, since guuuh it is just so amazing and easily my favorite ED I've ever heard. Haunting, disjointed, and immediately powerful, I loved hearing it encroach upon the final moments of every episode. Sure, it's a repurposing of an existing (and good) song, but the experimental electronic mix does make this version beautifully distinct. I can't get enough of consciously-art music in my everyday, so this anime was a treasure to me for its subtle, ambient drone score and the ED itself. I hope that more people talk about this series in a better light as time goes on – I really can't see it as anything but an historical turning point.
Last edited by YeNguyen on Tue Aug 05, 2014 2:52 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Barbobot
 Posts: 460 |
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While going the straight live action route would have been a completely viable way to go for this series, I must say I disagree with the rest. I thought the rotoscoping greatly enhanced the show that regular animation may not have been able to do. It helped add to the type of eerie atmostphere the show had going for it and allowed you to see all the nervous fidgeting and twitching of Kasuga. |
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YeNguyen
Posts: 10 |
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I love that it lands in this amazingly uncomfortable middle ground between the reality of filmed actors and the fiction of animated characters. It allows the many instances of disturbing dependence and abuse in the series to be more easily accepted as plot points in an abnormal and heightened set of circumstances, but it also brings them back down to something ultimately closer to real life than we are used to. I firmly believe that Nagahama's directorial choice to use rotoscoping resulted in a series that is better than either pure live action or pure animation could have realized. |
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HaruhiToy
 Posts: 4118 |
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This. I wish FoE was successful enough for them to do another season because I would watch it just for the rotoscope animation. What is also so striking about it is the ability to highlight and omit things that you just couldn't do with other animation methods. They often try but it isn't as effective as what was achieved here. |
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yuna49
 Posts: 3804 |
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It took a page and a half of comments before someone asked to see photos of Bamboo's cosplay? I'm looking forward to seeing her hat!
Get back to me when an American company licenses Dennou Coil, Chihayfuru, and Chi's Sweet Home like Siren has. |
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Errinundra
Moderator
 Posts: 6525 Location: Melbourne, Oz |
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Those posters who argue either that the series should have used the conformist artistic style of the manga or gone the whole way and used live action are misguided. Rotoscoping IS the point of this series.
One of the constant and curious omissions of critics of the TV series is mention of the end of episode animated cameos from the mangaka himself, Shuzo Oshimi, where he makes cryptic, self-centred or provocative comments, the most memorable of which is, "I WILL ROTOSCOPE YOU". Oshimi has famously endorsed the approach the series took with his manga so, presumably, he also endorses the end of episode comments, including this one. What's going on here? My take is this. Among other things, the animated version of Flowers of Evil, in the tradition of The Sky Crawlers, is an allegory for the anime industry and its fandom, most fully articulated in the setting, in all its narrow-minded, rusted decay where only weeds prosper. Kasuga represents the fan who kids himself he is sophisticated (he reads Baudelaire, after all) but, in truth, really wants fanservice (stealing and sniffing underware). The most sympathetic character in the series is Nakamura (perhaps even moe, according to Bamboo) who is Oshimi himself. She is hopelessly constricted and dreams of crossing the mountain of conformity to a world of greater freedom of expression. As this is impossible, her only outlet is self-destructive rage. Within the anime the rage is expressed in the trashing of the classroom and the pointless revolt on the mountain road. For Oshimi it's expressed in the creation of the TV series itself. Just as Nakamura tries to expand Kasuga's horizons, Oshimi and director, Hiroshi Nagahama, are trying to expand ours. Like Nakamura I fear they are doomed to failure. It's brilliant stuff. The rotoscoping is rage directed at us, the fans. It was chosen precisely because it would be unacceptable to the otaku amongst us. To all of you who have been affronted by the aesthetic choices of the series I say you have been successfully trolled. Of course, Flowers of Evil, is much more as well, as Bamboo and Carl Kimlinger in his earlier review demonstrate. For me, it is the most interesting anime since Puella Magi Madoka Magica, if not always the most comfortable to watch.
And Kaiba. And Monster. Now I'm gloating. Last edited by Errinundra on Tue Aug 05, 2014 2:23 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Lavnovice9
Posts: 276 |
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The whole Flowers of Evil thing is one of the more ironic things I've ever seen in anime. The MC is a guy obsessed with a book because he thinks it makes him smarter and better than everyone else, but in the end he realizes he's no better, and actually probably even worse, than all the other people in the world and just a tool, a fake, a typical teenager who wanted to be different and stand out.
A lot of fanbase seems to do with the show the same thing Takao did with Baudelaire. Saying they dont get how everyone else can't be into it, not seeing the brilliance of the crude, ugly art. Saying all its shortcomings are intentional and done on purpose to take the viewer out of their comfort zone. To go against the grain, which implies a grain exists and is worth going against for the sake of going against. That they're better fans or more cultured for being able to appreciate it compared to the majority of anime fans who have short attention spans or whatever other reasoning people have used to justify why nobody but their small clique likes it The parallels between Takao and those kinds of fans is amusing and has been the best part of the anime for me. It brought out the Takao in a lot of people. |
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strawberry-kun
Posts: 301 |
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I couldn't get over the ugly rotoscoping in Flowers of Evil. I've read the manga, and I like that way better. I wish they would have stayed with the more traditional style that the manga used. As it is, I'm glad the anime bombed hard. I really dislike the vocal fanbase for the show for reasons stated in the above post.
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Errinundra
Moderator
Posts: 6525 Location: Melbourne, Oz |
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@ Lavnovice9 & strawberry-kun,
Your posts coming straight after mine is priceless. To strawberry-kun, in particular, has it occured to you that the aesthetic style of the manga may have been foisted upon Oshimi? Last edited by Errinundra on Tue Aug 05, 2014 2:36 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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strawberry-kun
Posts: 301 |
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Your posts perfectly illustrate why I'm glad the show bombed. The show has one of the most obnoxious, elitist fanbases I've seen. It's right up there with Eva. Whatever. I guess I'm part of the uncultured masses that just don't get it. |
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Errinundra
Moderator
Posts: 6525 Location: Melbourne, Oz |
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^
Of course it bombed. People don't like having their eye poked with a sharp stick. Even if it's warranted. |
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The Coffee God
 Posts: 412 |
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animenewsnetwork.com/news/2014-04-28/discotek-adds-chi-sweet-home-and-chi-new-address-tv-anime As an interesting side note to this, Discotek actually announced it before Siren did. Last edited by The Coffee God on Tue Aug 05, 2014 2:58 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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DmonHiro
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Lavnovice9, hold on a moment. By what you're saying, the MC of this show isn't just an average fan, it's the type of fan that defends Aku No Hana. Just as he says commoners just don't "get" the books he's reading, the vocal fanbase of AnH keeps screaming about how regular anime fans just don't "get" AnH. So, really... it's you guys that got trolled.
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strawberry-kun
Posts: 301 |
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Oh, I missed your edit. I haven't thought about it, and I really don't care. To clarify a bit more, it would suck for the author to be restricted to a style that he doesn't want to use, but it doesn't change my opinion of which style I prefer. I don't mind when series use a different kind of style, but I do want something that's at least somewhat visually appealing. When I look at the Flowers of Evil anime, my reaction is split between cringing and laughing. That's probably all I'll say in this thread. |
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