Forum - View topicShelf Life - Flowers For Baudelaire
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strawberry-kun
Posts: 300 |
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I'm sure this was at least partially directed at me, so I'll respond with how I see it. I don't hate everyone who likes the show or anything like that. My irritation comes from the side of the fandom that flat out says if you don't like the Flowers of Evil anime, then you obviously didn't get it or any other BS like that. I can accept that people have different tastes, but when people come out and talk down to me, then, yeah, I'm probably not going to respond in the most polite tone. This show seems to attract those types more than others which is why I said I revel in the show failing. In other words, my irritation is not directed towards the fanbase of the show as a whole. It's directed towards the snobby, I know better than you types that the show attracts. |
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Cerceaux
 Posts: 180 Location: Earth |
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I watched all of Majestic Prince, and it was entertaining enough while I was viewing it, but it didn't leave much of an impression on me. I can't even recall any of the main characters' names at this point. The battles did look good though.
I've watched on episode of the Flowers of Evil anime to sample it, but I stopped there as I'm still (slowly) reading the manga. |
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dudebro
Posts: 42 |
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AnH is "interesting" because of how unusual it is for an anime series in every respect. Unusual to the point that it might not even be anime. But I didn't find it fun to watch. It feels like a dreary indie arthouse movie. I consider it just a curiosity.
It's probably way more difficult to produce a late night drama than a late night anime. The drama industry is all kinds of fucked up, and I don't see a series like AnH getting a lot of interest from networks, sponsors and talent agencies (a movie adaptation would have been more feasible). I'm actually not sure how late night dramas even make any money. AnH pretty much already is a live action drama anyway. |
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Sachiko2010
Posts: 68 |
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Have you even looked at any of "Inside Mari" yet? Is that art style being foisted on him as well? But I guess I shouldn't be surprised that the true-believer defenders of rotoscoping, an animation production style that has been out (as another commenter mentioned in this thread) for decades and decades would stoop to denigrating Shuzo Oshimi's artistic style (which, errinundra in the very same post as I've quoted above, calls "conformist"... as if rotoscoping is somehow this radical departure from the tried and true: it's not!). I honestly can't think of a more insulting and just plain mean-spirited thing you could say to an artist than to call his or her work conformist and foisted upon them. As if they're prostituting their art to make a buck. That's off the charts wrong. |
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Sachiko2010
Posts: 68 |
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I couldn't agree with you more. It attracts a kind of "I'm in the fourth week of my film theory 101 class and we just talked about the many ways of disrupting viewer expectations through editing or film production strategies." Except they don't know yet that at the end of their last grad seminar on the topic (if they make it that long), they'll realize how co-opted those very same strategies have become (invariably always become). I'm looking at you, you Charles Schwab rotoscoped ads, you. |
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nargun
Posts: 924 |
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Threat to identity, I think. If your self-image is of a person who's a fan of anime 'cause it's all experimental, and you run into some program that's making some rather extreme artistic choices but which you don't like... ... then either the show itself must be shit or your self-image must be wrong. |
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kotomikun
Posts: 1205 |
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FoE seems to be one of those intentionally cynical, off-beat (literally, in the ED) and artsy things that critically-minded people almost universally adore. (It's practically their "moe," so it doesn't surprise me that the word came up in the review.) Everyone else has no interest in it, because it is, by design, unpleasant and weird.
The anger comes from the fact that neither side understands how the other could possibly hold such an opinion. How could anyone like-slash-dislike something so awful-slash-amazing? Clearly they're just pretentious-slash-imbeciles! Both sides are offended by the other's negative insinuations about their integrity-slash-intelligence and the flamewar intensifies. It's just like any other polarizing thing, really. I found it dull and the characters impossible to relate to. As a person with absolutely no backbone who was bullied and ostracized in school for years, I don't believe for a second that anyone could be as much of a pushover as the lead, or that teenagers as dedicated to obnoxiousness as Nakamura actually exist. I'm not going to attempt to support my opinion beyond that, though. |
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casualfan
Posts: 333 |
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I have nothing against rotoscope. It's just an artstyle and if done well it can produce a good result. Not the case in FOV though. It's just ugly both in animation and the characters themselves. But then again beauty is in the eye of beholder so some might find it attractive.
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gloverrandal
Posts: 406 Location: Oita |
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How could an artist have their own style foisted upon them? Maybe Oshimi did want to try something different with the anime, or maybe it was the studio's idea, but I doubt he developed his own skills over the years against his will. |
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tuxedocat
 Posts: 2183 |
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I'm glad someone else said this, since the actors, and sets, and locations, and ... pretty much everything, were filmed live-action-style before the rotoscope "filter" (or whatever it is) was applied. If this show had just been promoted as live-action it probably wouldn't generate all the outrage and finger pointing that it gets with every review. For myself, I thought the show was effective, for what it was. I also thought that it was kind of a downer. Not sure if I would want to watch it again or read the manga. The bulk of the entertainment has come from the fans' accusatory proclamations of elitism and snobbery. There has been some pretty goofy "elitism" from both sides of the argument, IMO. heh heh. |
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Cptn_Taylor
Posts: 925 |
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Moe is an aesthetic designed to induce a "protective/ sexual attractive" feeling in the audience. Without the aesthetic there is no moe. For instance can you have a moe feeling versus a character described in a novel ? A novel without images ? No you can't. Moe is inextricably linked to the visual. |
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SiLVER820
 Posts: 37 |
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I'm getting that Flowers of Evil BD as soon as possible. It's a fantastic and fantastically uncomfortable show that I can't wait to see again.
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ANN_Bamboo
ANN Contributor
 Posts: 3904 Location: CO |
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That is only one definition of moe. There are definitions of "moe" that do not include "sexual attractive." You can have protective feelings for something or someone that does not include sexual attraction. Many modern examples of "moe" just happen to fall under a very narrow umbrella. And in fact, you're insinuating that there is only one kind of visual aesthetic that can produce feelings of moe, when that is not true. Someone can feel moe for Chiyo from AzuDai, for example, just as someone can feel moe for Asuka from Eva. You can feel moe for a character that does not have a stereotypical "moe" aesthetic. Nakamura, for some, does invoke feelings of wanting to protect. Her rough, crude, abusive exterior is just a shell for a broken and unhappy interior, and that can invoke feelings of protection. |
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SiLVER820
Posts: 37 |
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I feel that Daryl Surat really struck on what exactly is the disconnect in the discussion of this show: Most Internet media arguments follow a "it was X, therefore Y!" vs "it was not X, therefore Z!" format. FoE they both agree on X.
This type of divide between a thing's fans and detractors doesn't happen often, in my experience. No matter how large the disconnect is, however, both sides should still be able to discuss this show without engaging in identity politics. We're only talking about a piece of media, after all. |
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dudebro
Posts: 42 |
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It's completely up to the viewer whether or not he finds a character moe, and for what reason. The character's appearance is important, but it isn't everything. The author can try to "force" moe by deliberately using attributes that are the most likely to induce that feeling in the viewer, but it's not going to work on everyone. People were "falling in love" with manga/anime characters decades before anyone had thought of the concept of moe.
Yes. |
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