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NEWS: Capcom Sues Koei Tecmo for 980 Million Yen on Patent Infringement


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maximilianjenus



Joined: 29 Apr 2013
Posts: 2862
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 2:20 pm Reply with quote
iloveturkey wrote:

Your problem you keep assuming is that Capcom is holding those games to AAA standards and that's why they're disappointed with sales. They're not. They're holding those games to their own standards, and they've effectively failed to meet even those. I hate AAA gaming too, but let's not use it as some boogeyman scapegoat for all the problems in the world.


capcom sure gives that impression, with their complains about sfxtekken and resident evil 6 sales both fo which sold millions.
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wohdin



Joined: 10 Jun 2011
Posts: 352
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 4:08 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
new content acquired through using a previous game and new software


...What the hell does that even mean? Did Capcom manage to patent the concept of sequels? What the actual hell.
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CrownKlown



Joined: 05 May 2011
Posts: 1762
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 4:16 pm Reply with quote
First of all as far as BOF goes, several companies including Camelot offered to make a BOF game, which basically would have made them money without too much costs. They refused.

Also Dragon Quarter, which BOF, did fairly well in Japan (almost a 150K in its first year which for a jprg not named FF or Dragon Quest is not bad), it sold enough to get a rerelease for the Best series, and got cult hit status in the US. So for a jrpg especially with as drastic a shift as DQ, those sales were not too bad, and this was the last real BOF. I don't know what games you are referring to that sold poorly then.
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Levitz9



Joined: 06 Feb 2007
Posts: 1022
Location: Puerto Rico
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 4:39 pm Reply with quote
iloveturkey wrote:


Mighty No 9 was backed by 67,226 people. Mega Man, even at it's absolute lowest, sold more than 67,226 copies. Mega Man Battle Chip Challenge sold more than that.

You people need to stop using Mighty No 9 as some kind of proof Capcom is dumb for axing Mega Man. It actually proves Capcom right when they can't even muster 67,226 people to care about their property. Mega Man in it's prime, the Battle Network games, could sell over 1 million copies. They weren't holding the franchise to Gears of Duty: Bro Warfare standards, they were holding it to it's own standards it set with previous installments of the franchise. 67,226, when the standard used to be over a million, is a sign of a decline that anyone can see. It's only a niche audience who cares about Mega Man still.

Your problem you keep assuming is that Capcom is holding those games to AAA standards and that's why they're disappointed with sales. They're not. They're holding those games to their own standards, and they've effectively failed to meet even those. I hate AAA gaming too, but let's not use it as some boogeyman scapegoat for all the problems in the world.


This right here, folks. Sure, getting Legends killed off the way it was was a slap to the face... but we had over 21 Mega Man games between 2000 and 2010, and all people did was complain that there were "too many".

Mega Man Zero, Mega Man ZX, and Mega Man XTreme were all perfectly serviceable-to-great games that nobody even looked at for X or Y reason. I won't blame people for not having slavish devotion to a franchise, because that's stupid. But it's not Capcom's fault that Mega Man Zero/ZX sold poorly, or that people prefer their childhood memories of what games were like.
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Sam Murai



Joined: 01 Dec 2006
Posts: 1051
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 4:53 pm Reply with quote
So, I guess we really won't be getting a Capcom vs Koei Tecmo (nor Street Fighter x Dead or Alive) or Street Fighter/Dynasty Warriors mash-up now, will we? Wink

The claims don't sound very unique in terms of usage, as those are ideas that have been employed in other games in the past by other developers. Hopefully, there is something more specific to this, as this looks like a "grab some cash when you can/need to"-type of move that even big companies tend to pull from time-to-time.
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Themaster20000



Joined: 05 Aug 2014
Posts: 863
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 4:54 pm Reply with quote
Levitz9 wrote:

This right here, folks. Sure, getting Legends killed off the way it was was a slap to the face... but we had over 21 Mega Man games between 2000 and 2010, and all people did was complain that there were "too many".

Mega Man Zero, Mega Man ZX, and Mega Man XTreme were all perfectly serviceable-to-great games that nobody even looked at for X or Y reason. I won't blame people for not having slavish devotion to a franchise, because that's stupid. But it's not Capcom's fault that Mega Man Zero/ZX sold poorly, or that people prefer their childhood memories of what games were like.


Am a fan,but it's really hard to argue how Capcom over saturation the market with Megaman games.The whole battlenetwork series is a great example of this. After Legends 2 Capcom really just played it safe,and really never invested a lot of money in the games after that.
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configspace



Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 3717
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 5:05 pm Reply with quote
wohdin wrote:
Quote:
new content acquired through using a previous game and new software


...What the hell does that even mean? Did Capcom manage to patent the concept of sequels? What the actual hell.

I would guess it refers to a DLC system? Like an older game that can be updated with new content.

In any case, this, along with the vibrating controller upon nearby enemies patent may have been granted by the USPTO, but it doesn't mean they're anything innovative or original. It might contain some tiny, tiny component that may be original, but like all patents, are filed as broadly as possible. Working in software dev and following many issues with patents in general, I can tell you that the vast majority of patents are pure bullshit.
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potatochobit



Joined: 26 Aug 2009
Posts: 1373
Location: TEXAS
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 5:58 pm Reply with quote
FREE JAPAN

hideki: are you free today, Japun?

masero: you betcha rawsuit we are desu. woo! Amurica!
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Team Rocket Elite



Joined: 05 Jul 2006
Posts: 36
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 6:05 pm Reply with quote
mangamuscle wrote:
So Capcom is doing the same as SNK, suing another company in the hope they buy them instead of dealing with a long court fight that might delay further installments of their hit series.


The issues are completely different. I doubt many people would claim SNK doesn't deserve copyright over their own original characters and Squaresoft was explicitly using their characters. Not lookalikes of some vague similarity. The exact same characters.

In this case, Capcom was bizarrely awarded patents over basic game elements. Capcom is now trying to use those patents to attack other companies in hopes of they settle instead of gambling to overturning the patent.
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iloveturkey



Joined: 09 Jun 2014
Posts: 70
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 6:42 pm Reply with quote
maximilianjenus wrote:
capcom sure gives that impression, with their complains about sfxtekken and resident evil 6 sales both fo which sold millions.


Resident Evil and Tekken are AAA games, though. RE6 sold quite a bit below 5 and 4, which is why they were disappointed. Tekken at it's peak sold 7 million. They have higher expectations for those franchises.

wohdin wrote:
...What the hell does that even mean? Did Capcom manage to patent the concept of sequels? What the actual hell.


Save files unlocking content, I imagine. The only example I can think off-hand is Lightning Returns unlocks costumes for Lightning if you have a XIII and XIII-2 save file on your PS3.

CrownKlown wrote:
Also Dragon Quarter, which BOF, did fairly well in Japan (almost a 150K in its first year which for a jprg not named FF or Dragon Quest is not bad)


That's a debatable claim. Plenty of RPGs not under FF or DQ's name can sell double that. Bravely Default and Youkai Watch, which were original IPs, sold a lot.
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Mr. slicer



Joined: 07 Aug 2014
Posts: 112
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 7:20 pm Reply with quote
Team Rocket Elite wrote:
mangamuscle wrote:
So Capcom is doing the same as SNK, suing another company in the hope they buy them instead of dealing with a long court fight that might delay further installments of their hit series.


The issues are completely different. I doubt many people would claim SNK doesn't deserve copyright over their own original characters and Squaresoft was explicitly using their characters. Not lookalikes of some vague similarity. The exact same characters.

In this case, Capcom was bizarrely awarded patents over basic game elements. Capcom is now trying to use those patents to attack other companies in hopes of they settle instead of gambling to overturning the patent.


Agreed, whether or not we question the motives of SNK's lawsuit the fact the content in question was owned by them is unquestionable.
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John Hayabusa



Joined: 30 May 2012
Posts: 1270
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 7:56 pm Reply with quote
So much for Ninja Gaiden/Devil May Cry and Dead or Alive/Street Fighter x-overs.
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mangamuscle



Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 2658
Location: Mexico
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 8:37 pm Reply with quote
Team Rocket Elite wrote:
mangamuscle wrote:
So Capcom is doing the same as SNK, suing another company in the hope they buy them instead of dealing with a long court fight that might delay further installments of their hit series.


The issues are completely different. I doubt many people would claim SNK doesn't deserve copyright over their own original characters and Squaresoft was explicitly using their characters. Not lookalikes of some vague similarity. The exact same characters.

In this case, Capcom was bizarrely awarded patents over basic game elements. Capcom is now trying to use those patents to attack other companies in hopes of they settle instead of gambling to overturning the patent.


Reading comprehension problems much? I never said they used the same method, what I did explained is that they are going out of their way to make some money (or get bought in the process, which will make the owners some money) thru lawsuits.

SNK Playmore owns the characters, but by now it should be clear there is no way in hell Square Enix asked everyone except SNK (they probably forgot to ask it on paper due to honor and all that).

Crapcom no doubt got that patents and they will be thrown out due to previous art once the trial is over, but that can take years and affect Tecmo adversely since they will not be able to release games with said patents in the meantime.


Last edited by mangamuscle on Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:48 am; edited 1 time in total
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Primus



Joined: 01 Mar 2006
Posts: 2761
Location: Toronto
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:44 pm Reply with quote
iloveturkey wrote:
The last few games only sold a few hundred thousands world-wide. The franchise is dead, let it go already.


The last few Mega Man games were outsourced and made with a miniscule budget (well, most Mega Man games have low budgets due to hyper release schedule). I have little doubt that Capcom made money on those.

I also have to question your motives when you're telling people to step off well-loved properties that have seen success when Capcom is publishing a sequel/expansion to the giant failure known as Gaist Crusher. They shipped 100,000 copies of that on its first week. It sold 8000 copies to consumers on its first week, and it's likely only moved 30k of that shipment to date despite extensive price cuts.

mdo7 wrote:
What the??? Shocked Shocked

Capcom is sueing Tecmo Koei for patent infringement, so is Tecmo Koei going to countersue claiming Sengoku Basara copied of Samurai Warriors??


Koei Tecmo doesn't own Asian history or the hack-and-slash genre. Sengoku Basara may be an obvious attempt to clone Koei's series, but that's liking Capcom suing KT for Toukiden.

wohdin wrote:
Quote:
new content acquired through using a previous game and new software


...What the hell does that even mean? Did Capcom manage to patent the concept of sequels? What the actual hell.


No, they mean expansion packs.
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razisgosu



Joined: 26 Sep 2012
Posts: 657
PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 12:14 am Reply with quote
This seems like a severe desperate attempt at money from Capcom and I can only see it ending badly for them. They get crapped on enough as it is.
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