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Episode Review: Naruto Shippuden


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Shenl742



Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Posts: 1524
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 4:57 pm Reply with quote
I'm starting to wonder...is it possible for a story or narrative itself to develop Stockholm-syndrome towards it's very own characters?
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irishsaltytuna



Joined: 10 Apr 2016
Posts: 5
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:12 pm Reply with quote
Yeah, I don't think it was the anime's intention to get you to mourn for him. I'm pretty sure they were just trying to convey his entire character as accurately as they could.
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Gina Szanboti



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:44 pm Reply with quote
Episode 472
Quote:
This [episode] features a few genuinely touching moments, which would have been even more emotionally resonant if I weren't sick to death of this character. ... The proceedings became so meandering and repetitive that I was actively hoping for Obito to just shut up and die already. But he's not even gone yet! Judging by the preview, another needless rehash of Obito's past awaits us next week.

While I was thinking about what I might comment on for this episode, the above is practically verbatim what was running through my mind, right down to the you-gotta-be-kidding-me preview.

What his guilt trip down memory lane made me realize though, is that despite being shown his youth in agonizing detail again and again and again, they haven't ever recapped his "present day" activities that I can recall, which has always been hard for me to keep straight what with his variety of identities and blurry connections with Madara. I've forgotten half of it by now, but I don't even care to sort it out anymore. I'm sick of anything to do with him.

I was cheered by Naruto amputating Black Zetsu, which was at least some forward movement of the plot.
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NeverConvex
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 9:40 pm Reply with quote
I've only caught a few episodes of Shippuden this year because I don't have much interest in filler and, well, it's more-or-less all been filler, and of the few, canon episodes I watched, most were really quite terrible. It felt as if they'd fired all their artists and replaced them with at best moderately trained, brush-wielding pigeons; the show I loved so much during the Pain arc seems a distant, mocking memory. And let's not get started on the pacing, or how little I care about Kagura as a villain (good God do I ever wish this story had culminated with Madara)...

But this most recent episode was surprisingly engaging. I don't feel much sympathy for Obito as a character and I don't find Rin's endlessly forgiving attitude of his multitude of dark sins all that plausible or interesting (and I dislike that she's been painted as a one-dimensionally all-forgiving lady-object instead of some kind of person), but the execution was finally on point, the art was passable, Naruto's connection with the dying Obito was believable and even the tiniest bit emotionally evocative, and thank the forty-two lords of anime that, as Gina says, they finally hurt Kagura so this show can actually conclude (after another 10 years of 99% filler and chopping one limb off of Kagura every 25 canon episodes on average, I presume, but conclude nonetheless).
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Skerlly Fc



Joined: 18 Aug 2016
Posts: 79
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 9:22 am Reply with quote
NeverConvex wrote:
I've only caught a few episodes of Shippuden this year because I don't have much interest in filler and, well, it's more-or-less all been filler, and of the few, canon episodes I watched, most were really quite terrible. It felt as if they'd fired all their artists and replaced them with at best moderately trained, brush-wielding pigeons; the show I loved so much during the Pain arc seems a distant, mocking memory. And let's not get started on the pacing, or how little I care about Kagura as a villain (good God do I ever wish this story had culminated with Madara)...

But this most recent episode was surprisingly engaging. I don't feel much sympathy for Obito as a character and I don't find Rin's endlessly forgiving attitude of his multitude of dark sins all that plausible or interesting (and I dislike that she's been painted as a one-dimensionally all-forgiving lady-object instead of some kind of person), but the execution was finally on point, the art was passable, Naruto's connection with the dying Obito was believable and even the tiniest bit emotionally evocative, and thank the forty-two lords of anime that, as Gina says, they finally hurt Kagura so this show can actually conclude (after another 10 years of 99% filler and chopping one limb off of Kagura every 25 canon episodes on average, I presume, but conclude nonetheless).


So, the filler episodes that served to answer people´s questions about Kaguya in the manga, and why she appeared as the final boss outta nowhere, as well as fill some plot holes, were all but nothing? I don´t understand people. They want answers, when they get them, they say that are awful
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Gina Szanboti



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 10:46 am Reply with quote
Well, NeverConvex said s/he didn't care about Kaguya so I presume s/he didn't have any questions to be answered. If that's the case, it's consistent to complain about her filler episodes.

I, on the other hand, am interested in Kaguya, so rushing through her origin story in favor of yet more recaps of Obito's youth, along with other completely unrelated filler is my complaint. Basically, the problem is how poorly they've allotted all the time they feel compelled to spend in stretching this all out for as long as possible. Both Kaguya and Itachi got short-changed in favor of Obito. Practically everyone has gotten short-changed in favor of Obito (and the Ninja Tales series recap) for no apparent reason. Overall, the filler has been a golden opportunity to flesh out many characters that's been utterly squandered at every step, and at the expense of the flow of the main story to boot.
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JaggedAuthor



Joined: 27 Oct 2014
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 10:50 am Reply with quote
Quote:
Even though this episode is technically set mere hours after Obito's initial defeat, Naruto has already moved past the thousands of deaths this villain caused (including Naruto's own parents) and became all-too-willing to regard him as a comrade, going so far as to proclaim that Obito was “awesome” seconds after his passing.


To be fair, Naruto just discovered that their mothers have the same first name.

In addition to heightening my disdain for Obito, all these trips to his past have reminded me of how much I dislike Rin. She's the textbook definition of a non-character, with her sole purpose being to act as an emotional doormat and fridged love interest. Since the show's producers have clearly taken a shine to Obito and will jump on any opportunity to shine a spotlight on Team Minato, I'm surprised there's been no effort to imbue her with a personality or develop her as an actual character.
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Gina Szanboti



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 11340
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 11:57 am Reply with quote
The only reason Sakura has gotten as much development as she has is because she's part of Naruto's team, so she has to justify her existence at least a little bit beyond motivating Naruto by his promise to her. Rin doesn't need development because she's only around for the flashbacks, and can't take precious time away from Obito, except as his motivation and crutch.

Hell, just look at Kaguya, the most powerful character in the series. Who's running her show? Black Zetsu! Her whole story has been about her male relatives and even though he's technically her Will, his voice is still masculine! oO

I'm not sayin' nothin', I'm just sayin'. Wink
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Enturax



Joined: 07 Jun 2015
Posts: 220
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 3:08 pm Reply with quote
Thank god Naruto is going to end pretty soon. Interesting series (certainly not the best, though), but those damn flashbacks are destroying everything!
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NeverConvex
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Joined: 08 Jun 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 3:43 pm Reply with quote
Skerlly Fc wrote:
So, the filler episodes that served to answer people´s questions about Kaguya in the manga, and why she appeared as the final boss outta nowhere, as well as fill some plot holes, were all but nothing? I don´t understand people. They want answers, when they get them, they say that are awful


If we assume that Kagura needs to be the story's final antagonist, then I agree that the semi-filler Kagura-backstory episodes you reference here needed to be done. My complaint is that I don't think her introduction was narratively wise or necessary on any level; we had already had hundreds upon hundreds of episodes in which Madara was well-developed as a part of this world and a natural, nigh-unstoppable threat to the MC and his friends' way of life. I simply don't see any way confrontation with a last-second insert of a barely hinted at villain could be nearly as satisfying as confrontation with a character the show's spent countless hours gradually building up for us as a terrifying and complex foe.

To me, it seems as if the mangaka felt an incomprehensible need to 'up the stakes' by introducing a more-nearly-literal alien/god-like villain, as if every story has to end with the highest possible stakes and the most narratively peerless, incomprehensibly inhuman enemies. I don't see the point in doing that if it shunts aside antagonists (primarily Madara) that've been properly built up throughout the show's history, and I think it came at the cost of replacing a complicated, emotionally and narratively well-developed villain with a bland, underdeveloped and unnecessary evil-god-figure.

I think I'm all the more frustrated by the Madara-Kagura switch because I think one of Shippuden's greatest strengths as a show is its sheer length. The quality of its execution, dialogue, plot, and so on have varied dramatically throughout its run, but it's very difficult not to get the viewer to invest emotionally on some level in your characters when they've spent countless hundreds of episodes hearing about and/or interacting with them. Thus, in my view, replacing Madara (about whom we've heard and/or interacted with constantly, even if often unbeknownst-to-us through his proxy, Obito) with Kagura (about whom we've received a few hints, but those generally less than concrete and few-and-far-between) radically undercuts one of this show's primary emotional strengths.
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Enturax



Joined: 07 Jun 2015
Posts: 220
PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 7:27 am Reply with quote
NeverConvex wrote:
Skerlly Fc wrote:
So, the filler episodes that served to answer people´s questions about Kaguya in the manga, and why she appeared as the final boss outta nowhere, as well as fill some plot holes, were all but nothing? I don´t understand people. They want answers, when they get them, they say that are awful


If we assume that Kagura needs to be the story's final antagonist, then I agree that the semi-filler Kagura-backstory episodes you reference here needed to be done. My complaint is that I don't think her introduction was narratively wise or necessary on any level; we had already had hundreds upon hundreds of episodes in which Madara was well-developed as a part of this world and a natural, nigh-unstoppable threat to the MC and his friends' way of life. I simply don't see any way confrontation with a last-second insert of a barely hinted at villain could be nearly as satisfying as confrontation with a character the show's spent countless hours gradually building up for us as a terrifying and complex foe.

To me, it seems as if the mangaka felt an incomprehensible need to 'up the stakes' by introducing a more-nearly-literal alien/god-like villain, as if every story has to end with the highest possible stakes and the most narratively peerless, incomprehensibly inhuman enemies. I don't see the point in doing that if it shunts aside antagonists (primarily Madara) that've been properly built up throughout the show's history, and I think it came at the cost of replacing a complicated, emotionally and narratively well-developed villain with a bland, underdeveloped and unnecessary evil-god-figure.

I think I'm all the more frustrated by the Madara-Kagura switch because I think one of Shippuden's greatest strengths as a show is its sheer length. The quality of its execution, dialogue, plot, and so on have varied dramatically throughout its run, but it's very difficult not to get the viewer to invest emotionally on some level in your characters when they've spent countless hundreds of episodes hearing about and/or interacting with them. Thus, in my view, replacing Madara (about whom we've heard and/or interacted with constantly, even if often unbeknownst-to-us through his proxy, Obito) with Kagura (about whom we've received a few hints, but those generally less than concrete and few-and-far-between) radically undercuts one of this show's primary emotional strengths.


I agree with ya, but why are you calling her KaguRa? ;p
Anyway, Kishimoto probably wanted to make a plot twist and make us feel less bored about the final fight that could be predictable otherwise.
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NeverConvex
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Joined: 08 Jun 2013
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 3:03 pm Reply with quote
Oof - Kaguya, duh! Thanks, haha. I've watched so little of Shippuden's fillerific nonsense this year I've forgotten its final antagonist's name. I'd blame that on the fact that she's largely a brand new, last-second insert, but that would seem shameless... Razz
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Kadmos1



Joined: 08 May 2014
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 6:39 am Reply with quote
Nagato lost his parents in a war and was responsible for the death of thousands but he was able to bring many back. Obito becomes evil from getting friend zoned. Had Obito brought back many of the people whose deaths he was responsible for, I might feel for him. I am glad he died.
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Gina Szanboti



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 11340
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 8:40 am Reply with quote
Either you don't know what friend zoned means, or sitting through Obito watching Kakashi kill Rin 18 times still wasn't enough for it to sink in. Confused
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Kadmos1



Joined: 08 May 2014
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 6:09 am Reply with quote
I still am calling it "friend zoned"/"unrequited love". I am curious if he ever realized that Kakashi killed Rin on accident. Also, wanting to create an imaginary world where you could see your crush by depriving people of free will and giving them an eternal slumber is whack to me.
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