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EP. REVIEW: Fate/stay night: Unlimited Blade Works


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stilldemented



Joined: 16 May 2015
Posts: 186
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 9:10 pm Reply with quote
Key wrote:

Um, no. It was just boringly repetitive. It rambled on ad nauseum on topics that could have been summed up just fine in just a few minutes. At times it seemed to be in love with its own philosophizing. And while F/Z was guilty of this, too, it didn't bog that series down anywhere near as much.

While I've never done the Fate VN, I have read through a few others, enough to recognize this seems to be a common problem with the format more than a problem particular to Fate.


Haha. Fair enough. It does indeed do that. I enjoy it for loving it's philosophizing though. I'm eccentric like that. Razz

A funny example, I suppose, would be the stereotypical "guy at the local coffee shop". He keeps talking about how he's deep. So so deep. But that's all he ever talks about, which kinda makes him shallow. Cool

I watched a few live reactions where people had trouble wrapping their head around what was going on. The whole Berserker vs Gil fight in episode 15 with Illya's backstory for instance.

It was a weird thing where casual viewers had a grasp on it but asked a few questions for clarity's sake. Which of course led to information dumping. haha. Laughing Cool
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Videogamep



Joined: 10 Jun 2014
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Location: CA
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 9:37 pm Reply with quote
stilldemented wrote:
Key wrote:

Um, no. It was just boringly repetitive. It rambled on ad nauseum on topics that could have been summed up just fine in just a few minutes. At times it seemed to be in love with its own philosophizing. And while F/Z was guilty of this, too, it didn't bog that series down anywhere near as much.

While I've never done the Fate VN, I have read through a few others, enough to recognize this seems to be a common problem with the format more than a problem particular to Fate.


Haha. Fair enough. It does indeed do that. I enjoy it for loving it's philosophizing though. I'm eccentric like that. Razz

A funny example, I suppose, would be the stereotypical "guy at the local coffee shop". He keeps talking about how he's deep. So so deep. But that's all he ever talks about, which kinda makes him shallow. Cool

I watched a few live reactions where people had trouble wrapping their head around what was going on. The whole Berserker vs Gil fight in episode 15 with Illya's backstory for instance.

It was a weird thing where casual viewers had a grasp on it but asked a few questions for clarity's sake. Which of course led to information dumping. haha. Laughing Cool


It seems like Nasu's particular style of philosophizing is the kind of thing where it either works for you or it doesn't. It never really bothered me (outside of episode 19, which was too repetitive), but I get why some people don't like it. It seems like the biggest weakness this adaptation had was the need to fill 25 episodes, which led them to stretch some of the Shirou-Archer philosophizing more than they needed to. If it had been cut down to 22 or so, they would have been able to pace it a lot better.
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Key
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Joined: 03 Nov 2003
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Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 9:42 pm Reply with quote
Videogamep wrote:
It seems like the biggest weakness this adaptation had was the need to fill 25 episodes, which led them to stretch some of the Shirou-Archer philosophizing more than they needed to. If it had been cut down to 22 or so, they would have been able to pace it a lot better.

Absolutely agreed.
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Animerican14



Joined: 19 Aug 2006
Posts: 953
Location: Saint Louis, MO
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 10:03 pm Reply with quote
After all that Nasu had said about wanting visuals to fill out the details that weren't provided by words themselves (IIRC this was from an interview on the first BD Box), I think the fact that so much time was dedicated to the very discussion of ideals was to reflect the characters themselves as stubborn creatures stuck on the same lines of thinking. Well, that, and ufotable might've over-scheduled how many episodes they had to do. (They could have developed more original content to improve upon the pacing of these twenty-six episodes, or just devote more time to some of the core content we already got. Episode 25 was such an unexpected treat!)

Archer probably would've turned his commentary down if Shirou was much more of a pushover. But of course, just as the Emiya of the future is stubborn, the Emiya of the past is stubborn; the fact they come to blows, and in such a prolonged fashion, shouldn't be too surprising in hindsight. That Shirou won't give in angers Archer, and compels him to dig in his heels in turn. Archer's goal wasn't merely trying to beat Shirou down physically-- he had ample enough opportunity to cut him down before-- but also break Shirou's spirit and thus vindicate himself before him in the process. Running on as low on mana and time as he did, Archer had little else but his words, some swordplay, and his Reality Marble to show where Shirou might someday end up. It's not the greatest storytelling, but I think this apparent redundancy makes a lot of sense, viewed from this perspective.

Did it ever get particularly repetitive outside of the Archer episodes for you, though, Key? (Yet even with those monologues, I think there was enough variance with the ways they were expressed and the moments that they were expressed in to make it interesting for me. Which may seem strange, because I had more lukewarm feelings about the conflict when I first read the VN.) Outside those episodes, I felt the core story content kept itself generally diversified. And I know you said that you agreed with 95% of the episode 25 review in an earlier post, but does that also mean you're inclined to recommend a viewing order of episodes 0-13 and then skip ahead to episode 25? Razz
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maximilianjenus



Joined: 29 Apr 2013
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 10:34 pm Reply with quote
Key wrote:
Videogamep wrote:
It seems like the biggest weakness this adaptation had was the need to fill 25 episodes, which led them to stretch some of the Shirou-Archer philosophizing more than they needed to. If it had been cut down to 22 or so, they would have been able to pace it a lot better.

Absolutely agreed.


they should have done more lolirin adventures as fillers, instead of making people actually get bored of ubw (the noble phantasm).
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JacobC
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Joined: 15 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 10:48 pm Reply with quote


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GhostStalkerSA



Joined: 17 May 2015
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 10:50 pm Reply with quote
JesuOtaku wrote:



lol, glad to have done my part in this!
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Videogamep



Joined: 10 Jun 2014
Posts: 564
Location: CA
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:38 pm Reply with quote
GhostStalkerSA wrote:
JesuOtaku wrote:



lol, glad to have done my part in this!


I am the bone of my thread
Complaining is my body and mocking is my blood
I have created over a thousand posts
Unknown to mods, nor known to restraint
Have withstood arguments to create many replies
Yet those hands will never hold any agreement
So as I pray, Unlimited Forum Works.

I'm honestly surprised one of these hasn't been posted yet.


Last edited by Videogamep on Mon Jun 29, 2015 1:48 am; edited 1 time in total
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iathomps



Joined: 08 Nov 2007
Posts: 68
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 12:18 am Reply with quote
0seveN wrote:
The idea that the UBW anime needed to be self contained is just silly in the first place. It's almost like complaining about the last episode of .hack//Sign or Roots because you're anime-only and refuse to play the games.

I feel like the fact that TM made the mobile version of Fate free from UBW's announcement up to the S2 BD release was a good indication that you should probably read it.


oh, god, we are bring up .hack? so to get the full story, you need to read a novel, watch a 26 episode anime series, play four games, watch the four OVA anime episodes bundled one with each game, read four more novels, and read a three volume manga (and/or watch the 12 episode anime adapted from it, but that isn't canon so it won't really help you), preferably in that order. That's not counting the non-canon spinoffs or the sequel project, which consists of much the same combination again. Very Happy
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Errinundra
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 3:58 am Reply with quote
jl07045 wrote:
I wrote:
The core of the problem is that Shirou is a dull character with a simplistic dilemma.

What do you think his dilemma was about?


To be or not to be a hero. Or, whether a hero does more good than harm. Shirou's ideal is that they do; Archer's experience is that they don't and that the desire to be a hero is just a manisfestation of one's ego. (Compare with Sayaka from PMMM: does she want Kyousuke's wish to come true or does she want to be the person to make his wish come true?) An array of heroes from history and legend are presented as exemplars. At one extreme is Arturia whose selflessness historically doomed her to failure; at the other is the pure ego of Gilgamesh. Despite evidence to the contrary and despite winning the lottery with Rin, Shirou decides to be a hero of the people anyway.

(Sorry about the delay in my reply. I made my earlier post just before I left for work; I've not long arrived home again.)
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Hameyadea



Joined: 23 Jun 2014
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 4:27 am Reply with quote
Videogamep wrote:
It seems like the biggest weakness this adaptation had was the need to fill 25 episodes, which led them to stretch some of the Shirou-Archer philosophizing more than they needed to. If it had been cut down to 22 or so, they would have been able to pace it a lot better.


Technically, the show started with episode #0, and both that episode and episode #1 had the run time of 45 minutes (sans commercials), the runtime of 2 episodes. So this show had the equivalent of 28 episodes in total.

Food for thought.
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HughAlexander



Joined: 25 May 2015
Posts: 51
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 5:45 am Reply with quote
Hameyadea wrote:
Videogamep wrote:
It seems like the biggest weakness this adaptation had was the need to fill 25 episodes, which led them to stretch some of the Shirou-Archer philosophizing more than they needed to. If it had been cut down to 22 or so, they would have been able to pace it a lot better.


Technically, the show started with episode #0, and both that episode and episode #1 had the run time of 45 minutes (sans commercials), the runtime of 2 episodes. So this show had the equivalent of 28 episodes in total.

Food for thought.

You are forgetting the mid season finale, which was another double length episode making it a total of 29, not including Bluray additions in the first half and whatever we're getting in the second half.
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Merostay



Joined: 19 Oct 2014
Posts: 108
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 5:47 am Reply with quote
first season blu-ray additions add up to 5-6 minutes
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Hameyadea



Joined: 23 Jun 2014
Posts: 3679
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 5:53 am Reply with quote
HughAlexander wrote:
You are forgetting the mid season finale, which was another double length episode making it a total of 29, not including Bluray additions in the first half and whatever we're getting in the second half.


Forgot about that. So it won't be strange if by the end of it, this show will have 30-episodes worth of content. Shocked
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HughAlexander



Joined: 25 May 2015
Posts: 51
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 5:57 am Reply with quote
Merostay wrote:
first season blu-ray additions add up to 5-6 minutes

Yea but from the run time season season bds will add 25+ minutes.

errinundra wrote:
jl07045 wrote:
I wrote:
The core of the problem is that Shirou is a dull character with a simplistic dilemma.

What do you think his dilemma was about?


To be or not to be a hero. Or, whether a hero does more good than harm. Shirou's ideal is that they do; Archer's experience is that they don't and that the desire to be a hero is just a manisfestation of one's ego. (Compare with Sayaka from PMMM: does she want Kyousuke's wish to come true or does she want to be the person to make his wish come true?) An array of heroes from history and legend are presented as exemplars. At one extreme is Arturia whose selflessness historically doomed her to failure; at the other is the pure ego of Gilgamesh. Despite evidence to the contrary and despite winning the lottery with Rin, Shirou decides to be a hero of the people anyway.

(Sorry about the delay in my reply. I made my earlier post just before I left for work; I've not long arrived home again.)


You are missing way to much from their conflict honestly, which is the fault of trying to simplify it, especially when it has more to do with regrets than heroism. Archer regretted his entire life because he failed to do what he set out to do, leading him to make the contract. Shirou on the other hand decided not to regret his choices, regardless of where it took him. One made his ideal his end goal, the other made his ideal a way to live by. That is what their conflict is about. Well in part at least.

It's a take on the idiom, the journey is better than the destination, or shoot for the moon, you'll land among the stars. Those who fail are those who don't try.... ect ect ect.
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