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EP. REVIEW: Fate/stay night: Unlimited Blade Works


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Veniamin



Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Posts: 215
Location: Miami
PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 7:37 pm Reply with quote
WestCoastAnime wrote:
Gabbo writes a glowing review, and you guys fixate on one line. Seriously?


A review is not invulnerable from any counter-criticism.
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ViscontPenRoth



Joined: 10 Sep 2013
Posts: 14
PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 7:42 pm Reply with quote
konqueror wrote:
There's a mistake here, because every TMfan loves Emiya Shirou. Only the ones who watched the 2006 anime and didn't read the VN hate Shirou.

Also, the reason why you didn't like the VN it because its translation is awful. See this picture for reference.

If those two could be "the better translated" than the one people have, the differences look to be very minor. I know Gabriella played the VN, and the main problem she and others who were reading it with her had, was the sexism, not the awful translation.


Last edited by ViscontPenRoth on Sat Oct 18, 2014 7:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Stall_19



Joined: 07 Mar 2013
Posts: 78
PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 7:46 pm Reply with quote
We really didn't need that gigantic image to know the translation is pretty bad. Though even with perfect translation the pacing would still be a gigantic issue for people who didn't have as much free time as I did when I played it.
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Azure-Wind91



Joined: 31 Jul 2013
Posts: 168
Location: South Carolina
PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 7:49 pm Reply with quote
Veniamin wrote:
WestCoastAnime wrote:
Gabbo writes a glowing review, and you guys fixate on one line. Seriously?


A review is not invulnerable from any counter-criticism.


Except the part you want to criticize isn't part of the actual review. This is a review of the anime NOT the VN. The comment about the VN is the reviewer explaining their experience with the franchise.
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I3uster



Joined: 04 Sep 2014
Posts: 45
PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 7:50 pm Reply with quote
Nasu doesn't realize that people won't remember the ~clever foreshadowing~ he did 50 hours after they actually read a paragraph of jargon gibberish.

but if you have eidetic memory you can make some gasps of awe at his prowess i guess
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whiskeyii



Joined: 29 May 2013
Posts: 1655
PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 7:56 pm Reply with quote
As someone who knows almost nothing about Fate/Stay Night (except for who Saber is and that Rin is a tsundere; really that's all I knew), I really enjoyed these episodes. I'm aware of the reputation the original adaptation has for being confusing, but this adaptation feels very straightforward and surprisingly light on exposition. Very few "as you know" sentences, which is nice.

I also liked how Rin was characterized (I typically hate tsunderes, but she has some nice nuance to her), and that Shirou had some personality to him (my friend who watched the original Fate/Stay Night said he was irritatingly milquetoast and bland).

My only niggles with the series so far (and they may explain it later) is that Rin didn't seem to really know Sakura all that well, so it was hard for me to believe that she reacted to what Lancer did so strongly. I wonder if they have some sort of relationship that we'll see get addressed later? Oh, and figuring how the landlady's daughter, Sakura, and Shirou were all related to each other took a bit of work til they showed Sakura and the other lady leave Shirou's home. Till then, I'd thought the landlady's daughter adopted Shirou, and Sakura was her daughter or something. ^^; But for the main stuff, it's goooood! Definitely going to check out Fate/Zero once this is over (because people have warned me it'll spoil my Fate/Stay Night experience).


Last edited by whiskeyii on Sat Oct 18, 2014 7:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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shakir0247



Joined: 02 Sep 2014
Posts: 57
PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 7:56 pm Reply with quote
So is A a perfect score? I don't usually get too hung up on scores, since they can mean different things to different people, but a perfect score is something that's reserved for something all-round outstanding is it not? And as much as I liked the first two episodes and have nothing bad to say about them the only truly outstanding aspect of Fate/stay night so far is the animation.

My only experience with the franchise is marathoning Fate/Zero a few weeks ago so maybe I'm missing something here, but so far it just seems like an intentionally slow(which works fine I think), solid start of what could end up being an excellent show. I don't know what Shirou was like originally but I still found him to be fairly bland here, and certainly far less interesting and nuanced than Rin. I actually thought Rin would be the main character because episode 0 focuses mainly on her and she appears front and center in the poster on Crunchyroll, and as it dawned on me that Shirou is going to be the MC instead I couldn't help but feel very disappointed.

Bottom line; It's a very solid and promising start but I just don't understand how it warrants a perfect score.

I suppose this is an inherent problem with reviewing individual episodes before a series is finished. The setup may be great but you can't simply assume that the pay-off will be great as well.
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JacobC
ANN Assistant Editor


Joined: 15 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 8:01 pm Reply with quote
Stall_19 wrote:
We really didn't need that gigantic image to know the translation is pretty bad. Though even with perfect translation the pacing would still be a gigantic issue for people who didn't have as much free time as I did when I played it.


Yeah, that image...

Both of those translations are terrible. The second one makes more sense, but all that tells me is that the original version was poorly written. There's a language barrier, sure, and so that's very much a thing for discussion of that game, but damn, that segment of prose there? Pretentious as hell. Overwrought, purple, entirely unnecessary to the story...just ugh.

What I'm saying is, there's definitely a lot of validity to the whole "Nasu is not a good writer" thing. "Ideas guy," yes, "writer?" Well...
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Stall_19



Joined: 07 Mar 2013
Posts: 78
PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 8:03 pm Reply with quote
whiskeyii wrote:
Definitely going to check out Fate/Zero once this is over (because people have warned me it'll spoil my Fate/Stay Night experience).

Fate/Zero doesn't spoil anything really important in the Unlimited Blade Works route. So it shouldn't ruined any twists of UBW or anything like that.
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Muphrid



Joined: 28 Sep 2014
Posts: 35
PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 8:05 pm Reply with quote
Veniamin wrote:
WestCoastAnime wrote:
Gabbo writes a glowing review, and you guys fixate on one line. Seriously?


A review is not invulnerable from any counter-criticism.


I think it would be fair to criticize the reaction as being rather disproportionate, though.

Is Fate/stay night misogynistic? To me, what is most troubling about the VN is its treatment sexual harassment and violence.

On that example from fate: spoiler[Even if, as that beast's lair post suggests, Shirou is merely concerned for how Mitsuzuri is perceived with her general attitude, the incident involves a "molester" and Shirou treats it quite lightly.]

On later in UBW: spoiler[Or consider how quickly Caster's efforts to break Saber to her will turned into an effort to break Saber sexually.]

On basically all of HF: spoiler[Or how Sakura's violated by Shinji, or continually violated by worms, and this is actually supposed to help justify some sex!]

With all of these put together, I feel Fate/stay night treats sexual violence against women quite lightly, and without all the due respect and consideration the issue deserves.
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Chuee



Joined: 06 Oct 2014
Posts: 31
PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 8:16 pm Reply with quote
Muphrid wrote:
On later in UBW: spoiler[Or consider how quickly Caster's efforts to break Saber to her will turned into an effort to break Saber sexually.]


spoiler[It was never showed or implied that Caster did anything sexual to Saber it's just a thing that people joke around with because of the wedding dress scene. Also Caster is the villian here so even if she did violate Saber I'm not sure how that would do anything besides make you despise Caster.]

Muphrid wrote:
On basically all of HF: spoiler[Or how Sakura's violated by Shinji, or continually violated by worms, and this is actually supposed to help justify some sex!]

With all of these put together, I feel Fate/stay night treats sexual violence against women quite lightly, and without all the due respect and consideration the issue deserves.


spoiler[Sex is justified because Sakura needs mana to live? I don't know why you're getting upset about the fact that she was raped. How you think the game portrayed that in a light manner is beyond me. The whole point of her being raped is to set up Zouken and Shinji as horrible people (we already knew Shinji was an asshole but this reinforces that) since Zouken is the main villian in this route. Sakura is set up to be the heroine with the tragic past in which you're to supposed to sympathize with her because of the terrible things she was forced to endure in her past. If this is somehow misogynistic to you then I don't know what else to say, maybe you're just upset with the fact that a character gets raped. ]
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AsherFischell



Joined: 24 Feb 2014
Posts: 327
PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 8:19 pm Reply with quote
Muphrid wrote:

On basically all of HF: spoiler[Or how Sakura's violated by Shinji, or continually violated by worms, and this is actually supposed to help justify some sex!]

With all of these put together, I feel Fate/stay night treats sexual violence against women quite lightly, and without all the due respect and consideration the issue deserves.


spoiler[Those things don't really justify the sex scenes; they're extremely important in regards to who she is, how she became that way and how she could go so far off the rails. I've always felt that the sex scenes in HF are the only sex scenes in the VN to actually serve a purpose other than titillation. They're the way they are in order to demonstrate the horrifying effect that the years of abuse have had on her. I dislike how far they go and I feel that they Nasu should've tried harder to not exploit her abuse, but they definitely further develop her character and clue us into her mental state.]

One thing that's important to keep in mind is that downplaying of sexual violence against women is a cultural thing in Japan. While that certainly doesn't excuse it, you really can't fault a story that takes place in Japan and is written by a Japanese man for having elements be similar to Japanese culture.
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I3uster



Joined: 04 Sep 2014
Posts: 45
PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 8:32 pm Reply with quote
The fact that it uses sexual violence only in a condemnable way being outstanding is kind of a sad statement about the general attitude of the eroge scene. Neutral

but here we are, in a world with rance and muv luv not giving a shit
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grooven



Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Posts: 1330
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 8:37 pm Reply with quote
vanfanel wrote:
AsherFischell wrote:
Oh, boy. Well, at least that sentence let me know not to read another review by Gabriella.


I haven't read Fate, and thus can't speak to the misogyny issue, but I have read a few chapters of their more recent "Mahoutsukai no Yoru." I want to like it, but the writing style is just driving me up the wall. The writers can't seem to say anything just one time; every little detail has to be expressed in three or four different ways before we're allowed to move on. I don't know if this is a Type-Moon thing or a VN thing, but to me, it feels like they really need a good editor to tighten things up and keep it moving.

If "Mahoutsukai no Yoru" were adapted as a big-budget anime by UFOtable, they wouldn't have time for the repetitive nonsense, and I would totally come away from the first episode feeling that a diamond in the rough had been excavated and polished up.
Well it hasn't happened for the many I've read, Umineko is the worst offender for repeating I've come across. I'm told this is common in visual novels to do this.
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JacobC
ANN Assistant Editor


Joined: 15 Jan 2008
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Location: SoCal
PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 8:37 pm Reply with quote
I3uster wrote:
The fact that it uses sexual violence only in a condemnable way being outstanding is kind of a sad statement about the general attitude of the eroge scene. Neutral

but here we are, in a world with rance and muv luv not giving a shit


It's not...only in a condemnable way. It is fairly often, and that's still gross because it's "rape played for shock value/drama and literally no other reason." But sexual violence/coercion is also a huge part of the sex scenes in the VN as well, and it's definitely played for titillation there.

It's just...it's a really dodgy game, and I'm not surprised that this adaptation has danced away from all the dodgy stuff so far. It'll be interesting once we get to the Caster stuff to see how it plays out, though. Veeeery interesting.
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