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NEWS: U.K. Man Sentenced for Prohibited Images of 'Manga' Children


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818941





PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 4:42 am Reply with quote
Shiroi Hane wrote:
penguintruth wrote:
Being into "sick sh**" isn't necessarily unlawful.

If by "sick sh**" you mean something definable as obscene under British law then being into? No. Possession? Yes. (as are certain activities, obviously, even in private)


The British law is fucked up if it equates drawings to real people.
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Cam0



Joined: 13 Dec 2009
Posts: 4884
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 6:54 am Reply with quote
If it's illegal to watch drawn naked children then why is it not illegal to mass murder people in a video game? Is it because video games have a larger market and big corporations behind them?
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Kadmos1



Joined: 08 May 2014
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:01 am Reply with quote
Cam0 wrote:
If it's illegal to watch drawn naked children then why is it not illegal to mass murder people in a video game? Is it because video games have a larger market and big corporations behind them?


For some reason some people could be more tolerant of sex/nudity than they are of violence.
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revolutionotaku



Joined: 19 May 2011
Posts: 881
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:28 am Reply with quote
George Orwell's book "1984" is becoming a reality.
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Daemonblue



Joined: 05 Jul 2006
Posts: 701
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:37 am Reply with quote
Mind you, this is the same country where a woman got a year in prison for raping a 8-10 year old boy 50 times over the course of 2 years starting when she was 16 (and yes, I know, daily mail, but it had better information than the other articles). It's sickening when you realize some people were calling her the victim while victim blaming the boy, and it's those same kind of hypocrites that you'll see pushing for harsher sentences for having mere drawings.

In this context what this ruling says is having mere drawings of something is almost as bad as actually raping a prepubescent child. That is scary.
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Cptn_Taylor



Joined: 08 Nov 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:04 am Reply with quote
Daemonblue wrote:
Mind you, this is the same country where a woman got a year in prison for raping a 8-10 year old boy 50 times over the course of 2 years starting when she was 16 (and yes, I know, daily mail, but it had better information than the other articles). It's sickening when you realize some people were calling her the victim while victim blaming the boy, and it's those same kind of hypocrites that you'll see pushing for harsher sentences for having mere drawings.

In this context what this ruling says is having mere drawings of something is almost as bad as actually raping a prepubescent child. That is scary.


I'm gonna make just two points :


First : we haven't seen what these drawings are (a lot of difference between Boku no Pico or a Doujin involving sex between characters that are not little boys/girls).

Second : While the guy says he got those images on a legitimate site, the question is where was this site hosted. I have a lot of problems thinking a UK site would post legitmate images that are illegal in the country. It would be like a UK manga publisher publishing illegal content. Doesn't make any sense at all. Different countries have different legislations when it comes to this kind of thing. Just because you can access a legitimate japanese website dealing in lolicon/shotacon for instance doesn't mean it's legal for you download or even view it if you live in the UK or any other country that bans this type of material.


Last edited by Cptn_Taylor on Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:06 am; edited 1 time in total
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cloud8100



Joined: 30 May 2010
Posts: 550
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:06 am Reply with quote
http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29692685

I'll just put this here.

And this is about real children. Unlike the guy in the article that got sentenced for drawings. Rolling Eyes
I hope people can tell the difference.
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TheObserver99



Joined: 19 Oct 2014
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:33 am Reply with quote
This man is not being punished as though there was a victim. His punishment would likely be more severe if he had been abusing actual children/creating actual child pornography.

In Britain, as in many nations with similar governments, you are not charged by an individual, but by the state. And there are a great deal of laws relating to the 'corruption of public morals.' Immoral/degenerate behaviour - even of the victimless sort - is a prosecutable offense, because society and generations of legal minds have deemed that to be right and just under common law.

For better or for worse, courts in the vast majority of developed nations have, at this point in time, have determined that cartoon porn depicting underage characters is intrinsically harmful material, the possession of which is innately detrimental to society.

Britain has protections for free speech and free expression, with some fairly well-defined legal limitations on those freedoms. If you don't like where those limitations are set, and you live there, you are welcome to participate in the political process and lobby to change things. That's how laws evolve in a free society.
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Daemonblue



Joined: 05 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:05 am Reply with quote
It's also one of the few reasons I'm glad I was born in America. For all of her flaws and blemishes, we at least have more common sense regarding these issues. Sure there was the Christopher Handley case, but he chose plead when the case would have gone his way. In another case in Lousiana iirc there was a judge that actually showed rational judgment. In that case the judge stated that while the drawings were probable cause to search the computer (his ex outed him) that the drawings themselves broke no laws.

The fact of the matter is child pornography is so reprehensible simply because there is a real child involved. What makes that sad though is even so-called "professionals" in identifying this stuff have said a 30 year old woman "can't possibly be older than 16."

And yes, I do realize I have a tendency to rant and ramble. That, sadly, was something I was basically taught in school when I had to write 8-10 page essays on stuff like "Atlas Shrugged," and the Bible (in public school no less).

But yes, the problem with saying drawings are bad comes down to them conflating drawings with real, breathing children. It's the same problem with labeling someone a "sex offender" for urinating on a tree in public or, more recently in NY, in public toilets at urinals (I wish I was joking).
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Blanchimont



Joined: 25 Feb 2012
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Location: Finland
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 1:47 pm Reply with quote
Animelover12313 wrote:
I could have sworn I've seen this argument on this page before. Oh wait, I did....... People, it's very simple, look at shows like Oni Chi-Chi or Papa Love and tell me those are not CHILD [expletive] PORNOGRAPHY...

Yes, I do tell you it's not child pornography. It's drawn characters engaging in sexual acts in context of a fictional story. Anything else you wanted pointed out?

Quote:
...I'm pretty sure the girls in there are underage being in Highschool and all.

Drawings don't have ages, so sorry but your statement is invalid.

Quote:
Sure, it's only drawings and it's not "harming" anyone directly. ...

Precisely.

Quote:
... But indirectly, it could influence some idiots out there in the world to do some sick shits. Who to say those people that are watching these things are not going to do them huh? Can you guarantee such a thing?

Indirectly, watching violent movies may influence some sick shit to do violent things. Playing first person shooter may influence some sick shit to do violent things. Can you guarantee they don't? Sorry, but what exactly was your question?

Quote:
This is a sick world we're living in that is fill with sick badstards that cannot differentiate from what's right and wrong so terminate such things would help reduce these shits.

Such things as violent movies or violent games I presume?


Quote:
And before you're going to bring up how Japan has lower rate of rape because such things are legalized then please, show me some proofs that it's actually because of such things. Just because the numbers say so doesn't mean that it's because of such thing that influenced them not to do these things.


I give you wenchance from page 7 to read;

wenchance wrote:
There actually have been some studies into this. I remembered reading something about this "Copenhagen Study" a year or so ago and I think I found it.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1540-4560.1973.tb00094.x/abstract

Basically it says that the INCREASE in pornographic content has resulted in a DECREASE in sex crimes, especially with minors. If only this guy in the UK had someone from something like the CBLDF to support him.


Oh, and your grammar really needs polishing up...
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Akemi Tachibana



Joined: 30 Aug 2014
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 2:18 pm Reply with quote
Ok, that's just stupid and the judge is extremely ignorant and misinformed. Lolicon poses no threat to children or society what-so-ever. Punishing people for fake images is among the dumbest things a court can do. It's a waste of police time and court resources. Worry about protecting human children, not goddn drawings. This is just unreasonable crap from the crappy British (lack of) Justice System.

Drawings don't need legal protection. Has the UK outlawed violent games yet and convicted those that kill in games with murder? Ridiculous.
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Touma



Joined: 29 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 2:48 pm Reply with quote
Animelover12313 wrote:
Who to say those people that are watching these things are not going to do them huh? Can you guarantee such a thing?

Can you guarantee that those people are less likely to do those things if they are not able to watch them?
Can you guarantee that banning any type of fiction will have any positive effects? For anybody?
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Hawkwing



Joined: 24 Apr 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 2:56 pm Reply with quote
This is insane, where's the harm in possessing a bunch of pixels of fictional children? Rolling Eyes
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 3:07 pm Reply with quote
I find it this a bit rich when they can give this guy 9 months, all be it suspended, for possession of alledged pen and pencil drawings of Child porn, yet have turned a blind eye to British Child Sex Gangs operating with immunity for years. Rolling Eyes
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mdo7



Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 6248
Location: Katy, Texas, USA
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 3:10 pm Reply with quote
Mohawk52 wrote:
I find it this a bit rich when they can give this guy 9 months, all be it suspended, for possession of alledged pen and pencil drawings of Child porn, yet have turned a blind eye to British Child Sex Gangs operating with immunity for years. Rolling Eyes


Oh yeah, I've been hearing a lot about that case from BBC, such a sad thing I read about this, and pretty ironic like you describe here.
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