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Megiddo
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 8360
Location: IL
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Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 3:32 pm
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Ryu Shoji wrote: | I'd be quite interested in seeing research that looks into whether there is any link that can be made between such material and a possible rise in actual sexual crimes against minors. |
It's actually the opposite. Because giving someone a safe outlet for their thoughts actually prevents them from doing much more harmful things.
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EyeOfPain
Joined: 14 May 2013
Posts: 312
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Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 3:35 pm
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Minami-Asakura wrote: |
TD912 wrote: | That's the same argument used against video games. Replace "sexual activity with children" with "people getting shot" or any other kind of crime. |
Well, the USA people has some kind of fixation with arms and believing they are a holy right to have and use. You can take anything away from them but not arms, arms are sacred. |
Well, arms are pretty handy. I'm not sure what I would do with myself if I was separated from my arms.
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Gasero
Joined: 24 Jul 2009
Posts: 939
Location: USA
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Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 3:42 pm
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As much as illustrations of children engaging in sexual or suggestive poses does not appeal to me at all, I do have to wonder if threatening people with prison for fictional child porn is the same as actual child porn.
I'm just tossing out a hypothetical, but what is someone made drew or modeled characters with the likeness of a real person and then animated that? There are so many situations here that complicate the issue.
Drawing what looks like a child but is someone who is actually an adult? It just gets crazier from there.
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account343242
Joined: 19 Oct 2014
Posts: 4
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Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 3:43 pm
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Blanchimont wrote: |
Quote: | ...young girls, some in school uniforms, and some exposing themselves... |
Hell, if those are the guidelines, having a single volume of Seven Seas' Dragonar Academy would get the book thrown at you. Let's not even talk about visual novels...
Ironic as it's a UK retailer I use for both...
Gazette wrote: | He added: “It’s clear that that material is available on a legitimate website in this country. |
Uh...
Quote: | Judge Tony Briggs said the pictures were manufactured, stylised, and “repulsive” to varying degrees.
He said: “They are clearly all images designed to make people think they are of children. They are fictitious images in the sense that in no part of them does any real person appear. |
The very style of manga and anime tend to veer towards an infantile look. But that's mostly just an artistic preference. Drawings don't have ages, those can only be stated. This ruling is insane, enough to trump the 'small breasts'-controversy down under...
Hope there's some way this ruling doesn't hold. Otherwise...
To people in UK, hone your skills in encrypting content on your hard-drives, keep safe and sane online and try use local retailers for import goods to avoid Customs... |
Some people in here are outraged for no reason. You're fine with kids being depicted having sex?
Last edited by account343242 on Sun Oct 19, 2014 3:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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penguintruth
Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 8459
Location: Penguinopolis
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Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 3:43 pm
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Thoughtcrime is pretty scary, man.
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jymmy
Joined: 11 Nov 2011
Posts: 1244
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Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 3:44 pm
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EyeOfPain wrote: |
Minami-Asakura wrote: |
TD912 wrote: | That's the same argument used against video games. Replace "sexual activity with children" with "people getting shot" or any other kind of crime. |
Well, the USA people has some kind of fixation with arms and believing they are a holy right to have and use. You can take anything away from them but not arms, arms are sacred. |
Well, arms are pretty handy. I'm not sure what I would do with myself if I was separated from my arms. |
Talking about crime, you would be rendered 'armless, so there is that.
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Minami-Asakura
Joined: 07 Sep 2014
Posts: 104
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Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 3:47 pm
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Ryu Shoji wrote: |
WSJ4L wrote: | The hell? So doesn't this mean UK fans can't own anime like Highschool DxD and High School of the Dead, as that has girls exposing themselves? |
Which makes this all the more confusing, because both are legally available to buy in stores, uncut (with the former having a 15 certificate and the latter an 18).
Quote: | Its danger is that it obviously portrays sexual activity with children, and the more it's portrayed, the more the ill-disposed may think it's acceptable. |
To be honest, this is an interesting point. Although punishing someone for starting what might be seen as others as a slippery slope, just doesn't sit with me.
I'd be quite interested in seeing research that looks into whether there is any link that can be made between such material and a possible rise in actual sexual crimes against minors. |
You dont need any research for what is clear as day. If fictional stuff had any influence you would see extremely high rate of violence, mass shootings, ans mass sexual predators based on what the USA (Hollywood, USA TV = violence, sexual content, videogame industry= shooters) feed the whole world with.
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Minami-Asakura
Joined: 07 Sep 2014
Posts: 104
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Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 3:49 pm
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account343242 wrote: |
Blanchimont wrote: |
Quote: | ...young girls, some in school uniforms, and some exposing themselves... |
Hell, if those are the guidelines, having a single volume of Seven Seas' Dragonar Academy would get the book thrown at you. Let's not even talk about visual novels...
Ironic as it's a UK retailer I use for both...
Gazette wrote: | He added: “It’s clear that that material is available on a legitimate website in this country. |
Uh...
Quote: | Judge Tony Briggs said the pictures were manufactured, stylised, and “repulsive” to varying degrees.
He said: “They are clearly all images designed to make people think they are of children. They are fictitious images in the sense that in no part of them does any real person appear. |
The very style of manga and anime tend to veer towards an infantile look. But that's mostly just an artistic preference. Drawings don't have ages, those can only be stated. This ruling is insane, enough to trump the 'small breasts'-controversy down under...
Hope there's some way this ruling doesn't hold. Otherwise...
To people in UK, hone your skills in encrypting content on your hard-drives, keep safe and sane online and try use local retailers for import goods to avoid Customs... |
Some people in here are outraged for no reason. You're fine with kids being depicted having sex? |
Another troll!
You are fine with -imaginary-fictional- people being murdered right and left in movies, tv and games?
EyeOfPain wrote: |
Minami-Asakura wrote: |
TD912 wrote: | That's the same argument used against video games. Replace "sexual activity with children" with "people getting shot" or any other kind of crime. |
Well, the USA people has some kind of fixation with arms and believing they are a holy right to have and use. You can take anything away from them but not arms, arms are sacred. |
Well, arms are pretty handy. I'm not sure what I would do with myself if I was separated from my arms. |
And you have that cultural thing ingrained in you. Most other countries show you people dont need arms to fell secure or actually be safe.
For starters you dont hear of a new shooting in a school every other month in other countries that do not sell arms to civilians.
Last edited by Minami-Asakura on Sun Oct 19, 2014 3:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
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account343242
Joined: 19 Oct 2014
Posts: 4
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Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 3:50 pm
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Minami-Asakura wrote: |
Ryu Shoji wrote: |
WSJ4L wrote: | The hell? So doesn't this mean UK fans can't own anime like Highschool DxD and High School of the Dead, as that has girls exposing themselves? |
Which makes this all the more confusing, because both are legally available to buy in stores, uncut (with the former having a 15 certificate and the latter an 18).
Quote: | Its danger is that it obviously portrays sexual activity with children, and the more it's portrayed, the more the ill-disposed may think it's acceptable. |
To be honest, this is an interesting point. Although punishing someone for starting what might be seen as others as a slippery slope, just doesn't sit with me.
I'd be quite interested in seeing research that looks into whether there is any link that can be made between such material and a possible rise in actual sexual crimes against minors. |
You don't need any research for what is clear as day. If fictional stuff had any influence you would see extremely high rate of violence, mass shootings, ans mass sexual predators based on what the USA (Hollywood, USA TV = violence, sexual content, videogame industry= shooters) feed the whole world with. |
This is a stupid argument. You don't go watch an action movie because you want to go blow things up. If you masturbate to children being depicted having sex then that obviously has different implications
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Touma
Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 2651
Location: Colorado, USA
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Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 3:50 pm
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I am not going to get into an argument about imaginary pornography.
I am just curious about why the police searched his computer.
Was he uploading images? Was he just downloading? If he was downloading, how did he get caught?
Have the police been monitoring his Internet activity since his previous conviction?
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Megiddo
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 8360
Location: IL
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Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 3:50 pm
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account343242 wrote: |
Some people in here are outraged for no reason. You're fine with kids being depicted having sex? |
People can draw whatever the hell they want to draw.
At the end of the day it's just a drawing.
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WSJ4L
Joined: 19 Oct 2014
Posts: 5
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Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 3:50 pm
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account343242 wrote: | Some people in here are outraged for no reason. You're fine with kids being depicted having sex? |
What if we were into a certain anime for everything else apart from its suggestive content? That would mean we weren't allowed to own the anime at all.
Last edited by WSJ4L on Sun Oct 19, 2014 3:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Ryu Shoji
Joined: 15 Jul 2009
Posts: 671
Location: Cambridge, United Kingdom
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Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 3:51 pm
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Megiddo wrote: |
Ryu Shoji wrote: | I'd be quite interested in seeing research that looks into whether there is any link that can be made between such material and a possible rise in actual sexual crimes against minors. |
It's actually the opposite. Because giving someone a safe outlet for their thoughts actually prevents them from doing much more harmful things. |
If I was conducting such a study myself, my hypothesis would be just that.
I imagine being someone who naturally happens to have a sexual attraction to minors must be horrible; having these urges, but knowing that both morally and legally, it would be bad to act on them. So these drawings of people who don't exist could be a good channel of letting people off-load these urges before they snap and actually end up hurting a real person.
Minami-Asakura wrote: |
Ryu Shoji wrote: |
WSJ4L wrote: | The hell? So doesn't this mean UK fans can't own anime like Highschool DxD and High School of the Dead, as that has girls exposing themselves? |
Which makes this all the more confusing, because both are legally available to buy in stores, uncut (with the former having a 15 certificate and the latter an 18).
Quote: | Its danger is that it obviously portrays sexual activity with children, and the more it's portrayed, the more the ill-disposed may think it's acceptable. |
To be honest, this is an interesting point. Although punishing someone for starting what might be seen as others as a slippery slope, just doesn't sit with me.
I'd be quite interested in seeing research that looks into whether there is any link that can be made between such material and a possible rise in actual sexual crimes against minors. |
You don't need any research for what is clear as day. If fictional stuff had any influence you would see extremely high rate of violence, mass shootings, ans mass sexual predators based on what the USA (Hollywood, USA TV = violence, sexual content, videogame industry= shooters) feed the whole world with. |
Yeah, but research and statistical figures are good for proving points in discussions =3.
Last edited by Ryu Shoji on Sun Oct 19, 2014 3:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
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account343242
Joined: 19 Oct 2014
Posts: 4
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Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 3:52 pm
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WSJ4L wrote: |
account343242 wrote: | Some people in here are outraged for no reason. You're fine with kids being depicted having sex? |
What if we were into a certain anime for everything else apart from its suggestive content? That would mean we weren't allowed to own the anime at all. |
And no one said there is anything wrong with that...This guy who was arrested had Doujin's of loli porn
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Hameyadea
Joined: 23 Jun 2014
Posts: 3679
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Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 3:52 pm
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When old laws are upheld by old men clinging to old values. *sigh*
When I hear or read "lolicon-lover is a pedophilia supporter," I can't help but think "FPS-lover is a mass-murder supporter," "Goth-lover is a cult supporter," "Horror-lover is stalking-supporter," and so on.
I can see why there are voices against lolicons, but there's a big difference between wanking to a fictional drawing, to get up of the chair, change clothes, walk to a place frequented by children and act on one's desires. In the same vain, might as well call all those who watch porn "rapists-to-be," and Grand Theft Auto players "carjackers/run-n-runners-to-be."
Bottom line: is someone watching lolicon hentai? Fine by me. Is that someone also shows interest in child porn, or lurking around places with children? Whoa there buddy, might wanna press the brakes.
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