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EP. REVIEW: Lord Marksman and Vanadis [2014-10-20]


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dtm42



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 6:13 pm Reply with quote
I do find it extremely odd that the War Maidens - warriors and leaders who are of critical importance to the defence of the realm - are allowed to go to war with one another. I mean, the King of Zchted is not happy with Elen for her decision to fight Brune (an enemy country), but he is content to allow his vassals to engage in civil war, spilling the blood of his armies for personal feuds and whatnot?

The heck?

At least with Brune, the two dukes are fighting one another because they are in a genuine (if so far de facto) civil war for control of the country, with the Brunish king either dead, imprisoned, or just too ill to stop them.

Also, what is with Ludmila's family being allied with Thenardier's family? They are from different countries - which are at war with one another, no less - and serve different monarchs. So how was there an important alliance in the first place, and why did Ludmila find it so difficult to break?

Hope has praised the world-building in the show, but to me the world-building has been one of the weakest parts.
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Gistradagis



Joined: 03 Nov 2014
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 6:16 pm Reply with quote
dtm42 wrote:
I do find it extremely odd that the War Maidens - warriors and leaders who are of critical importance to the defence of the realm - are allowed to go to war with one another. I mean, the King of Zchted is not happy with Elen for her decision to fight Brune (an enemy country), but he is content to allow his vassals to engage in civil war, spilling the blood of his armies for personal feuds and whatnot?

The heck?

At least with Brune, the two dukes are fighting one another because they are in a genuine (if so far de facto) civil war for control of the country, with the Brunish king either dead, imprisoned, or just too ill to stop them.

Also, what is with Ludmila's family being allied with Thenardier's family? They are from different countries - which are at war with one another, no less - and serve different monarchs. So how was there an important alliance in the first place, and why did Ludmila find it so difficult to break?

Hope has praised the world-building in the show, but to me the world-building has been one of the weakest parts.

Well, the dragon weapons arr not hereditary. Probably one of her ancestors was married or formed some sort of alliance with the Thernaiders, and Ludmila is simply keeping it alive because of tradition.

When she realizes Tigre is a man more worthy of her alliance, she goes of it. It's still sort of dumb, but at least not "so" flawed.
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dtm42



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 7:16 pm Reply with quote
Gistradagis wrote:
Well, the dragon weapons arr not hereditary. Probably one of her ancestors was married or formed some sort of alliance with the Thernaiders, and Ludmila is simply keeping it alive because of tradition.


I know this show's setting is based on Europe, and God knows there was a lot of alliances between the various families of the continent. But I highly doubt that those alliances were more important to the families involved than their allegiance to their monarchs.

If the countries are at war (like in the show) there is no need to keep an alliance alive in such circumstances. Heck, you probably wouldn't want to anyway because it could make you look suspicious in the eyes of your own country. No-one likes to be branded a traitor or thought to be sympathetic to the enemy. I am reminded of how during World War 1 even the English branch of the Saxe-Coburg and Gothas felt they had to change their names.

Anyway, once war was declared between Zchted and Brune, Ludmila should have been very wary trying to back Thenardier up. Maybe they were trying to make her an honour-bound character, but the writing forgot that she is also a vassal of the King of Zchted and therefore should have been loyal to her own King first. Being chummy with an enemy duke (and honouring a formal alliance is definitely being chummy, her personal feelings aside) just makes her look bad and untrustworthy.

And this brings me back to the real problem. The world-building in this show kinda sucks. We haven't been given any explanation as to why the two kings - who both seemingly have a lot of power and authority vested in them - exercise so little control over their vassals.
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kinghumanity



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 7:39 pm Reply with quote
The pacing is problematic because Lord Marksman's budget is extremely limited, which meant packing 5 book volumes into 13 episodes. If it had even 1/2 of the budget of UBW or Bahamut, it would have 24 episodes, which solves the pacing problem and would have likely made it one of the biggest hits of this season.

Gistradagis wrote:
I think the pacing is hurting the anime. I mean, during last episode, it almost feels like the Vanadis with eyes of different colours has started a war only to meet Ellen and tell her "careful with Ganelon." Did they really fight and lose lots of good men and time for smth that could had been done through a message? Because if the Vanadis really thought she had been set up on that pirate mission, I don't think she would have accepted a peace treaty so easily.

The plot is starting to feel trivial, I dunno.


Elizaveta is a complicated character. She has her reasons to pick a fight with Ellen. The pirate thing is of course mainly an excuse, as Ellen said.

spoiler[1. to distract Ellen from Brune. She also has ties with Thenardier and Ganelon.

2. to settle a personal score with Ellen: Ellen was made responsible for capturing Liza's father after he was accused of treason for tax fraud, and he died during a battle while attempting to escape. Liza burned a village that Ellen grew up in to the ground to control a plague. Liza challenged Ellen to a duel and got crushed.

3. to test her new powers: Realizing she is outclassed by Ellen, Liza made a pact with a demon to become physically stronger in her right hand. Thus Ellen is surprised that Liza is much stronger than the last time they fought, though her dragon skill still overpowered Liza's at the end.

4. She wanted to be acknowledged and accepted by Ellen. Liza was neglected by her father and constantly harassed and bullied by her village for her eye colors, which was seen as unlucky. Ellen helped her out once when she was abused, and since then Liza has looked up to what Ellen had and could do, and was determined to be her equal.]


From the light novel:

Quote:
“I am well aware of your strength from one year ago. No matter the methods, that is not a strength you can achieve within a year. Training aside, other than the strength of your attacks, nothing has changed, it is not so easy to approach me.” Elizavetta: “Nowhere in particular... It is a result of desperate training." Ellen: “I am well aware of your strength from one year ago. No matter the methods, that is not a strength you can achieve within a year. Training aside, other than the strength of your attacks, nothing has changed, it is not so easy to approach me.”")


Also, about the vanadis having alliances with foreign nobles: This isn't silly at all.

Firstly, Brune and Zhcted were not "officially" at war. It was a border scuffle that was mainly used as a excuse to get experience for the Brunish prince and prepare him for the throne. He ended up dying instead.

Zhcted is a fantasy version of the Holy Roman Empire. As the Middle Ages progressed, the emperor held less and less power and the various duchies and electorates became de facto independent states, which pledge nominal loyalty to the emperor. For example, in the Thirty Years war, Catholic princes allied with various foreign powers to fight alongside the emperor, while Protestant princes allied with other foreign powers to fight against the emperor. In Lord Marksman, the vanadis respect their king to various degrees; Sofya gives him credit for maintaining peace, while Ellen thinks he's a weak and paranoid man. The king maintains an uneasy power balance with the vanadis; he doesn't mind the vanadis fighting each other for trivial reasons, as it means he could keep them in check.

From the LN:

Quote:
“Would you not fear the seven would turn their blade against you? They wield a strength greater than one thousand soldiers. No matter what, it would be impossible for you to win.”

“I would think it best to have an excellent subordinate, even if they were stronger than me, for a long time.”

Hearing Tigre's ridiculous answer, Ellen looked up happily.

“Honestly, even I would say you were a bit too carefree. I said this before, but the King is not like that. He is a timid man who fears us, even when we have small military services. He gets angry and attempts to confiscate any extra territory we receive.”


As someone who has interest in both European history and fantasy I greatly enjoy this LN and anime, even though I wish it would have been given the budget for a 24 episodes series. Oh well, fingers crossed for good enough BD sales for a season 2, because honestly the story and setting deserves it.
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dtm42



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 10:31 pm Reply with quote
So this series no longer appears on the list of Daily Streaming Reviews, which means Hope has dropped it.

Wish we could have gotten an announcement.
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Zac
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 10:35 pm Reply with quote
dtm42 wrote:
So this series no longer appears on the list of Daily Streaming Reviews, which means Hope has dropped it.

Wish we could have gotten an announcement.


What? No she hasn't. She just hasn't finished the writeup for yesterday's episode yet.

How about not making assumptions based on nothing and ask someone who works here before making proclamations?
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getchman
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 10:39 pm Reply with quote
well, it is two eps behind and has disappeared from the drop down menu when you hover over New Anime, just like Trinity Seven did when Theron dropped it. Sure, asking might have helped, but it's not an unreasonable assumption
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Zac
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 10:46 pm Reply with quote
Yeah, as it turns out there was a weird error in the system last week and the review just didn't show up in the CMS - apologies for that. We would absolutely tell you if a show were being dropped. This was just a backend malfunction.

Since it's 2 episodes now, Hope will have a single review for 9-10 up tonight (or tomorrow morning). Apologies for the delay.
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dtm42



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 11:11 pm Reply with quote
Zac wrote:
Yeah, as it turns out there was a weird error in the system last week and the review just didn't show up in the CMS - apologies for that. We would absolutely tell you if a show were being dropped. This was just a backend malfunction.


Is Mushishi in the same boat? Because we haven't gotten episode seventeen yet despite it being out for two weeks now.

Zac wrote:
How about not making assumptions based on nothing and ask someone who works here before making proclamations?


Oh please, spare me the faux outrage. No episode turning up last week and the title as a whole quietly vanishing from the list of streaming reviews most certainly is not "nothing". It may have been an assumption on my part to think that Hope had dropped the show but it was a logical one. With all the evidence pointing towards that conclusion you can't blame me for thinking it.
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Zac
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 11:19 pm Reply with quote
dtm42 wrote:
Zac wrote:
Yeah, as it turns out there was a weird error in the system last week and the review just didn't show up in the CMS - apologies for that. We would absolutely tell you if a show were being dropped. This was just a backend malfunction.


Is Mushishi in the same boat? Because we haven't gotten episode seventeen yet despite it being out for two weeks now.


Yeah, looks like the same thing happened to both of her reviews from last Sunday. Same thing for that one - episodes 17-18 will be up tonight/tomorrow AM.

Quote:

Oh please, spare me the faux outrage. No episode turning up last week and the title as a whole quietly vanishing from the list of streaming reviews most certainly is not "nothing". It may have been an assumption on my part to think that Hope had dropped the show but it was a logical one. With all the evidence pointing towards that conclusion you can't blame me for thinking it.


I don't think it's too much to ask or really even implying "outrage" by saying "hey could you maybe ask about what's up instead of proclaiming things to be canceled". Just ask someone who works here instead of deciding for us what our editorial plans are and then announcing them in the forums. Really not an unreasonable request.
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kevkn



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 10:21 pm Reply with quote
I don't know if it's only me, but the pacing was kinda idk (rushed?).
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SilverTalon01



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 2:12 pm Reply with quote
kinghumanity wrote:
Elizaveta is a complicated character. She has her reasons to pick a fight with Ellen. The pirate thing is of course mainly an excuse, as Ellen said.


Glad you explained that. Also, glad you mentioned how many LNs they were cramming in. I liked the chars and the setting, but nothing seemed to actually get developed much at all which made me wonder if it was a source issue or an adaption issue. Definitely going to consider reading the LNs now.
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kinghumanity



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 10:19 pm Reply with quote
SilverTalon01 wrote:
kinghumanity wrote:
Elizaveta is a complicated character. She has her reasons to pick a fight with Ellen. The pirate thing is of course mainly an excuse, as Ellen said.


Glad you explained that. Also, glad you mentioned how many LNs they were cramming in. I liked the chars and the setting, but nothing seemed to actually get developed much at all which made me wonder if it was a source issue or an adaption issue. Definitely going to consider reading the LNs now.


Definitely an adaptation issue. Even with just 13 episodes, it's clear that budget is stretched thin.

There's the manga too, which doesn't cut nearly as much from the LN, plus the artwork is pretty good too, a lot prettier than the LN illustrations.
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ikramit



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 10:24 pm Reply with quote
SilverTalon01 wrote:


Glad you explained that. Also, glad you mentioned how many LNs they were cramming in. I liked the chars and the setting, but nothing seemed to actually get developed much at all which made me wonder if it was a source issue or an adaption issue. Definitely going to consider reading the LNs now.


The madan's anime is more a badly told summary that shares the same general plot line then an adaptation with more than half of the content from the light novel being skipped over and the battle tactics being sometimes retold incorrectly.Also events that happen in the anime such as the king allowing the vanadis to fight one another even thought you would think is would be of detriment to him are not given an explanation not because there isn't one but because the anime is preoccupied with getting through as much content as possible to bother with the explanation

Also battles in the light novel are a good mix of high octane and intense violence and good tactic with a constant changing of view point from general to general on both sides of the battle, their feeling on what’s going on, what they’re doing and what they plan to do are all expressed in one way or another and the stakes are clearly outlined so there is pressure on the result which keeps you engaged throughout.

In the anime you're lucky if you get a single fight scene and know why they're fighting in the first place also battles tend to skip to the end leaving out the beginning and middle and then you get a narrator who gives you a very rough outline of what happened this makes said battles appear far more one sided then they actually are also counter tactics are skipped making antagonist look incompetent. It should also be noted that full scale battles have been skipped over in the anime which based on how their being adapted may be a good thing.


Pretty much all side characters that play large roles in the source material are completely ignored in this adaptation characters such as the kings of both countries , Bertrand , Rurick , Mashas, Hughes , Gerard and Gleast pretty much get no development or are not even present in the anime.

This extends to main characters as well as Limlisha plays a large role in this arc acting as tigers mentor, teaching him about politics, economics and battle tactics and being his primary adviser this does not come across in the anime. Even characters that do get screen time get very little development and much less interaction in the anime this includes the antagonists that have a good portion of events being told from their point of view in the light novels.

If you plan on reading I recommend the light novel as the manga does add quite alot of fan service and quite a few major plot points are skipped.
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Yttrbio
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 10:31 am Reply with quote
Episode 11

It perhaps can't be helped that, in this era of mighty, mystical weapons, some of the lesser known ancient artifacts go by the wayside, such as the Magical Sports Bra of infinite Compression, passed down for generations in the royal family.

Speaking of eye-rolling, I missed the explanation of WHY princess and bow guy were in the bath together.
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