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INTEREST: Toshio Okada Rips Apart Gundam Reconguista


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Tenebrae



Joined: 26 Apr 2008
Posts: 485
PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:37 pm Reply with quote
Well, while I like how the art reminds me of older anime shows, I find myself agreeing with this Okada guy. The foremost feeling I'm left with after watching Reconguista is "confused," more or less. I don't think I want to spend any more time on it analyzing what exactly is off, I'll just file it under another of Tomino's weird projects and move on.
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darkhunger
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Joined: 12 May 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:37 pm Reply with quote
SilverTalon01 wrote:
Nyren wrote:
G-Reco is old school. From the characters, to the mobile suits, the cinematography, and even the designs. It's all classic Tomino.

Yes, I said it. I like SEED. I know, to a lot of you that invalidates my opinion immediately, but to bad.


Except the character designs look absolutely nothing like classic gundam. They look like E7 would if it was made in the 80s.

And that only invalidates your opinion with the crowd that thinks they are cool if they hate on things because they are popular.


Kenichi Yoshida has mentioned that Yoshikazu Yasuhiko's art was a big inspiration for his own though. So even if Yoshidas art doesn't come from the 80s, the style traces back to that of one of the creators of Gundam.


Last edited by darkhunger on Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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MexicanAnime



Joined: 12 Dec 2013
Posts: 23
Location: Houston, Texas
PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:37 pm Reply with quote
ryanvamp wrote:
I am enjoying Reconguista, but I knew it would be criticized and barely watched. What's more, when ANN made a poll of "what series do you want to see reviewed?" G-Reco wasn't even an option xD.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe they were only including options that could be viewed legally at the time.

As for Reconguista, I'm fairly enjoying it right now and I would have loved to hear him expand some of these thoughts, since I've seen others outside of this call the latest Tomino installment as confusing.

I do agree that the visual direction is reminiscent of some of the older series, which manages to work well in contrast with the modern looking mech designs. This with the overall happy and cheery tone of the show gives of a sort of nostalgic charm to it that I can't quite place my finger on.

The plot points so far seem pretty standard so far (with the execution being done well) though and I'm fine with the pacing so far given that it doesn't drag like some of the older series do.
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danilo07



Joined: 25 Dec 2011
Posts: 1580
PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:42 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Except the character designs look absolutely nothing like classic gundam. They look like E7 would if it was made in the 80s.

On surface they don't designs but designs posses certain kind of roughness, which was taken a lot from older anime. Designs look like sketch drawings and lack modern polish.
Quote:
Not everything is a metaphor or allegory. That's what made me sick of trying to analyze The Scarlet Letter, when every stupid description was supposed to mean something just for the sake of meaning something when it adds nothing to the story.

Leaving aside the fact that Reconguista has absolutely nothing metaphorical in it, your position strikes as quite anti-intellectual. I guess watching material with clear formula makes you look for these patterns in every other work. Not everything needs to have story you know? Your work can consist of purely filmed abstractions and be absolutely amazing.
Quote:
I don't know what he's complaining about. Other than Unicorn, Reconguista in G is the best thing to come out of the Gundam franchise in over a decade. CE era, 00, AGE, Build Fighters, all disappointing, middling, or terrible in their own rights (00 was "okay"). Reconguista in G is a great combination of Tomino's old school Zeta style and his more optimistic Turn A-and-later era style.

It is combination of everything worst about Tomino in one work. Full of expositional dialogue with a lot non sequuntur, choppy editing and disorienting camera angles. It has a lot of weird and funny Tomino humor, but that is not enough to compensate for the overall messiness.


Last edited by danilo07 on Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Zhou-BR



Joined: 28 Feb 2008
Posts: 1419
PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:44 pm Reply with quote
I've only watched the first three episodes so far, and I'll probably force myself to watch the whole thing because Tomino's works tend to get better as they go along, but so far I'm finding Reconguista in G a terribly awkward, uninvolving mess. Maybe he should have collaborated with a good writing staff like he did in his previous Gundam TV series instead of writing every episode himself.
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Wrangler



Joined: 11 Nov 2007
Posts: 1346
PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:45 pm Reply with quote
I'm not going get feed into this meat grinder.

I enjoy the Gundam franchise, I don't like all the series that have comes out. Gundam R (which is easier for me type out everytime) maybe for a new generation of viewers, but It has its flaws. What series doesn't?

It sounds like Okada had built in dislike for Tomino in the first place. So I'm not sure if his review was being neutral or fair.

Gundam Reconguista has some issues with its writing for sure, Tomino needs little more polish if he indeed wrote it himself and didn't have any help.

I think though, some people don't like change or being dropped into the middle of a new setting without some explaination. I didn't mind that at all, I just though the character portrayed in the show were not realistic or extremely uninformed. Switching loyalties on a whim? Being taken prisoner like its big adventure? That's odd.


Last edited by Wrangler on Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
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penguintruth



Joined: 08 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:50 pm Reply with quote
danilo07 wrote:

It is combination of everything worst about Tomino in one work. Full of expositional dialogue with a lot non sequuntur, choppy editing and disorienting camera angles. It has a lot of weird and funny Tomino humor, but that is not enough to compensate for the overall messiness.


It's a combination of everything great about Tomino in one work. It has a well-built world, is thoughtful and intricate, and has a compelling narrative. It's some of the best material Gundam has given us in many a year, and its Tomino-style awkwardness is negligible, even charming.

What has the "Otaking" done for anime since Gunbuster and Otaku no Video? Nothing. He can't touch Tomino. Very few people in the industry can.
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VORTIA
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Joined: 26 Jul 2005
Posts: 941
PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:16 pm Reply with quote
By his own admission, Okada doesn't get a lot of what is popular in anime today. Him complaining that Tomino's anime makes no sense or trying to imply he's lost the touch is a pot trying to make a kettle out of a still talented director. Reconguista in G isn't Tomino's best work, but it's not bad simply because Okada can't be bothered to pay attention to the intricacies of the dialog.
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Kaioshin_Sama



Joined: 05 Feb 2005
Posts: 1215
PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:26 pm Reply with quote
penguintruth wrote:

It's a combination of everything great about Tomino in one work. It has a well-built world, is thoughtful and intricate, and has a compelling narrative. It's some of the best material Gundam has given us in many a year, and its Tomino-style awkwardness is negligible, even charming.

What has the "Otaking" done for anime since Gunbuster and Otaku no Video? Nothing. He can't touch Tomino. Very few people in the industry can.


He's clearly butthurt about Tomino and he has a lot of criticism for Anno too whose career also took off and got exposure in the 80's and 90's much like Tomino's while he himself never amounted to anything. I hope Tomino keeps it classy, just doesn't respond to this guy and instead keeps focused on his work. That said one thing I do hope is that Tomino eventually relinquishes some of the responsibility for G-Reco over to some other stuff because writing, directing and story boarding a full 2 cour series just seems like a tremendous workload let along for a man of 72 years of age. That's right 72 years and he's doing all this, meanwhile what is this Okada fellow accomplishing outside of having a hammy youtube channel show that somehow got enough attention for ANN to think it was worth posting a news article about.

Anyway it's just a real shame, this guy comes back to try to do one last work for the franchise he helped create for it's 35th anniversary and tell one last story and all anybody can do is just shit all over him for his hard working efforts and not even really give it much of a chance. The fact that he even bothered says it all because if I were him I certainly wouldn't want to come back to this shit after all these years where the industry and fan sentiments have clearly moved on to something else entirely...something a lot more mean spirited and petty.

It's just yet another example to refer to as to why this whole anime thing really isn't a whole lot of fun anymore when considered as a part of a whole or something that should be shared with others and made even more fun that way. The ever petty fanbase and increasingly of late industry insiders are always finding some way to suck any possible joy out of watching, discussing and enjoying it as a group as quickly as possible with it's general attitude and hair trigger absolutist judgments. I don't know how this industry and fanbase can really survive going on like this, it just seems destined to tear itself apart from all angles and collapse in on itself before the decade is out due to having no creative passionate soul or spark left which kind of got ripped out of it around the time internet discussion and social media really started to take off. It's all but absolutely deplorable in it's current state and such a turn off even as a lot of the shows kind of remain good and I swear there are people that are trying to keep the fun factor going in the industry.


Last edited by Kaioshin_Sama on Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:44 pm; edited 5 times in total
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SilverTalon01



Joined: 02 Apr 2012
Posts: 2401
PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:34 pm Reply with quote
darkhunger wrote:
Kenichi Yoshida has mentioned that Yoshikazu Yasuhiko's art was a big inspiration for his own though. So even if Yoshidas art doesn't come from the 80s, the style traces back to that of one of the creators of Gundam.


Ok, and I could say that you can trade the style back far, far further than that and eventually its pretty much all related so really AGE was drawn in a throwback style. Yeah, no. Doesn't work that way. Being inspired by something doesn't make it a throwback to that. It is actually returning to that original look that makes it a throwback to old school.

The only thing that is relevant here is that it doesn't actually look like the old school gundam style. It looks like an entirely new art style being added to gundam in a way that makes it look old. And I'm fine with a new and different style of designs, but if its a new style of design, they might as well make it look new.

danilo07 wrote:
On surface they don't designs don't but designs posses certain kind of roughness, which has taken a lot from older anime. Desings look like sketch drawings and lack modern polish.


In otherwords, completely different and new designs (at least for gundam) that were just intentionally made to look old. Being made to look old doesn't make it old school.

VORTIA wrote:
By his own admission, Okada doesn't get a lot of what is popular in anime today. Him complaining that Tomino's anime makes no sense or trying to imply he's lost the touch is a pot trying to make a kettle out of a still talented director.


To be fair, if you have seen Tomino's comments about modern anime, he doesn't have a clue either.
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Kai Shmuper



Joined: 30 Aug 2014
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Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:49 pm Reply with quote
And this is what happens when characters talk like normal people and not like edgy superheroes who expose the main plot during the 1st episode using some kind of stupid/forced speech.

Not expecting a Tominoesque series from Tomino... Nice Otaking you have there.
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Sergorn



Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 81
PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 3:35 pm Reply with quote
I honestly don't see how could anyone don't understand what's going on in Reconguista unless well... one don't listen to the fraking dialogues ?

Granted we don't get a big narrative explicative infodump detailing us the context - by are we getting to a point were people have so little attention span they can't properly follow a series anymore ? Everything we need to understand the content is right there in the épisodes and the dialogues. I dunno stop tweeting or doing whatever while watching a series people.

So basically I have no problem understanding what's going on in Reconguista, and I don't think I have a superior intelligence than most. I've watched all the Gundam series (and I mean all) and I loved the first four épisodes, this could possibly become the best Gundam since Turn-A Gundam (which was an awesome series and definitly one of the best Gundam series).

-Sergorn
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Cptn_Taylor



Joined: 08 Nov 2013
Posts: 925
PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 3:37 pm Reply with quote
SilverTalon01 wrote:
Nyren wrote:
G-Reco is old school. From the characters, to the mobile suits, the cinematography, and even the designs. It's all classic Tomino.

Yes, I said it. I like SEED. I know, to a lot of you that invalidates my opinion immediately, but to bad.


Except the character designs look absolutely nothing like classic gundam. They look like E7 would if it was made in the 80s.

And that only invalidates your opinion with the crowd that thinks they are cool if they hate on things because they are popular.


Character design looks like E7 because the character designer is the same in both shows. Ever wondered why some many animes have the same looking characters ? It's nothing new. On the other hand E7 doesn't have the esthetic appeal of the 80s and neither does Gundam Reconguista. Shiny colors and easy going characters doesn't an 80s anime make.

As for people complaining about the plot of Gundam Reconguista, I wonder if you read mystery novels expecting everything to be revealed in the first chapter ? Rolling Eyes

Gundam no Reconguista is like Babylon 5. The details are revealed little by little. Some things you can infer from the context others from the dialog. Yeah watching Gundam no Reconguista expects you to maintain attention. For anime fans brought up on the miserable story telling concept of infodumping it must be really hard.
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jirg1901



Joined: 03 Jun 2014
Posts: 150
PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 3:54 pm Reply with quote
Kaioshin_Sama wrote:
penguintruth wrote:

It's a combination of everything great about Tomino in one work. It has a well-built world, is thoughtful and intricate, and has a compelling narrative. It's some of the best material Gundam has given us in many a year, and its Tomino-style awkwardness is negligible, even charming.

What has the "Otaking" done for anime since Gunbuster and Otaku no Video? Nothing. He can't touch Tomino. Very few people in the industry can.


He's clearly butthurt about Tomino and he has a lot of criticism for Anno too whose career also took off and got exposure in the 80's and 90's much like Tomino's while he himself never amounted to anything. I hope Tomino keeps it classy, just doesn't respond to this guy and instead keeps focused on his work. That said one thing I do hope is that Tomino eventually relinquishes some of the responsibility for G-Reco over to some other stuff because writing, directing and story boarding a full 2 cour series just seems like a tremendous workload let along for a man of 72 years of age. That's right 72 years and he's doing all this, meanwhile what is this Okada fellow accomplishing outside of having a hammy youtube channel show that somehow got enough attention for ANN to think it was worth posting a news article about.

Anyway it's just a real shame, this guy comes back to try to do one last work for the franchise he helped create for it's 35th anniversary and tell one last story and all anybody can do is just shit all over him for his hard working efforts and not even really give it much of a chance. The fact that he even bothered says it all because if I were him I certainly wouldn't want to come back to this shit after all these years where the industry and fan sentiments have clearly moved on to something else entirely...something a lot more mean spirited and petty.

It's just yet another example to refer to as to why this whole anime thing really isn't a whole lot of fun anymore when considered as a part of a whole or something that should be shared with others and made even more fun that way. The ever petty fanbase and increasingly of late industry insiders are always finding some way to suck any possible joy out of watching, discussing and enjoying it as a group as quickly as possible with it's general attitude and hair trigger absolutist judgments. I don't know how this industry and fanbase can really survive going on like this, it just seems destined to tear itself apart from all angles and collapse in on itself before the decade is out due to having no creative passionate soul or spark left which kind of got ripped out of it around the time internet discussion and social media really started to take off. It's all but absolutely deplorable in it's current state and such a turn off even as a lot of the shows kind of remain good and I swear there are people that are trying to keep the fun factor going in the industry.

You realize you're talking about Yoshiyuki Tomino. You know, that guy who hadn't made a proper anime in nearly a decade but was still determined to complain about everything and anything if even slightly prodded? But no, it's everyone else who does nothing and has a negative attitude, not Tomino-dono blessed he be in Sunrise.

Maybe if you want people to not say mean things about your beloved Tomino you could not be completely ignorant and insulting about Okada? His accomplishments since leaving Gainax hold up just fine and he's certainly as entitled to say such things about G-Reko as Tomino is to say video games are the devil or no one knows how to voice act whatever.
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Sam Murai



Joined: 01 Dec 2006
Posts: 1051
PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 3:55 pm Reply with quote
Nyren wrote:
I've been a Gundam fan for a long time, though perhaps not nearly as long as others. I started with Gundam Wing and G Gundam. However, I have watched older stuff and generally liked F91. But here's my beef with G-Reco. It's basically fanservice for those Gundam hipsters. And I don't mean hipster in a derogatory sense. I'm merely using it to refer to fans who have been around since the beginning. […]

G-Reco is old school. From the characters, to the mobile suits, the cinematography, and even the designs. It's all classic Tomino. It evokes and 80's sense, even if it is more flashy. The characters and mobile suits seem less solidly drawn, something typical of a low-budget production. The background are pretty and solid, but the mobile suits and characters have constantly fluctuating pencil lines(Or what passes for pencil lines when drawn on a computer). They don't look solid. Let me simplify that: It looks old.

G-Reco is not the kind of Gundam series that will draw in newer fans or appeal to fans who jumped on board in the last decade and a half. G-Reco is fanservice for the older fans. It is an extension of the Universal Century timeline and constantly references that. I frequent a Gundam RP Forum, and most of the people there are Gundam hipsters. They vastly prefer the original UC Tomino works over everything else. And from the beginning, they've been far more excited for G-Reco than any previous series. Why? Because it's Tomino and its what they first fell in love with. For people like me who grey up with the alternate timelines, even the Tomino ones like Wing, G, and Turn A, some us aren't excited for G-Reco because it seems old despite being new. Build Fighter Try, to me, is far more exciting and I'm loving it to death. My favorite Gundam series to date is Gundam 00. SEED and Wing are close seconds. Yes, I said it. I like SEED. I know, to a lot of you that invalidates my opinion immediately, but to bad.

tl;dr I don't think G-Reco is really for newer fans. It's a tribute to old school Gundam and its fans. So to each their own, but honestly, there's two camps. One is happy, the other is not as happy, mostly indifferent.


Probably best to keep in mind that the show is part of Gundam's 35th anniversary celebration, so most of what you said is more befitting than not. Also, the only AU series that Tomino did was Turn A. Wing and G were done by others. That said, Wing is my (co-)most favorite anime series and is what got me interested in Gundam, but I really enjoyed Tomino's entries and most of the rest of the franchise (heck, I've watched it and CCA 14--and going on 15-- times, already!). You didn't need to be a "Gundam hipster" to bw looking forward to G-Reco, or know much about Gundam to get into it. I would also surmise most older/UC fans were excited about it because it was Tomino's first series in nearly a decade and his first Gundam one since 1999's Turn A. Can't be just a little excited for the return of Gundam's creator for its 35th birthday?

As for the E7 mentions (which, yes, is going to happen when Kenichi Yoshida is doing your show, as that is his natural style), I honestly think that the overall look and feel of the design works lean more heavily towards Akira Yasuda's work on Turn A. They have similar styles, but in G-Reco, they feel almost indistinguishable (will that mean something in the long run, who knows…). And say what you will about the aesthetic choices, it really looks stunning and distinctive, and has a great charm to it that you don't normally get with more modern/mainstream anime.

One other thing I like about G-Reco, as others have mentioned, is that it doesn't follow the usual Gundam path. There have been good series in the last 15 years, but too often have they travelled down the same path as others have. I'm glad to see recent entries break away from formula, but still not losing sight of what makes the franchise great or what it is, as seen with Unicorn, GBF, and (so far) G-Reco. Gundam has been long overdue for some fresh air…


Last edited by Sam Murai on Wed Oct 22, 2014 4:01 pm; edited 2 times in total
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