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poonk



Joined: 05 Jun 2008
Posts: 1490
Location: In the Library with Philip
PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 11:40 pm Reply with quote
Ugoki wrote:
If WMT anime who are aimed at kids can portray poverty correctly, why can't more mature shows do?
I'm sure it has everything to do with the need to feature the fashionable clothes/cars/gadgets made by the shows' sponsors. I always sort of laugh at the super-obvious scenes in K-dramas where we get a lingering closeup shot of the leads' awesome phones, usually accompanied by the character using one of its novel features.
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mdo7



Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 5897
Location: Cypress, Texas, USA
PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 12:10 am Reply with quote
poonk wrote:
I always sort of laugh at the super-obvious scenes in K-dramas where we get a lingering closeup shot of the leads' awesome phones, usually accompanied by the character using one of its novel features.


I'm sure this happened in J-dramas too. Actually a lot of Asian dramas are like that. There'll be product placements and clever ads in dramas no matter what Asian countries it's from.
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poonk



Joined: 05 Jun 2008
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Location: In the Library with Philip
PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 12:19 am Reply with quote
mdo7 wrote:
I'm sure this happened in J-dramas too.
How many J-dramas have you seen, mdo7? For someone so fond of comparing the two countries' shows I get the impression it's very few.
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mdo7



Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 5897
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 12:23 am Reply with quote
poonk wrote:
mdo7 wrote:
I'm sure this happened in J-dramas too.
How many J-dramas have you seen, mdo7?


Beside Mischevious Kiss, I'm also watching Hakuba no Ōjisama on CR. I got other J-dramas on my CR queue, same for DF.
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SquadmemberRitsu



Joined: 26 Jan 2012
Posts: 1372
PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 12:25 am Reply with quote
Videogamep wrote:
SquadmemberRitsu wrote:
Okay, I get that all those bad dubs from the 90s can be excused for their shittyness and I get that not all of them were as bad as Garzey's Wing.

So where's Sentai's excuse for putting out terrible dubs on a regular basis? They occasionally get lucky like with Watamote, HOTD and Kill me Baby but for every dub like that there's about 10 dubs that are sub par like Tamako Market and Girls und Panzer or completely unbearably godawful tripe like Little Busters and Prisma Illya with casting choices that make you swear they were on drugs and voice acting that should be used as a legal method of torture. They've been around for quite some time now but notice all my examples were fairly recent dubs.

Every other active dubbing company is, on average, decent. They've all made bad dubs in the past but it's a clear minority compared to the good stuff they've made. But when it comes to Sentai I seem to find a lot more bad than good. And trust me, I've tried very hard to find the good.


I actually haven't heard any Sentai dubs (outside of short clips) aside from Angel Beats, which I remember being decent but nothing special. Are those dubs you mentioned really that bad?
Angel Beats is one of their above average dubs. A bit sub par and probably the only time I've seen casting choices happen half way through a 13 episode series but nothing especially bad.

But for the most part yeah they are that bad and then some. Casting Greg Ayres with his raspy high voice and tiny range as a musclebound guy with a deep voice who constantly prides himself on being an alpha male is one of the most boneheaded casting choices I've ever heard and hearing it in action was even worse than I thought it would be.
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Barbobot



Joined: 06 Feb 2007
Posts: 454
PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 1:52 am Reply with quote
Taskforce wrote:

Funimation isn't any better. I'll never understand why Funimation gets a free pass from many people when they have just as many recent fairly bad dubs as Sentai. It doesn't help that Funimation and Sentai use the same voice pool either.

And Sentai should be given a pat on the back for at least one thing. Between Funimation and Sentai, Sentai is much more willing to try to get the original cast for some shows they license at least. Funimation is almost never willing to even do that. (Just compare Shana S2-S3 with Shana S1, S1 wins hands down if you ask me.) Had Funimation gotten Persona 4, I have no doubt it would have been a lot worse. Or even Unlimited Blade Works. Funi definitely would have ruined that one. Sure, Sentai didn't attempt to get the old cast with Illya, but how many magical girl shows make it in the US market. You can't blame them for keeping cost down on that one. The only reason it probably got a dub was the connection to the Fate universe in the first place.


Can you name any recent Funimation dubs that have been as bad as some of Sentia's lesser dubs? I can't. And Funimation definitely pulls in actors from previous dubs in the series when they are available. Hellsing XI and X as well as the Bayonetta movie are good examples of this. They even flew the person in charge of Bayonetta out to London to get Hellena Taylor to do the voice.
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Ugoki



Joined: 24 Oct 2014
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 1:56 am Reply with quote
mdo7 wrote:
poonk wrote:
I always sort of laugh at the super-obvious scenes in K-dramas where we get a lingering closeup shot of the leads' awesome phones, usually accompanied by the character using one of its novel features.


I'm sure this happened in J-dramas too. Actually a lot of Asian dramas are like that. There'll be product placements and clever ads in dramas no matter what Asian countries it's from.


Indonesian here. Can confirm it's true here too.

Which is why I never watched my local dramas since forever, since even as a child, I'm already hooked to anime first.
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EricJ2



Joined: 01 Feb 2014
Posts: 4016
PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 2:02 am Reply with quote
mdo7 wrote:
jsevakis wrote:

Regardless who posited the question, it was an interesting one to answer, and it actually has come up before.

And thank you for your response Justin.


(Uh-oh, J, now he thinks you're his "friend" who will defend his posting topics through thick and thin, and the various isolated "meanies" on the forum who won't "let him".
We DID warn you. Shocked )


poonk wrote:
So why be so passionately invested in how they're not achieving their potential (or whatever) outside of Japan when you hardly even watch them? If it's just to make an opening to talk about K-media, then I'd suggest you jump in to some of the many dedicated forums that are out there. Talking about K-pop/dramas is why those places exist.

But coming in here and bagging on Japan just to have a chance to talk about how awesome Korean stuff is is not helping your cause (if it is a "cause"-- and it sure seems like it is).


I'm guessing he DID go to those avenues of discussion, and isn't allowed to post on them anymore...
This one would do well to follow suit.


Last edited by EricJ2 on Sat Nov 01, 2014 2:07 am; edited 3 times in total
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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 14082
Location: currently stalking my waifu
PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 2:02 am Reply with quote
Ugoki wrote:
Which is why I never watched my local dramas since forever, since even as a child, I'm already hooked to anime first.


How quickly people forget that Pizza Hut supports the rebellion.
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Greed1914
It's Over 9000!It's Over 9000!


Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 3396
PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 2:12 am Reply with quote
Barbobot wrote:
Taskforce wrote:

Funimation isn't any better. I'll never understand why Funimation gets a free pass from many people when they have just as many recent fairly bad dubs as Sentai. It doesn't help that Funimation and Sentai use the same voice pool either.

And Sentai should be given a pat on the back for at least one thing. Between Funimation and Sentai, Sentai is much more willing to try to get the original cast for some shows they license at least. Funimation is almost never willing to even do that. (Just compare Shana S2-S3 with Shana S1, S1 wins hands down if you ask me.) Had Funimation gotten Persona 4, I have no doubt it would have been a lot worse. Or even Unlimited Blade Works. Funi definitely would have ruined that one. Sure, Sentai didn't attempt to get the old cast with Illya, but how many magical girl shows make it in the US market. You can't blame them for keeping cost down on that one. The only reason it probably got a dub was the connection to the Fate universe in the first place.


Can you name any recent Funimation dubs that have been as bad as some of Sentia's lesser dubs? I can't. And Funimation definitely pulls in actors from previous dubs in the series when they are available. Hellsing XI and X as well as the Bayonetta movie are good examples of this. They even flew the person in charge of Bayonetta out to London to get Hellena Taylor to do the voice.


They also allowed Jonathan Klein to go out to New York to record with any actors for characters that debuted in season two of Ikki Tousen while getting back pretty much all of the LA cast from the first season. Also, with The Woman Called Fujiko Mine, they brought in Michelle Ruff to voice Fujiko as she had previously when Funimation's actor wasn't available. They might not always get people back due to scheduling or cost, but it is inaccurate to say that they don't at least try to get people to reprise roles.
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omiya



Joined: 21 Sep 2011
Posts: 1505
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 2:31 am Reply with quote
The only J-Drama that I have been hearing about regularly (partly due to its 6 days a week 15 minute appearances) is Hanako to Anne, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanako_to_Anne, which has had Yuki Kajiura as soundtrack composer.

It seems to have had the advantage of a good story based on true life, and a lot of love by the cast and crew.

Whether it will see a release outside Japan with subtitles remains to be seen.

At present it seems that the live action movies based on anime are the most likely Japanese live action movies to be released outside of Japan with a few exceptions like "Departures", which still had Joe Hisaishi's music to recommend it to anime audiences.
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leafy sea dragon



Joined: 27 Oct 2009
Posts: 7163
Location: Another Kingdom
PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 3:03 am Reply with quote
Quote:
Many dub studios were run by washed up musicians-turned-recording engineers trying to fake an enthusiasm for anime so they could put food on the table.


That makes me wonder if there are any businesses where that sort of thing is going on now. Even small video game companies seem to get easy access to people like Kyle Hebert though, and a lot of voice actors now have their home studios so they can provide voices on their own time. But I can't help but feel that, as long as there are washed-up musicians, there will be this sort of situation somewhere.

Quote:
Since Final Cut Pro 7 was discontinued years ago and almost no professionals take the new, drastically re-built Final Cut Pro X seriously, many are switching to Adobe Premiere Pro.


I remember taking film editing classes when Final Cut Pro X came out. I had no experience with editing, only knowing what I read, so I only knew Final Cut Pro X was not to be trusted based on word of mouth from my classmates. (The university continued to use FInal Cut Pro 7, and I think it still does.) I checked out Final Cut Pro X and noticed it was severely stripped down.

I do know, however, that Apple has been jumping through hoops to create Final Cut Pro X updates to try to get it to be as functional as Final Cut Pro 7. Does anyone know what became of this? Is Final Cut Pro X still really bad? Or did it just leave a sour taste in editors' mouths and they haven't forgiven Apple for it?

I do find it kind of weird, though, that we haven't had any further versions of Final Cut Pro after X.

Quote:
In my opinion, the Japanese entertainment industry has sabotaged itself with its methodology, and until that changes they won't be able to grow much of an overseas audience.


Now that makes me wonder how the Japanese record labels are doing in terms of sales and growth. Based on this description, it sounds like they're all slumping and reacting by retreating upmarket. That is, they are settling for a smaller but more devoted audience. Such a business strategy rarely works well in the long term, and when it does, that's because there are downmarket companies to bring in new customers, some of whom will go upmarket later (such as with automobiles and cameras).

And if what I'm guessing is true, then these record labels' days are limited, as there are no downmarket alternatives.

GATSU wrote:
Except in Hollywood, we're racist and/or condescending to Asian entertainers, so you're lucky if you get to keep your shirt on.


Racist stereotypes with Asian people have been long and enduring compared to other ethnic groups in the United States, I noticed. Perhaps it's because Asian culture discourages voicing one's complaints.

It reminds me of how gambling machines are still designed with incredibly racist mindsets. Chinese tourists visit Las Vegas in huge numbers, for instance, and they design them with themes of eastern dragons, kung fu, and Mongols.

Hoppy800 wrote:
I just want a South Korean company to enter the console market, give me something that will revitalize my love for console gaming.


Before that can happen, South Koreans have to become interested in console gaming in the first place.

Taskforce wrote:
I actually liked Myung and wish Anne Sherman had done more anime in the past than she did. The one thing I can say about her is at least she didn't do the voices with that unnatural squeaky voice that is 50 octaves higher than her natural voice that most VA's use in todays dubbing. With some of these VA's recently, you expect the neighborhood dogs to start howling at the unnatural highs they generate. Yes, some of them can actually act, but they could do it just as easily (or probably easier) a few octaves lower and more natural sounding. And when they can't act, that high pitch just makes things even worse.


Strange, I feel the opposite. When I've watched both the English and Japanese version of something, I always felt the English voices are scaled down lower for some female characters whereas it's the Japanese audio that's full of squeaky and/or nasal helium voices.

HeeroTX wrote:
Regarding mdo7's K-Crusade, I actually found the response in the column interesting as I hadn't really given much thought to how Korea was handling the internet (makes sense when you also consider the e-sports scene, that they'd be so much more internet friendly than even the US probably).


South Korea is at the top of the world in terms of Internet connectivity and speed. By contrast, United States, as of 2013, was at 14th (and it fell from 12th in 2012). There are eastern European nations that, despite their struggling infrastructure, have faster overall Internet than the United States.

reanimator wrote:
My thought is that they should learn their lesson through failure. I want Japanese mainstream media to fail because they will not grow without experiencing serious difficulties.


If Japanese culture is one that tolerates failure, and I'm sure it isn't. That aside, I'm sure new companies would spring up from the ashes like a chaparral sapling.

Fedora-san wrote:
I just have to seriously question how big Korean shows are in the west compared to anime. If they're so popular why aren't they airing on big TV channels like anime is? How come tons of American media ape Japanese shows rather than Korean ones? Like all the anime influenced cartoons and movies, or live action stuff like Power Rangers and it's many American rip offs which are based on tokusatsu?


The popularity of Korean programming seems to be very regional, with highest concentrations on the west and east coasts. They also seem to be viewed mainly by immigrants from eastern Asia, middle-aged women in particular. Hence, I would never call them mainstream, but they are intensely well-liked and well-watched among that particular group.

This is a pretty niche audience though...but then again, you could say that anime is also a thing that's intensely well-liked and well-watched among a particular group of people too.

Certainly though, K-dramas have managed to get onto broadcast stations in Los Angeles. Doesn't compare to Toonami though.
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String Chess



Joined: 01 Nov 2014
Posts: 5
PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 4:13 am Reply with quote
GATSU wrote:
Except in Hollywood, we're racist and/or condescending to Asian entertainers, so you're lucky if you get to keep your shirt on.
She wrote that song. Unless you have documentation stating the evil Americans wouldn't let her release music here until she wrote a song about how Japanese and not American she is, I think you might be jumping the gun.
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Taskforce



Joined: 05 Nov 2004
Posts: 64
PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 4:15 am Reply with quote
Barbobot wrote:
Can you name any recent Funimation dubs that have been as bad as some of Sentia's lesser dubs? I can't. And Funimation definitely pulls in actors from previous dubs in the series when they are available. Hellsing XI and X as well as the Bayonetta movie are good examples of this. They even flew the person in charge of Bayonetta out to London to get Hellena Taylor to do the voice.


Fairy Tail, Shana S2-S3, The Devil is a Part Timer and Hetalia just to name a few. Yeah I think they've had their fare share of bad ones lately. And while it isn't terrible, Black Lagoon OVA did not come close to the original effort either. Fairy Tail alone can make anything Sentai is doing sound great in comparison. Though, I don't totally agree that Sentai has been as bad as you've lead on either. I actually did not find the dub to Little Busters for example to be any worse than any of the harem dubs from Funimation as of late. (Which just means both have been mediocre) But hey, this is just my opinion. I will admit I was wrong about Funi's policy of getting old actors to some degree however.

Anyway, changing casts isn't anything new, Bandai alone did it three times on Saber Marionette J for example (Sadly, all 3 attempts were terrible too). And even Japanese actors have been replaced during series or between seasons. It is just nice when they put forth an effort not to do so. Or at least try to get similar voices to the original. I just feel Funi doesn't put forth enough effort on that front. Again, that is just my opinion though.

Either way, you would be hard pressed to find anything these days remotely as bad as a few stinkers from the past. The dub for Leda - The Fantastic Adventure of Yohko was so bad that Rightstuf was giving the VHS away at one point to anyone who ordered just to get rid of them.
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SquadmemberRitsu



Joined: 26 Jan 2012
Posts: 1372
PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 5:27 am Reply with quote
Taskforce wrote:
Funimation isn't any better.
No, Funimation is way, way better.

When it comes to their very, very few good dubs like Watamote and Kill me Baby Sentai still can't even come close to the quality of dubs like Fullmetal Alchemist, Gunslinger Girl, Steins;Gate and Space Dandy. Not to mention their good dubs are far more numerous.

When it comes to Funimation's weaker dubs like Railgun it's still fairly competent even if it's direction is misguided. 'Sissy' is a terrible translation decision, barely any of the characters sound like they should but at the very lest it's still competent on a basic level. And that is so much more than I can say for shitheaps like Penguindrum, Amnesia, Guin Saga, Nyan Koi, Mayo Chiki, AKB0048 and 90% of the stuff Sentai put out.

Quote:
Sentai is much more willing to try to get the original cast for some shows they license at least.
Black Lagoon, Hellsing Ultimate and Ikkitousen disagree. Plus the dub for Shana Season 1 wasn't very good. I usually enjoy the stuff Ocean put out but that's the one exception. Also Cherami Leigh was much more fitted to the role. The only thing I don't like was replacing Brad Swaile with Greg Ayres. Like, imagine Death Note with Greg Ayres playing Light? That sounds like something Sentai would do.

Plus did you ever hear the dub for K-ON Season 2? It was awful. Sentai's release schedule meant they had to rush it and to cut down on time they had Sentai contribute with the translation. It really shows. The voice acting is fine but the dialogue is just awful and overall the dub is noticeably weaker than Season 1 despite having the same cast and ADR Director. Fortunately they learnt their lesson for the movie not to trust Sentai with the script but it's too late to save Season 2. I have a massive amount of nostalgia for the S1 dub since it was my first real experience with anime but I can not recommend anyone watch the show dubbed any more thanks to Sentai.

Quote:
Had Funimation gotten Persona 4
Then they probably would have gotten the game's cast just like they did recently with Bayonetta Bloody Fate and earlier with Mass Effect Paragon Lost and unlike Sentai did recently with Rozen Maiden and Prisma Illya (Despite previous iterations in the franchise getting them which is just bullshit).

I can talk about specific problems with Sentai dubs from the awkward dialogue to the lazy translation to the horribly misguided casting choices but all you seem to be doing is criticising them something really insignificant (Not to mention irrelevant to the actual quality of the dubs they put out) that Sentai is equally guilty of.

The main reason why I despise Prisma Illya's dub as much as I do is because it's bad. The casting choices are awful both from the perspective of the past English dubs and the original Japanese, the translation for certain terms isn't consistent with any of the past English translations, I even had to rewind a few times because the voice acting was so bad I could barely understand what the characters were saying. That is the only time I've ever had to do that with an English dub and I watch a lot of them.

I've experienced Fate mostly in Japanese so the basic idea of a new cast didn't bother me. What bothered me was that the people doing it were Sentai. I kept an open mind but immediately prepared for disappointment once I heard Illya open her mouth. Why did she sound like a middle aged woman doing a Rei Ayanami impersonation? Who thought that it was a good idea for her to play the character like that? These are questions I will likely never get answers to.

You on the other hand seem to be opposed to the basic idea of someone taking a show and replacing the cast members because of your bias for said show.

Taskforce wrote:
Fairy Tail, Shana S2-S3, The Devil is a Part Timer and Hetalia just to name a few.
Haven't seen Hetalia (Although the fact that the majority seem to strongly disagree I'm just going to disregard your opinion anyway) but I've watched both Fairy Tail and Devil is a Part Timer in English and Japanese and the one thing I really liked about the dubs was how close they felt to the original Japanese tonally. I was even able to switch between sub and dub for a few episodes of Fairy Tail and I barely noticed the difference.

Actually, the Fairy Tail dub probably handled the comedy aspect a bit better. Plus Newton Pittman's performance is a lot more distinct and just plain better than Yuuichi Nakamura's.

Quote:
I actually did not find the dub to Little Busters for example to be any worse than any of the harem dubs from Funimation as of late.
The dub for Highschool DxD is practically the only really good part of the show. Jokes that are actually funny, a much less irritating MC and some really good adaptive scriptwriting.

I'm not saying all their dubs are great (Psycho Pass was kind of meh from what I've seen) but as I said even on a bad day they can beat out Sentai easy.


Last edited by SquadmemberRitsu on Sat Nov 01, 2014 5:43 am; edited 1 time in total
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