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Wyvern



Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Posts: 1067
PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 6:51 pm Reply with quote
I find it interesting that Jason says he's never read Harry Potter. Now I wonder about his reaction to spoiler[ The final chapter of Naruto, which is basically a remake of the final chapter of HP. Everyone had babies with dumb names and the world is perfect now and it's all kind of boring!]
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MaxSouth



Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 1301
PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 7:13 pm Reply with quote
Wyvern: The ending in this regard does not need to have anything to do with Harry Potter as it is was beaten to death long before this example of English literature has appeared.
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Bonham



Joined: 20 Nov 2010
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Location: Queens, New York
PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 7:31 pm Reply with quote
Wyvern wrote:
I find it interesting that Jason says he's never read Harry Potter. Now I wonder about his reaction to spoiler[ The final chapter of Naruto, which is basically a remake of the final chapter of HP. Everyone had babies with dumb names and the world is perfect now and it's all kind of boring!]

With shades of George Lucas and Stephanie Meyer. An academic analysis of the problems in the series—not just the ending, but for the past few hundred chapters—would make for an entertaining read.

MaxSouth wrote:
Wyvern: The ending in this regard does not need to have anything to do with Harry Potter as it is was beaten to death long before this example of English literature has appeared.

I might be misinterpreting you, but do you think that Wyvern literally means that Naruto is a remake of Harry Potter's epilogue? Or that the ending of the latter literally inspired the ending of the former?
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jtron



Joined: 03 May 2012
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Location: Chicago
PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 8:18 pm Reply with quote
We're all rooting for you, Jason! Don't lose to yourself! Also, next do Jojo's in 48 hours.
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animalia555



Joined: 12 Jun 2004
Posts: 467
PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 8:28 pm Reply with quote
jtron wrote:
We're all rooting for you, Jason! Don't lose to yourself! Also, next do Jojo's in 48 hours.
How about 8 days, one for each part, instead?
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old_yoshi
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Joined: 09 May 2009
Posts: 42
PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 8:41 pm Reply with quote
No, Jason don't do it! It isn't worth it. You'll go blind and insane!!

JK ! JK!
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AiddonValentine



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 1758
PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 10:38 pm Reply with quote
Bonham wrote:

With shades of George Lucas and Stephanie Meyer. An academic analysis of the problems in the series—not just the ending, but for the past few hundred chapters—would make for an entertaining read.


i.e. like the Mr Plinkett videos of the Star Wars prequels. Just doing the blanket statement of "it sucks" is admittedly simplistic. Ya gotta break it down, analyze all the little bits from characterization, pacing, plotting, etc to really get into why stuff didn't work. It's actually interesting at how bad works of fiction might be analyzes even more than good works.

Quote:
I might be misinterpreting you, but do you think that Wyvern literally means that Naruto is a remake of Harry Potter's epilogue? Or that the ending of the latter literally inspired the ending of the former?


I think they mean they're just very similar in their execution and content.
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Wyvern



Joined: 01 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 10:59 pm Reply with quote
MaxSouth wrote:
Wyvern: The ending in this regard does not need to have anything to do with Harry Potter as it is was beaten to death long before this example of English literature has appeared.


I'm mostly kidding, as this sort of ending is a common trope, and it's quite possible that Kishimoto had this ending in mind long before Rowling's series ended (when Naruto began, HP had just released its third book.)

That said, I think Potter's ending did solidify this trope in the minds of a ton of people (pretty much everyone who was under 30 in 2007, and many who were older.) So when another long-running franchise about a young man saving a magical world and going to a weird school comes to an end in a similar way, comparisons are inevitable.

It's kind of like how every story where the hero has an evil father gets compared to Star Wars, even though that trope was centuries old when George Lucas did it.
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Kadmos1



Joined: 08 May 2014
Posts: 12660
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 10:59 pm Reply with quote
Lusbox wrote:
How you can read an entire volume in 15 minutes is beyond me.


Skim reading lets me read between 2-3 volumes read in that time and I do this just to get the volume(s) over with.
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Juno016



Joined: 09 Jan 2012
Posts: 1950
PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 11:12 pm Reply with quote
Good luck! Even skimming, it's going to take a while to get through the series, but I appreciate and am reading all of your comments. The trivia about the beginning is really neat. And like others have said, be wary of the war arc. It takes up far too many chapters, isn't very exciting, and is supposed to have taken place in the span of two days. I don't know how.
Not even Naruto Storm could do it. Storm 2 went from the beginning of Shippudden to the end of the pain arc and Storm 3 picks up there, at the beginning of the war arc, and reaches more toward the end of the war arc before catching up to the manga at the time and having to create a huge filler hiatus ending, likely to be continued in the final game. Well, considering the directing of the games, I'm really excited to see how the spoiler[final Naruto vs. Sasuke fight] (which everyone knew was coming) plays out there. I'm expecting a ton of spoiler[flashbacks to previous fights between the two again]. It's quite the Storm tradition now.
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RestLessone



Joined: 02 Aug 2009
Posts: 1424
Location: New York
PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 11:34 pm Reply with quote
I'm finding the commentary and translation/production notes really interesting!

Naruto was my gateway drug, but I stopped following it shortly after getting into manga. I even forgot about some of those villains! And Shino. From time to time, I would go back and look at updates. I remember being baffled by some of his decisions.

I did like the beginning, though. Naruto's world has a really unique feel to it. Sort of forgot that all the female characters had some odd fault that just didn't mesh well with me. That fear of blood, the focus on romantic exploits as a catalyst for character relationships and goals...

As for the ending, I have just one comment for now: spoiler[what's with Ino and Sai? Did they ever show any interest in one another? I know things can happen in a timeskip, but that just feels like pinning two characters together so no one ends up single.]
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Juno016



Joined: 09 Jan 2012
Posts: 1950
PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 2:01 am Reply with quote
RestLessone wrote:
As for the ending, I have just one comment for now: spoiler[what's with Ino and Sai? Did they ever show any interest in one another? I know things can happen in a timeskip, but that just feels like pinning two characters together so no one ends up single.]


One or two very minor scenes/panels where they noticed each other, I believe. Not much, but at least there was planned precedence. If Ino didn't have anyone, I could see fans kinda feeling bad that she didn't just not get Sasuke--she didn't get anyone. Which would just be depressing, considering her character was pretty focused around love during the series outside of the general Ino-Shika-Cho moments/arcs.
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RGaspar



Joined: 04 Oct 2011
Posts: 225
Location: Aaaaargentina
PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 7:49 am Reply with quote
Excellent detailed review! I hope there is a final conclusion besides all those tome by tome impressions.

Boy, reading all that really takes me back...Naruto used to be awesome before part 2 happened. I'd take that a step further, the very first time I felt a battle lasted more than it should was during the whole 'saving Sasuke' arc. The actual fight was ok, but the build up with the 5 sound ninjas was the beginning of the end (if only I knew...)

Btw, Ino'sspoiler[ ultimate love is nothing random compared to whom Chouji ended up married (I could barely remember her after reading a wikia for a while).]
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Bolaum



Joined: 13 Aug 2013
Posts: 124
PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 8:28 am Reply with quote
MaxSouth wrote:

4) much of the story is super-dark and incrediblycruel to characters mentally, not just (even more than) physically. It goes to unthinkable extremes in this more than any other big-scale manga. Also, unlike other big-scale mangas, this one does not afraid to have some major characters to spoiler[die and never return; like Jiraya. One Piece is not an example since Luffy's brother was obviously introduced shortly before being killed, only for the sake of that, and not for standalone role in the story other than that.];


Ew Ace first appeared in Drum Island, a few moments after they entered the Grand Line. According to the Wikia he first appeared in Chapter 154.
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vanfanel



Joined: 26 Dec 2008
Posts: 1162
PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 11:54 am Reply with quote
There's no telling how much longer One Piece could go on...but when it does end some day, I think we should stage an intervention if he tries to do something like this again.

Thoughts:

* Rock Lee vs. Gaara: Before he goes into the ring, Guy makes everyone facefault by getting all serious and saying, "There's something suspicious about that gourd!" He sounded like he was stating something incredibly obvious, and yet in retrospect, spoiler[there was something suspicious about it, and that gourd was the only reason Rock lost.] That's one thing I love about Guy: what he says might only sound stupid because his perceptions are on such a higher level than everyone else's.

* I agree that the warm-up fights to Naruto vs. Sasuke at the end of part 1 were overlong. I also felt like Orochimaru's flunkies had been nerfed to make them beatable by Shikamaru, Chouji, Kiba, and Neji.

* Yes! Awesome sub-characters needed more to do. Rock Lee was my favorite, and he got almost completely forgotten about during Part 2. Shikamaru came out best in that regard, practically taking over as main character for one arc.

* I'm not a fan of flashbacks and restating the situation, but in a 15-year weekly serial, you can't expect every reader to be up-to-date on what's happening.

* Tobi vs. Minato: spoiler[He did have Zetsu fused with him by that point, and I believe the leveling up of his sharingan happened when Kakashi killed Rin. In the anime, you see both of Obito's sharingan change at that instant (even though one of them is in Kakashi's head). And he still got owned anyway, which is also a realistic outcome.]
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