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INTEREST: Hayao Miyazaki Voices Support for Demilitarizing Okinawa


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Touma



Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 2651
Location: Colorado, USA
PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 12:53 pm Reply with quote
Tenbyakugon wrote:
I'm going to voice support for keeping politics out of anime.

How about just keeping politics out of anime forums? Unless we are discussing the politics in an actual anime?

That is not going to happen, is it?
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MarshalBanana



Joined: 31 Aug 2014
Posts: 5296
PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 1:35 pm Reply with quote
So what is the reason the base is there? I assume it put there after the war but why is there now. I doubt they would have a base there for no reason.
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Fronzel



Joined: 11 Sep 2003
Posts: 1906
PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 1:47 pm Reply with quote
MarshalBanana wrote:
So what is the reason the base is there? I assume it put there after the war but why is there now. I doubt they would have a base there for no reason.

To have a base in East Asia/Western Pacific, I'd assume.
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teferi



Joined: 16 May 2006
Posts: 400
PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 2:40 pm Reply with quote
Twage wrote:
Our bases on Okinawa are impractical, expensive, unfair, and a blight on Okinawan society. They cost both Japan and the U.S. money we don't have. They're fiscally and morally indefensible. Study their history, and you'll see.

teferi wrote:
If you put 47,000 people on an island some of them are going to commit a crime at some point. I don't even. Kinda ridiculous given that the local crime rate is so much higher.


The problem is not the crimes being committed. Though those are certainly a massive problem, the Japanese legal system can handle them. The problem is the US military consistently subverting or outright violating Japanese law to cover up crimes and accidents involving American servicemen.


That's not really a problem unique to incidents involving US military. Violent crime going unreported or covered up isn't anything new to Japan.
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leesahlynn



Joined: 17 Mar 2014
Posts: 81
PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 3:53 pm Reply with quote
MarshalBanana wrote:
So what is the reason the base is there?


The war is what got us there, the reason we stayed is because we signed a security treaty in which Japan asked for our ongoing protection and assistance. We are there because we were asked to be.

Also recall that Japan tries to keep the absolute minimum security forces necessary. They have the least soldier-civilian ratio of any NATO country. They wouldn't even have an anti-ballistic missile program if it weren't for us. That's why they've bartered with us so WE become their military if something serious ever occurs. In return, we have an excellent view of China and North Korea.

We also, as part of that treaty, are obligated to assist in natural disaster aid for Japan, which is extremely important given their location and how often they get hit. We have way more resources than they could ever hope for.

Also, just because it was brought up: "Per Okinawa Prefectural Police data, U.S. service members commit far less crimes than local Okinawans. These findings held American soldiers responsible for 53 crimes per 10,000 U.S. male servicemen, while Okinawan males held a crime rate of 366 crimes per 10,000."

Canada has the same problem with the British soldiers it hosts, Germany has an issue with the overwhelming number of Frenchies, no matter what country you point out, the foreign military bases there contribute some very small percentage of the crime.
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Shippoyasha



Joined: 28 Aug 2007
Posts: 459
PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 5:23 pm Reply with quote
Nobody should be listening to the old angry fogey that is Hayao Miyazaki. I get it, he did some amazing works in the past. But I feel he rants like a lunatic all the time. Any sane person should take anything he says with a grain of salt. No less posting about the guy like he has any relevance when he shoots off the hip like that.
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nargun



Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 924
PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 5:31 pm Reply with quote
MarshalBanana wrote:
So what is the reason the base is there? I assume it put there after the war but why is there now. I doubt they would have a base there for no reason.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Civil_Administration_of_the_Ryukyu_Islands

After the war, japan was occupied... but the US government refused to let the okinawans join the rest-of-japan civil government when that was organised and instead kept okinawa under military occupation with the right to override any decisions that local elected authorities might make. Colony, essentially.

During this time they packed the island full of military bases -- a process in which the locals had no-zero-not-any say -- and then when the whole thing became just plain stupid the US refused to surrender its authority over the island unless the japanese essentially promised to keep letting them build bases wherever they wanted, the locals be buggered.

Anyway. Watch Blood the Last Vampire, the original short film -- set in okinawa at this time -- where we see the bombing raids the US used to run out of okinawa to vietnam. Which I think explains pretty clearly what the bases are for.
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gloverrandal



Joined: 20 May 2014
Posts: 406
Location: Oita
PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 5:34 pm Reply with quote
leesahlynn wrote:
Also, just because it was brought up: "Per Okinawa Prefectural Police data, U.S. service members commit far less crimes than local Okinawans. These findings held American soldiers responsible for 53 crimes per 10,000 U.S. male servicemen, while Okinawan males held a crime rate of 366 crimes per 10,000."


Are there statistics that say which kinds of crimes are being perpetrated by each group? White-collar VS violent? Is there a discrepancy there?

Personally, any percentage is too high considering the circumstance. Servicemen should be seen as the best our country has to offer and a representation of our country, so they should be held to a higher standard than your average citizen. It makes our country look bad when I hear about these kinds of stories. Not just in Japan but in other countries as well. People in these positions have a greater responsibility and image to maintain than an average citizen does.
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Hoppy800



Joined: 09 Aug 2013
Posts: 3331
PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 6:17 pm Reply with quote
gloverrandal wrote:
leesahlynn wrote:
Also, just because it was brought up: "Per Okinawa Prefectural Police data, U.S. service members commit far less crimes than local Okinawans. These findings held American soldiers responsible for 53 crimes per 10,000 U.S. male servicemen, while Okinawan males held a crime rate of 366 crimes per 10,000."


Are there statistics that say which kinds of crimes are being perpetrated by each group? White-collar VS violent? Is there a discrepancy there?

Personally, any percentage is too high considering the circumstance. Servicemen should be seen as the best our country has to offer and a representation of our country, so they should be held to a higher standard than your average citizen. It makes our country look bad when I hear about these kinds of stories. Not just in Japan but in other countries as well. People in these positions have a greater responsibility and image to maintain than an average citizen does.


The problem is the military has mostly young people in it who haven't tasted battle and god forbid they are in a non-combat role or stationed in a non-combat area, they are going to be bored to hell and have a lot more downtime. That downtime is often spent drinking, horsing around and/or looking for women. This downtime makes these troops kooky in the head.
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Fronzel



Joined: 11 Sep 2003
Posts: 1906
PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 7:30 pm Reply with quote
leesahlynn wrote:
Also recall that Japan tries to keep the absolute minimum security forces necessary. They have the least soldier-civilian ratio of any NATO country.

Japan isn't a member of NATO. The "North Atlantic" character of the alliance didn't last very long (Turkey joined in 1952), but Japan being part of it is going too far.

More importantly, Article 5 of the North Atlantic Treaty demands collective defense which contradicts Article 9 of the Japanese constitution renouncing war as a means of dispute resolution.
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enurtsol



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 14746
PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 4:08 am Reply with quote
In 2006, there was a deal US and Japan in agreement to move US forces off Okinawa:

United States-Japan Roadmap for Realignment Implementation
May 1, 2006 by
Secretary of State Rice
Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld
Minister of Foreign Affairs Aso
Minister of State for Defense Nukaga

2010: Clinton Asks Japan to Respect 2006 Okinawa Base Agreement

Japan Times: U.S. base problem drags on



The Tokyo government usually treats Okinawa as a faraway stepchild place to dump their issues (out of sight, out of mind). Meanwhile, Okinawans consider themselves Okinawans first, Japanese second (e.g. if ya ask their tourist group who they are, they'd usually say they're Okinawans rather than they're Japanese).
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Sacto0562



Joined: 12 Jun 2010
Posts: 288
PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 1:20 pm Reply with quote
Even most Japanese are NOT interested in a fully-demilitarized Okinawa, especially with the continued threat from North Korea and China's increasingly belligerent moves in the East China Sea. Besides, the US military bases there provide a lot of tax revenue to Japan itself.
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Touma



Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 2651
Location: Colorado, USA
PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 1:43 pm Reply with quote
Sacto0562 wrote:
Besides, the US military bases there provide a lot of tax revenue to Japan itself.

And it is not just the tax revenue.
I know nothing about Okinawa, but I have lived on and near several military bases in the US and Europe. There are always a lot of civilian businesses that depend almost entirely on the military personnel for their existence.

Removing the bases would probably be bad for the local economy. At least in the short term.
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MaxSouth



Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 1363
PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 6:45 pm Reply with quote
Fronzel wrote:
12skippy21 wrote:
The global economy is to interlinked for old school cold war geopolitics, unless money can be made from the situation.

The leadership of Russia may disagree, although it's yet to be seen how that really works out.


The leadership of Russia agrees; oligarchs do not want another cold war.

Western firms have $1 trillion interests in Russia, so there is no real wish for another cold war either; hence still no real sanctions (as the economical damage would make global economy tumble as in falling domino effect). To be fair, objectively speaking, sanctions are not warranted at all since Russia tries to protect its own people from illegal regime in Ukraine that was set after a coup with help of Western powers.
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Fronzel



Joined: 11 Sep 2003
Posts: 1906
PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 3:16 pm Reply with quote
I made another post here but it's vanished somehow and I can't be bothered to remember how I worded things to attempt to re-create it.
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