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Maria the Virgin Witch (TV).


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WhiteHairGirls



Joined: 27 Apr 2011
Posts: 4713
Location: New York City
PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:37 am Reply with quote
4nBlue wrote:
Alan45 wrote:
One thing that didn't ring true was that they had some of the foot soldiers on both sides in full suits of plate armor.

That stuff is every bit as heavy as it looks and severely limits the individual's ability to walk, must less fight on the ground. It was also very expensive for the time. A soldier who could afford a full suit could probably also afford the necessary horse. If he couldn't afford both he would likely buy the horse and something lesser like chain mail. The soldiers on horses were a lot safer than those on the ground.

A guy in a full suit of armor on the ground was likely there because he was unhorsed. If not seriously injured in the fall, he was like a bug on its back. He needed help to get back up.


Properly fitted armor worn by a trained person isn't that cumbersome.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvCvOC2VwDc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xm11yAXeegg


Ya bro, do you even Skyrim?
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Alan45
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Joined: 25 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 1:35 pm Reply with quote
@4nBlue
I'm not suggesting that a person in full armor couldn't fight on the ground. However that is not how they did it and it isn't a good idea except out of necessity.

If you will look at the first video closely you will note both sets of armor are clearly designed for use on horseback. There is no armor on the low back, butt or the backs of the legs. This is the area covered by the horse and where you need flexibility to ride properly.

In the anime, the three mercenaries didn't need to go for the visor, two could have engaged him in front while the third put a knife at his back just below the armor or cut the tendons in the back of his legs.

Two people in full armor fighting each other on the ground would have likely been part of a joust or a trial by combat. An artificial situation, not war.
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mangamuscle



Joined: 23 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 1:49 pm Reply with quote
@Alan45

I agree but lets not forget that most are not professionally trained (nor seasoned) soldiers. Without any prior knowledge and after seeing first hand how deadly arrows can be, I would remove the plate armor from any dead soldier to wear on the next battle, only to find out how heavy and cumbersome it is, but at least I would survive until the melee started. Also, since most of the soldiers have polearms, standing your ground in heavy armor while the enemy cavalry closes is not such a bad idea imo.
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Alan45
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 1:58 pm Reply with quote
@mangamuscle
From history, if the English were employing the long bow, even the plate armor was not a defense even at some distance. The fact that English bowmen could kill the French knights in armor was the source of several French losses. The problem with the long bow was that it took a life time of training. In England they actually passed laws to attempt to keep young men from entertainment that would interfere with their training.
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Stark700



Joined: 30 Jan 2012
Posts: 11498
Location: Earth
PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 11:53 am Reply with quote
Episode 2:
I sure hope the BD will remove some of the weird censors.

Overall, a pretty good episode. Animation quality remains top tier while we see more of Maria's potential. The fantasy elements are also pretty well drawn out whether it's some of the mystical creatures or just the setting itself.
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ookamigirl



Joined: 15 Jul 2012
Posts: 2274
Location: Croatia
PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 12:08 pm Reply with quote
#2

spoiler[I just don't know what to do with this one.
Drop it or keep watching?
It's weird, borderline too weird for my taste.
Artemis overdid it, but Maria finally saw something new.
Michael kept interfering with Maria's work.
Keeping balance is a good excuse to make.
The world is an unfair place.
Joseph pulled an interesting stunt.
Wonder if it'll cost him..
Will give it a few more episodes.]
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DuskyPredator
It...it's not like I post for you or anything!It...it's not like I post for you or anything!


Joined: 10 Mar 2009
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Location: Brisbane, Australia
PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 12:23 pm Reply with quote
Stark700 wrote:
I sure hope the BD will remove some of the weird censors.

Well some of those censors spoiler[were more of the fact that there was nothing there, it was having a cloud there to act as an in univserse censor fog]. Well she can fix that now spoiler[that she has seen a serpent].

Episode 2

Well what do you know, she spoiler[gets an incubi too]. Also there appear to be spoiler[Valkyrie in universe too, female beings that take the souls of soldiers who have passed in war].

So spoiler[angels really don't care of actually helping people beyond stopping supernatural elements]. I would say there was some spoiler[sense to some of the reasoning], but how can you hate on Maria who spoiler[pretty much does exactly what the church thinks the angels do]?

A real friend spoiler[shoots and threatens an archangel for you]. From what I have read of the premise of the series, the spoiler[angels will send that loli who takes the form of a dove to watch over her as a judge].
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Yttrbio
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 12:48 pm Reply with quote
Some of the argument between Michael and Maria was clipped out, but unfortunately, I think some of the explanation for why they don't help went with it, and I wonder if the audience is sufficiently familiar with Christian theology to bring it in themselves. Since that is the main conflict here, I wonder if the show is trying to simplify things to avoid moral ambiguity, which would be a shame.
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justsomeaccount



Joined: 24 Oct 2014
Posts: 471
PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 4:09 pm Reply with quote
^ Maybe it will be played later so it will be better ordered, I don't know, but I hope so. I didn't read the manga but if this anime takes that direction I'll check it out to compare.

So far though I liked this episode and it showed better the unfair world and desperate situation for Maria and it's going to be more serious than I imagined, I want to see this author making things with more defined plot. It seems she as a witch is going to be the kind of selfless person who at this rate is going to be crushed because of all the responsability, which kind of reminds me to FSN, but here I think it fits better and it has more potential.

I'm also alright will all the sexual content, the autor is clearly male but I find him respectful with his fanservice (in Moyashimon spoiler[there is the previous video I put where basically says 'who cares about two persons of the same gender kissing each other' (and homosexuality in Maria's episode wasn't treated maliciously), and the transexual character is treated after her change as other female character in the same vein as the others without being played contemptuously, that's very rare]). The only scene that maybe will worry people is the bisexual guy, but with his historial I trust it's not anything malicious.
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Harleyquin



Joined: 29 May 2014
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 10:39 am Reply with quote
Watched the first two episodes, it's good fun seeing the paradox that is Maria try and force her way above competing factions both earthly and other-worldly.

The trope on "how the world works and the order which keeps it running" isn't a new one, but this series focuses more on one individual with lots of power trying to overturn an established world order which is out to get her for her attempts to change things.

As for the historical setting, if witches are so powerful that they can stop full-scale battles by summoning gargantuan monsters then what we know as the Hundred Years War really shouldn't have lasted that long especially if the French and English witches decided to play an active role (both in Maria's manner and with the more typical employment of succubi).
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Spastic Minnow
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:46 am Reply with quote
^^^^
"But you're wizards! You can do magic! Surely you can sort out - well - anything!"

"The trouble is, the other side can do magic too."


So, just imagine that they would cancel each other out if both sides had witches working for them.
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Harleyquin



Joined: 29 May 2014
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 3:48 am Reply with quote
Spastic Minnow wrote:
^^^^


So, just imagine that they would cancel each other out if both sides had witches working for them.


Since the Church abhors cooperation with succubi and the brass high in the heavens don't really interfere much, witches like the unnamed French witches and the one from Winchester apparently have free reign to do as they please yet the setting is of the French close to victory with only Calais in English hands.
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HaruhiToy



Joined: 15 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 10:11 am Reply with quote
Harleyquin wrote:
The trope on "how the world works and the order which keeps it running" isn't a new one, but this series focuses more on one individual with lots of power trying to overturn an established world order which is out to get her for her attempts to change things.

What Michael is saying to Maria is: since you are powerful you cannot use your power to create the outcome you want. Warlords with their superior weapons and armies can, but you can't.

I find that a bit hypocritical. Michael then goes on that there are bloody conflicts going on all over the place and Maria isn't doing anything about that because it isn't immediate to her. So if she is that limited (not omniscient) then how can she overcome an established world order?

Not that I ever expected Christian angels to be consistent, but it would be better if Michael pointed out to her that the best she was doing was interfering with human evolution. They can't grow out of it if a witch is always around to stop them from fighting.

Still, this is quite an interesting show.
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Harleyquin



Joined: 29 May 2014
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:13 pm Reply with quote
Maybe I misread the dialogue, but I'm certain Maria had lines to the effect of questioning the stupidity of human mentality in its obsession with conflict. My conclusion on her attempt to overthrow an established world order stems from her own desire to see conflict ended and her environs left in peace.

Perhaps it's a question of Maria's ambition and effort. She doesn't seem too motivated for an outright campaign to end warfare throughout the country, just getting up every once in a while when her neighbouring village is under threat and individuals she has a connection to are in danger from becoming carrion feed.
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Yttrbio
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 4:18 pm Reply with quote
The next episode will probably clarify things, but Michael isn't criticizing her work as futile. He's criticizing her work as selfish destruction of the nature of the world. The rules of the world (the rules of physics, essentially) were put in place for the benefit of humanity, and for Maria to reject those, she is essentially elevating herself to a god who rejects free will, as opposed to regular God, who respects it. And the way she goes about it suggests she's really only doing it for her own sense of self-satisfaction (because she doesn't help everyone).

In essence, Michael is condemning her as an arrogant god-wannabe, who can't really take on the full responsibilities of what being a god entails, and hence can't understand the true nature of the God's work she so casually destroys.

I should add that whether you buy that is meaningful is up in the air. I'm an atheist, but I'm fascinated by this aspect of Christian theology (why would God create a world at all?), which is probably a big part of why I find this stuff gripping.
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