×
  • remind me tomorrow
  • remind me next week
  • never remind me
Subscribe to the ANN Newsletter • Wake up every Sunday to a curated list of ANN's most interesting posts of the week. read more

Forum - View topic
Maria the Virgin Witch (TV).


Goto page Previous    Next

Anime News Network Forum Index -> General -> Series Discussion
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Harleyquin



Joined: 29 May 2014
Posts: 2815
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:22 pm Reply with quote
Yttrbio wrote:
You're right! Why were we even holding a discussion about topics relevant to a show's themes? What were we thinking?

If you don't want to participate in this discussion, then don't. But I fail to see what's "not good" about it.


Apart from potentially having egg in your face when everything you throw in that's from preconceived notions doesn't quite work.

Go right ahead and speculate, if you get it right before the show reveals its hand then you get brownie points. Or is the thread an excuse to show off one's acquired knowledge on religious theology?

My opinion (not that it's worth anything on this forum): Marie's overt use of really powerful magic to stop conflicts between humans really annoys the heavens watching above, as to why it's so annoying is uncertain since the angel in question only throws in vague suggestions about how Marie's helping of the oppressed either turns the tables the other way with no difference in end product or because said witch can't be everywhere at once (nor does she seem motivated to do so) to progress more than just being the local hermit who doesn't like being disturbed and will do anything possible to maintain an ideal status quo.

The above might well be completely wrong, but at least it's not preaching an argument which is necessarily correct because something existing religious theology makes it so.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Yttrbio
Subscriber



Joined: 09 Jun 2011
Posts: 3649
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:56 pm Reply with quote
Egg on your face incoming! Brownie points not available!!! I'm going to lose the internet!!!!!

I'm left unclear as to why any of that should be in any way significant to me. I'm not trying to win the "what's coming up" guessing game you think everybody is playing for some reason. I also don't see why you think I'm any more confident about what the show is going to do than you.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Harleyquin



Joined: 29 May 2014
Posts: 2815
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 6:51 am Reply with quote
Yttrbio wrote:
Again, I don't know where the show is going to go in terms of these issues. But I'm not pulling from the show, I'm pulling from Christian theology. Forests of paper and seas of ink have been spent arguing doctrine and theology among various branches of Christianity for over a millennium, and I think you're really missing out if you don't want to use that to inform some of the show's conflicts.


Sorry for "missing out" when holding back on a tentative conclusion on what the God in this series is trying to accomplish due to lack of in-series information, rather than quoting excessively from existing religious theology and then assuming that everything written out is logically and most assuredly going to explain what is going on.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Agent355



Joined: 12 Dec 2008
Posts: 5113
Location: Crackberry in hand, thumbs at the ready...
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 11:07 am Reply with quote
I think the religious philosophy discussion is relevant for the same reason the historical accuracy discussion is relevant--the manga-ka and the anime writers obviously put a lot of thought and research into this show. There have been religious references in Maria that show that this anime put way more thought into religious ideas than most other anime. Religion wasn't relevant in the totally made up and mixed up world of say, Bahamut, but Maria has a fairly realistic depiction of the French Catholic Church clergy and its followers, has metioned Saint Margaret and the Church's role in Jean of Arc's treatment, etc. It's been on point so far, so why wouldn't theology and philosophy come into play as well?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Harleyquin



Joined: 29 May 2014
Posts: 2815
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 11:27 am Reply with quote
Perhaps it's just me, but taking off-the-cuff references to historical figures and religious saints and bringing in the entire framework of religious theology as if it's part and parcel of the show that is to come is a bit of a stretch.

It's not illogical to make the connection, perhaps jumping the gun since what the writer has in mind about the Church in this setting may not tally at all with what is available on theology, philosophy and other fields.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
HaruhiToy



Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 4118
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:45 pm Reply with quote
Agent355 wrote:
I think the religious philosophy discussion is relevant for the same reason the historical accuracy discussion is relevant--the manga-ka and the anime writers obviously put a lot of thought and research into this show.

I don't have anything to contribute but I find the discussion here quite interesting. This sort of thing is the best the ANN forums on anime can be.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kgw



Joined: 22 Jul 2004
Posts: 1048
Location: Spain, EU
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 5:54 pm Reply with quote
Well, we should take in consideration that the "Church" that burnt Jeanne d'Arc was the same one that backed the English claim to the French crown. While it's truth that the Dolphin didn't rush to her help, that left an open door for her to be canonized (now she's St. Jeanne). Hypocrisy, maybe, but they could and did claim "hey, it was that evil-bishop thing! We knew she was a saint of France!"

Also, about witches, again, another posture of the Church was saying "believing in witches is superstition: witches do not exist". Also, Michael speaks about the creatures that help Maria, as a part of the past. BTW: this is ep#02 Taranis

About free will, well, i've been taught that "free will". even means "free even to do bad things". Because love should be unconditional. If you choose behaving bad, that's your party (in the afterlife, presumably). So one of the problems might be that Maria actually is teaching "force solves anything". spoiler[What if villagers would have attacked the marauders/soldiers when they drop their weapons?] Would have Maria strike them, too?

On the other hand, I don't think this show will go that far, from a philosophical/theological point of view... but the discussion it is interesting.

The real thing that bugs me... "Imperial France"? Shocked
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jroa



Joined: 08 Aug 2012
Posts: 537
PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 2:02 pm Reply with quote
kgw wrote:
The real thing that bugs me... "Imperial France"? Shocked


Blame the English translator. I don't think that mistake is in the Japanese dialogue.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ookamigirl



Joined: 15 Jul 2012
Posts: 2274
Location: Croatia
PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 10:51 am Reply with quote
#3

spoiler[Reasoning with Michael.. a hard task.
Well damn, virginity vs magical powers..
Wonder how long she'll last.
Owl fight was LOL but they were right to push Ezekiel around for a bit.
Joseph obviously has a thing for Maria & now she knows it too.
England vs France just causes her to react every time.
The church seems to be taking more interest in Maria as well.
She's been warned twice now about messing with balance..
Being this stubborn will only bring her more trouble.]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Stark700



Joined: 30 Jan 2012
Posts: 11762
Location: Earth
PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 4:06 pm Reply with quote
Episode 3:
Well, that was interesting regarding the plot this episode. I just love how amusing the comedy is in this show as well.

Not sure what I think about the spoiler[Archangel Michael yet but Ezekiel is someone that I found somewhat annoying. Oh and this episode gave the English version of the title an interesting meaning. I'm curious to see how far the show will adapt Maria and Joseph's relationship though as there's some obvious attraction between the duo.]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website My Anime My Manga
Harleyquin



Joined: 29 May 2014
Posts: 2815
PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 4:33 pm Reply with quote
Maria's not adverse to bending the restrictions she's under if she can get away with it, but being too flashy has earned her unwanted attention from more factions.

Bernard's stance seems standard enough, offer the olive branch before unsheathing the sword. However he seems to be playing the long game as well so it remains to be seen what his next move will be.

I think I've seen the spoiler[trial with the boar] somewhere before in a historical source, from what I can remember it wasn't meant to be a positive allusion. It's clear though that Maria just wants to use her powers to remove what annoys her rather than trying to adapt to the world around her and using her powers more subtly.

The last scene with the deep voice, the way the dialogue went I'll wager a guess that the identity of the voice is spoiler[the old pagan god of nature that was around before the Church took hold and is likely responsible for granting witches the powers they can wield. ] Unfortunately for Maria it also adopts a fence-sitting stance like the heavens Michael works for.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DuskyPredator



Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 15433
Location: Brisbane, Australia
PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 5:10 am Reply with quote
Episode 3

That part of the trial of a boar sounds like an interesting topic, because how can you spoiler[condemn an animal for breaking human law when it has no understanding of human law]. I have the feeling that it might have been intentional of perhaps Maria being persecuted for spoiler[using her power for disrupting human nature, a crime she does not understand as she is purely doing what she thinks is just].

Now I watch a lot of Supernatural, so the angel thing also has my interest. My two favourite types of angels are those that have a morality that makes them seem kind of rigid that they might have something to learn from people, and those that have inhuman forms. Sadly no hint of Michael having a form so beyond human comprehension, but there is a bit of gender ambiguity which is nice. One would have to question how right that battle was where both are under church, the bullying was kind of fun, laughed when Maria spoiler[summoned a monster once she knew Michael was probably not watching].

So the church is kind of hypocritical, it doesn't want something more powerful than it, but he also seems ready to leave Maria for a while just for their own benefit. A little harsh the way she spoiler[turned down the deal, but there is probably some lack of trust well earned]. And poor spoiler[Incubus is unfinished].

It would seem that that thing at the end was spoiler[Cernunnos, the Horned God, the Celtic name of a pagan god that was demonized often as the devil in a number of works]. That sounds familiar... ah as a Pokémon fanboy the Pokémon spoiler[Xerneas] has its name based on it. I do like how he kind of looked how one might think a demon or something.

This show continues to be fun
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
Animegomaniac



Joined: 16 Feb 2012
Posts: 4070
PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 6:11 am Reply with quote
kgw wrote:

Also, about witches, again, another posture of the Church was saying "believing in witches is superstition: witches do not exist". Also, Michael speaks about the creatures that help Maria, as a part of the past. BTW: this is ep#02 Taranis


Historical fictional disadvantage: monsters and witches aren't real but the church was so all the argument made in this thread are lopsided. {the idea that this could be the point of the "archangel Michael" calling mythological monsters "historic" is hilarious; Witches, known but laying low. Angels, known but unseen. Monsters? Well, everyone knows their names. Dragon, Cyclops, serpent...}

I can't decide if the show is saying anything about religion or not; The firmest foundation of belief is not having your target of prayer answer them and, well, there's a coincidence, Michael only showed up in episode two physically after Ann inadvertently added Maria the witch to the list of saints she was praying to and then, outside of the planned script, Maria showed up to help.

It's hell of a blow to belief, you see. It's also amusing to see Michael call out Maria for being a hypocrite. "God works in mysterious ways"' Prior to the "divine intervention", Maria was merely doing the equivalent of stopping a neighborhood fight but then Saint/Archangel Michael shows up to question why her selfishness at just aiding those she knows rather then all those nearby who needs it.

It's quite telling he just stuck to those who could have been in her field of vision rather than events happening on the other side of the world. "This is what you could be doing, if you raise your eyes just a bit."

In short: Isn't he just getting Maria to do his dirty work by telling her things she can't do and how he'll bust her if she does? "We can't intervene like that but you can. But I'm taking your badge {metaphorically, that's his plan} so you can work outside the law" or something like that.

Great show.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Stark700



Joined: 30 Jan 2012
Posts: 11762
Location: Earth
PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 10:24 am Reply with quote
Episode 4:

Haha, spoiler[Viv is a funny one. I find her rivalry with Maria to be amusing already and how assertive she is. Jokes aside, I think her ideology does have some meaning to it. And right now, there's no end to wars in their world (seems like another one coming soon by the look of things)]

Good episode though, with the balance of drama and comedy. Pacing seems to have slowed down somewhat.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website My Anime My Manga
ookamigirl



Joined: 15 Jul 2012
Posts: 2274
Location: Croatia
PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 11:09 am Reply with quote
spoiler[Mercenaries] playing bad & pillaging.
Of course Maria had to intervene..
Poor Maria spoiler[stepped on Michael's & other witches toes].
Seems like spoiler[Maria is really tempted in letting her virginity go].
spoiler[Priapus & Ezekiel doing chores] LOL
Nice episode.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Anime News Network Forum Index -> General -> Series Discussion All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous    Next
Page 4 of 28

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group