Forum

bahamut623 wrote:

My point is it's a piece of crap pity category(a look at the nominess will tell you that). They're awarding mediocrity. Like I said, a good story is a good story. If Beauty and the Beast made it, it doesn't mean ALL animated movies are inferior (granted, I think there are better animated movies than Beauty and the Beast).
Unless they're judging on technical qualities, than a separate category is understandable, but if they're going on the overall quality of the film then they shouldn't be separate.

While the Best Animated Feature award may be a pity award, there are some benefits to it. Even if they don't win the award, this Oscar is still a good way for niche animated films to get a lot of promotion to generate interest in these lesser-known films that didn't get as much mainstream exposure because they aren't jumping on the talking animals that make fart jokes with pop culture humor CGI cartoons bandwagon. For example, if it wasn't for this Oscar, I probably never even would've heard of Renaissance, since I don't pay much attention to French animation and I'm sure there's probably many people who probably never would've heard of Spirited Away without this Oscar. Do you think TCM still would've aired subtitled Studio Ghibli films if Spirited Away hadn't won the Best Animated Feature Oscar? Imagine if this award existed back when Mononokehime was released in U.S. theaters. While the film didn't do so well in U.S. theaters, many critics still praised the film and of course many anime fans still loved it anyway. The movie's biggest problem was Disney's lack of promotion for the film as they were too reliant on the idea that people would generate interest in the film through word-of-mouth alone. When Spirited Away won the Oscar, several more theaters started playing the film. That might not seem like a big deal at first, but I think that just that little bit of extra exposure there really helped give the film more recognition. If Mononokehime had won a Best Animated Feature Oscar, even if it is a pity award, I think the movie still would've gotten a lot more exposure than what it did, and Studio Ghilbli films probably would've been popular in the U.S. a long time ago. Even if Paprika has a snowball's chance in hell of winning this Oscar, and even if it is just a pity award, Paprika could still benefit from the extra promotion because the truth is people are more willing to pay attention to a film that was nominated for an Oscar more so than a film that wasn't. Who knows? Maybe we'll see Kon films aired on TCM if it gets nominated.

Kouji:

Quote:

For example, if it wasn't for this Oscar, I probably never even would've heard of Renaissance, since I don't pay much attention to French animation

It's not really a French animated film as much as a European co-production.

Quote:

and I'm sure there's probably many people who probably never would've heard of Spirited Away without this Oscar.

It seemed to be doing quite nicely in theaters, before Di$ney sabotaged it, in hopes of boosting one of the Pokemon movie's sales. I don't think they believed it had a chance in winning, either.

Quote:

Do you think TCM still would've aired subtitled Studio Ghibli films if Spirited Away hadn't won the Best Animated Feature Oscar?

I don't think they would have put the Ghibli films on dvd
if Spirited Away didn't win the Oscar. Technically, they still haven't, either, if I take into account Only Yesterday. Evil or Very Mad

Quote:

Imagine if this award existed back when Mononokehime was released in U.S. theaters...The movie's biggest problem was Disney's lack of promotion for the film as they were too reliant on the idea that people would generate interest in the film through word-of-mouth alone.

Disney let their subsidiary Miramax handle Mononoke, and as we all know by now, Harvey Weinstein doesn't care about Asian people. Spirited Away and CTHD's success stories were the perfect revenge against that a-hole.

FYC ad, courtesy of Anime News Service.

Kouji wrote:

bahamut623 wrote:

My point is it's a piece of crap pity category(a look at the nominess will tell you that). They're awarding mediocrity. Like I said, a good story is a good story. If Beauty and the Beast made it, it doesn't mean ALL animated movies are inferior (granted, I think there are better animated movies than Beauty and the Beast).
Unless they're judging on technical qualities, than a separate category is understandable, but if they're going on the overall quality of the film then they shouldn't be separate.

What Kouji said.

That's a really good point, I hadn't really thought about it that way, maybe because this year the category is starting to change. In the past few years, the nominess have been mostly the mainstream kiddie movies. Now they seem to be looking beyond that more than before. Seeing it with that in mind, I can start to appreciate it more, but when all the nominees are a bunch of lame CG movies(I don't have a problem with CG movies, just bad ones, which many recent CG movies have been.) then I have problem with it.

Also, I loved Cars. Even if it wasn't Pixar's strongest, it was the best of all the CG movies to come out this year.

As for A Scanner Darkly, it seems to be in a weird position. I haven't seen it myself, but I'm not sure I would classify it as an animated movie, but then again, I'm not sure I would classify it as just a live action movie. I guess it depends on what more they do with the look besides just rotoscoping everything.

bahamut623 wrote:

Unless they're judging on technical qualities, than a separate category is understandable, but if they're going on the overall quality of the film then they shouldn't be separate.

There are Oscars for purely technical achievement, like Special Effects and Sound Editing. They don't usually televise those contest (that I remember) because really, who's going to notice really detailed sound editing besides people who work in the industry?

On one hand, animation really is a big technical achievement, and that's one reason Snow White won a special award. Spirited Away had a lot of great technical achievement things going on, but it also had a good story.

If there was an award for "Best Animated Screenplay" or something, I'm assuming you would still think it was a crappy pity award.

The only people who care about the "Best Animated Short" oscar are animation industry insiders (like people at my company).

Kouji wrote:

Imagine if this award existed back when Mononokehime was released in U.S. theaters. While the film didn't do so well in U.S. theaters, many critics still praised the film and of course many anime fans still loved it anyway. The movie's biggest problem was Disney's lack of promotion for the film as they were too reliant on the idea that people would generate interest in the film through word-of-mouth alone.

If I recall correctly, didn't Disney want Princess Mononoke to not do so well since it was far more violent and mature than they were expecting when they went through Ghibli's library?

GATSU wrote:

I don't think they would have put the Ghibli films on dvd
if Spirited Away didn't win the Oscar. Technically, they still haven't, either, if I take into account Only Yesterday. Evil or Very Mad

Come to think of it, has there been any word on putting Only Yesterday on DVD at all? I'd prefer not to have to resort to methods of having to seek out the R2 version, let alone fansubs. So can I only hope to see the work of the other significant director behind Ghibli that stands in Miyazaki's shadow?

bahamut623 wrote:

As for A Scanner Darkly, it seems to be in a weird position. I haven't seen it myself, but I'm not sure I would classify it as an animated movie, but then again, I'm not sure I would classify it as just a live action movie. I guess it depends on what more they do with the look besides just rotoscoping everything.

Rotoscoping aside, there were quite a few sequences in it that were done by animation alone. The opening sequence of the movie, certainly, and a critical plot point later on is also heavily reliant of it. A Scanner Darkly is far from being traditional animation, but it has even elements that I'd say it fits in the medium in a bizarre way (in fact the rotoscoping was a nice fit and enhanced the film considering the main theme).

GATSU wrote:

Variety
throws in its two cents on the contenders.

As is to be expected, Variety's predictions are driven by the box office totals. But at the same time, their complaint about Renaissance is "Conventional sci-fi story might as well have been live action, leaving toon industry asking, 'Why was this animated?'"...and the answer is, *why not*?...esp. since there really were a few bits in that movie that never could have been accomplished with live-action.

CorneredAngel wrote:

As is to be expected, Variety's predictions are driven by the box office totals.

So are the Academy's nominations in the category, unless a foreign animated film gets significant enough critical momentum to overcome the lack of visibility.

HellKorn wrote:

Kouji wrote:

Imagine if this award existed back when Mononokehime was released in U.S. theaters. While the film didn't do so well in U.S. theaters, many critics still praised the film and of course many anime fans still loved it anyway. The movie's biggest problem was Disney's lack of promotion for the film as they were too reliant on the idea that people would generate interest in the film through word-of-mouth alone.

If I recall correctly, didn't Disney want Princess Mononoke to not do so well since it was far more violent and mature than they were expecting when they went through Ghibli's library?

The non-conspiratorial view is that it got exactly the niche marketing that a niche film is warranted. Any wider a release, and they would have been flushing P&A (prints and advertising) money down the toilet.

Anyway, under current Academy rules, Princess Mononoke wouldn't even have been eligible, since it was released in Japan in 1997, beyond the single year extension granted to foreign films released in their country of origin the calendar year before the American release. And even if, for the sake of argument, they had made a special exception for Mononoke, I'm 99.9% certain that Toy Story 2 would have taken the BAF award had it existed. Mononoke would have had an uphill battle even just to be nominated, considering it would probably have been far outspent in the "For Your Consideration" campaigning by Toy Story 2, The Iron Giant, South Park: Bigger, Longer, and Uncut, and, probably, Tarzan.

So it looks like Dreamworks and Aardman are divorcing,
making me wonder if Flushed Away will still get the push it needs.

so did paprika get screened? because i want something to root for, this years emmy's was like picking the better of 5 animation evils (sans Fosters Home)

i really hope Satoshi Kon wins because face it: American animation is in the crapper, even our big budget stuff is amateur at best.

fawhoooosh!

FlamingPinecone wrote:

so did paprika get screened? because i want something to root for, this years emmy's was like picking the better of 5 animation evils (sans Fosters Home)

i really hope Satoshi Kon wins because face it: American animation is in the crapper, even our big budget stuff is amateur at best.

fawhoooosh!

I wouldn't say ALL american animation is bad. We generally don't place as much importance on animation quality like the Japanese do (and often those that do, for whatever reason, don't do well--see Treasure Planet, Invader Zim, etc etc), but there's still shows and movies that have a good art style, decent plot, and good acting here in the US. Foster's is one example--and I'm hoping that Happy Feet will be another (hope, hope, hope....) There's an upcoming Disney film that I'm hoping will help raise the bar for the currently dumbed-down company--a movie based on Rapunzel that's being overseen by John Lasseter, and directed by Glen Keane--an excellent animator who worked in traditionally animated Disney films like Beauty and the Beast and Aladdin. Of course, it's not coming out until 2009...

MorwenLaicoriel wrote:

There's an upcoming Disney film that I'm hoping will help raise the bar for the currently dumbed-down company--a movie based on Rapunzel that's being overseen by John Lasseter, and directed by Glen Keane--an excellent animator who worked in traditionally animated Disney films like Beauty and the Beast and Aladdin. Of course, it's not coming out until 2009...

Oh, I can't wait for that movie! I've already been looking forward to it for a year now; I don't know how I'm going to be able to wait another 3. I've always been a huge Glen Keane fan and look forward to his directoral debut with great anticipation.

no one answered my question; is paprika screening in LA?

because even thought i haven't seen it, it's Satoshi Kon, i'd trust him with my genitals were the case scenario presented.

i really want something i really like to go at the oscars, not trite 3-d garbage or something mediorcre. Alladin guy huh? pfft.

furthermore: family guy was up for an emmy. any critiques i make on the general state of american animation have at least some validity.

preemptive strike: im not just a OMG AMERICAN BAD JAPAN GOOD mindless sheep, i like more american animation than japanese, but when you can count the number of watchable shows currently on american televison on one hand it's pretty pathetic.

where have all the cowboys gone?

fawhoooosh!

Yeah, ever since I watched the special features on Beauty and the Beast that explained how Keane animated the 'Beast transformation sequence' I've been a HUGE fan. He's practically Miyazaki-like in some of his detail, and I REALLY think he can pull it off.

As for Paprika, as far as I know, it's not currently being shown in LA--since that's what the article says. I don't live in LA, though, so I don't know if it's changed since when the article was written.

And yes, in general American animation isn't that great currently--although I think it helps that we actually *live* here in the US. It's pretty easy to ignore bad anime when it comes out because most of it isn't on our TV channels or playing in our theaters. And I think that anime fandom is helping american animation somewhat, in terms of setting the bar a little higher and allowing for slightly more 'dark' and 'serious' shows (although, then again, several animated movies that had an older audience in mind have failed in recent years, like Titan A.E. and Treasure Planet).

FlamingPinecone wrote:

no one answered my question; is paprika screening in LA?

Yes it is.
Go go nomination eligibility!

Laemmle's Grande Theatre
Monday, Nov. 20, 2006 through Sunday Nov. 26, 2006

Laemmle's GRANDE 4-PLEX
345 S. Figueroa St.
Los Angeles, CA 90071
Phone: 213-617-0268

Is that an exclusive screening for Academy Members only? Because I don't see it listed on the site.

Forum - View topic
NEWS: Paprika May Contend for Oscar

Dark Moon: The Blood Altar Volumes 1-2 Manhwa Review

Interview: Voice Actors Rika Hayashi and Hiroki Tōchi Talk About Their New Golf Anime, Tonbo!

Japanese TV Special Ranks Top Anime Songs, as Chosen by Foreign Fans

This Week in Anime - So, Is Sound Euphonium Queerbaiting or Not?

Wonderful Precure! Episodes 1-12 Anime Review

That Time I Got Reincarnated as a Slime: The Ways of Monster Nation Manga Ends Due to Artist's Health

Dead Dead Demon's Dededede Destruction Part 1 Anime Film Review

Eiyuden Chronicle: Hundred Heroes Game Review

Forum - View topicNEWS: Paprika May Contend for Oscar

Forum

Forum - View topic
NEWS: Paprika May Contend for Oscar