×
  • remind me tomorrow
  • remind me next week
  • never remind me
Subscribe to the ANN Newsletter • Wake up every Sunday to a curated list of ANN's most interesting posts of the week. read more

Forum - View topic
EP. REVIEW: Yurikuma Arashi


Goto page Previous    Next

Note: this is the discussion thread for this article

Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
anonamon



Joined: 05 Feb 2015
Posts: 15
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:12 am Reply with quote
JesuOtaku wrote:
1) This is at least the second time you've made a special "writing advice for you!" post. I ignored the first one, but figured I should butt in if you plan to keep doing that.

2) Speaking from the perspective of a fellow reviewer, unsolicited "writing advice for you!" posts are literally the most annoying responses to my work I can imagine getting.


1) I'm 99.99% sure you're confusing me with someone else. I'd be 100% sure but I don't know how to find my old posts. I do know that was the first time I've ever addressed one of Gabriella's reviews directly and I would never bring up someone's grammar or writing style while responding to a forum post.

2) Sure, I can see why it's annoying but like anything you put out there for public consumption sometimes there's going to be criticism and sometimes it's helpful, sometimes it's not. I enjoy reading Gabriella's reviews every week and appreciate the work and the research she puts into them and obviously I was hoping to be helpful, and I apologize if I offended instead.

As for
Quote:
so they're just decisions made in the interest of not using the same words too many times in a sentence. It's a different school of thought in writing, but perfectly valid. It can give required plot sum-up in particular a more dramatic tone, which can make the sentence more tongue-in-cheek grandiose and fun.

I respect your opinion but I think I'll defer to Mr. Bernstein on that issue and leave it at that.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mr. Nescio



Joined: 13 Jul 2011
Posts: 165
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 2:03 am Reply with quote
Right now it does not seem off-topic to point out that H. C. Andersen's name is written wrong (three times).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CrowLia



Joined: 24 Feb 2012
Posts: 5504
Location: Mexico
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:04 am Reply with quote
I've got to say I've grown rather cold towards this series. The characters and the situations seem so caught up with being symbolic they've completely lost any human appeal to me. They're all walking catch-phrases that have become way too repetitive. "If you don't give up on love you'll never be alone" has been repeated at least 5 times per episode since it was first mentioned. "Promise Kiss" "Door of Friends" "Let's search evil" "Is your love the real thing?" "Invisible Storm". This show is just prime material for a drinking game. And my favorite catchphrase "Shaba-da-doo" and "Shock! Kuma Shock!" weren't even in this episode

There's also something that sounds awkward about the use of "suki" for "love" that for some reason makes me uncomfortable. If I read a subtitle with the noun "love" (I will never back down on love) I expect to hear "I will never back down on ai", and even after 11 episodes, hearing "I will never back down on suki" is just weird. I can't really explain it, it's just unsettling.

But that's just a personal nitpick. My real problem is really, that the characters seem like completely unreal metaphors, rather than humans. The most human character is Lulu, she was the one I liked the most because she was relatable, she felt like a real person with real emotions, not a representation of whatever Ikuhara is trying to say about the social hipocrisy towards lesbianism in Japan. The climax of the episode, with Ginko rejecting "desire" for the sake of "love" felt just empty to me because the whole "love" between her and Kureha has felt so platonically distant I just can't connect with their feelings. I felt a bigger connection with Lulu sacrificing herself last week to tell Kureha the truth, and this week, by blessing Ginko's love for Kureha, even though I can't quite care about whether their romance/friendship succeeds. I just felt sad for Lulu because she was so relatable.

I don't remember who said it, but the symbolic meaning of bears/hungry lesbians vs humans/cute marketable lesbians is clever and interesting, I'm totally for making anime with a message, but this time the message seems to have completely overwhelmed the story, and so the narrative becomes nothing but a very bare and not particularly engaging excuse to transmit the message.

The emotional climax at the end of Penguindrum had me sobbing and crying like a baby. I originally said that if YKA could give me half of that emotional catharsis, I would love it. I really liked the first episode of this series because it was crazy and full of potential, but one week before the finale, the emotions seemed to have missed their mark, at least for me, which makes me sad. I almost wish I'd dropped this and kept watching Maria the Virgin Witch, sounds a lot more like my kinda show.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
SailorTralfamadore



Joined: 25 Feb 2014
Posts: 499
Location: Keep Austin Weeb
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:57 am Reply with quote
NothingIfNot wrote:
I think you have a mistaken idea if you think it never is. I mean, do want examples of papers on the latent colonialism of Jane Austen? Because I can send you enough of those to keep you in reading material for years.

I wasn't saying all academic criticism is bad. As is possibly obvious from my congenitally pompous writing style, I spend a considerable amount of time reading academic critics whom I admire.


Actually, I'm well-versed in what academic criticism is and isn't, as a graduate student in the humanities myself. I don't know if I'd agree with you about that particular example (at least, based on the description you gave), but I wasn't saying that there isn't obtuse or overreaching academic crit out there. I said it's not where places like Tumblr are getting their issues. It's actually really obvious that "whiningaboutyuri" isn't, because she's not even "reading too much into it" in the first place. Quite the opposite: she's basing everything on her kneejerky personal feelings, and not doing anything to dig deeper into the show's themes or symbolism or anything like that. Which is pretty frowned-upon in academia, where you pretty much always have to have an intellectual argument for why you feel the way you do about a work. You have to present your ideas so that they're applicable and understandable to people who don't share your experiences. You can never just say "I feel, therefore it is." But that attitude is very common in fandom.

I don't want to keep going on about this one silly blog. Just pointing out that when you're making massive generalizations about really broad things, you shouldn't assume the people telling you "it's more complicated than that" know less about it than you do. In fact, it's usually the opposite. But in general, disagreement ≠ ignorance.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website My Anime My Manga
justsomeaccount



Joined: 24 Oct 2014
Posts: 471
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 8:51 am Reply with quote
P.S.: If maybe this post went too heavy on tone I apologize it wasn't my intention.

Quote:
There's a tight present-tense narrative that plays out from the first episode to the last, but our initial impressions of characters are constantly re-contextualized by flashbacks, which build to a nuanced conception of them and their relationships.

So basically now are we praising the director for just making a linear narrative with flashbacks in the middle to explain the characters? Really? Like, 95% of current stories? Next time are we going to praise this director as the greatest because there's music or the characters talk?

Quote:
Even if they were bullies, Kureha is now being punished for their deaths, showing that violence only begets more violence.

Maybe if they'd imply or hint that the yuris are driven out of hatred or ressentment because of losing friends, or that Kureha is targeted because of their deaths, or I don't know, SOMETHING, maybe that message would ring true. As it's shown, it's just "bears = evil, collaboring with bears = evil", it doesn't matter if it happened now or in episode 1 before all these deaths. The show doesn't even attemp to condemn Ginko for her killings, only Sumika, its position is "screw the rest of evil yuris", because that's how the show treats them, 100% evil, without a bit of humanization or doubts or tridimensionality or something.

The flashback of Kureha tortured by that legion? I thought that was hilariously ridiculous, it's so sudden, over the top and unnatural that it's hard to be perturbed. And I get the "Kureha is being smashed by the collective mentality and prejudices", but this is so pure black evil and without layers that it doesn't work in context (even with that scene they don't establish "you are collaboring with killers / the ones who want to destroy us" in the collective's reasons as justification of their actions, even if it's fake) and it's so simple I'm not learning anything. Wow, what this show has taught me about lesbian prejudice: It's evil. Don't do it.

Quote:
I think the solution Yurikuma will come to is the same as the one in Penguindrum – you can't avoid pain altogether, but you can form bonds of love in order to share and overwhelm it. Yurikuma looks like it might mirror Penguindrum's ending of tripartite salvation leading to transcendence. [...] In Yurikuma, Kureha saves Lulu, (taking her to the Door of Friends), Lulu saves Ginko, (taking the bullet for her), and Ginko saves Kureha, (dragging her out of the blizzard).

Again, what's so incredible about this "friends doing some sacrifice for each other out of love" as a main message? I would at least see 'different' what the reviewer wrote in the previous episode about the 'triangular relationship' where the three are happily together and rejecting a binary relationship (although I still wouldn't find poignant since many of them don't even love each other that much, but whatever).
But no, this show doesn't even attemp that. It shows complications about love conflicts, and what's its answer for (what it looks it's going to be) the ending? Very easy: Kureha and Ginko will end up together, but what about Lulu complicating things? I know, let's kill her! That way she's just a sad figure and the remaining characters at the end can be happily together without complications that don't satisfy them all! And Kureha's mother is not a flawed person, she and her tale is destiny and rightness personified.

That's so clearly trying to hide your conflicts under the carpet, which harms the story in this case when it's one of the main conflicts and focus of the story, and when the show is sooo heavy about bottom lines and trying to teach you something. Which is very typical and common in stories to be honest, but that's why I can't see that brilliance out of this, it's super simplistic and uneven in substance, the only thing I see aside of it is the style (which I find annoying, pretentious and void of emotion) and being about lesbians, that's it. And learning about the lesbian part was more full-filling for the articles linked in these discussions, not the show itself that maybe it's kind of accurate but in representation it's so cartoonishly black-and-white that even knowing that it's still hard to point out actual similarities.

And I still don't know why Kureha should be with Ginko. Ginko is saving her, yes, but that doesn't mean love. Child promises? Bullshit, if the child promise is a link so they can have a connection, okay, it shows bears and yuris could be together fine, but actual true love goes aside of it and it would only work if Kureha developed current real feelings for Ginko, not only the past. And although the show criticizes Ginko's possessiveness and get over it, Kureha is still going to love her only because the scripts says so and "child promises" / "Kureha's mother's tale" / "come on you have no option". If the last episode says "No, Kureha won't love her this way but they can support each other anyway now that both are rejected by both systems anyway" (or something between these lines) I'll eat my own words, but it doesn't look it's going through it.

Still not seeing what the religious stuff adds to this story and issues, it looks like an after-thought because they didn't know what kind of problem to put within the bears' society. About many of the visual elements, this is just interpretation, but can't be elements inserted because it makes the composition and design much more visually clear, instead of being every single detail a deep high-concept thing? I guess Kureha's age, their clothes' design, the characters' haircut or the distance between their eyes are deep mind-blowing symbolism too.

I'll keep my final judgment for the last episode, but it will have to be really something to change my current opinion of the show as a whole.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NothingIfNot



Joined: 25 Feb 2015
Posts: 35
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:10 am Reply with quote
anonamon wrote:
I just wanted to point out a couple of awkward sentences in this weeks review:

"...Kureha lost her memories of Ginko because the bear traded them away to the Court of Severance in exchange for the ability to become human."

and

"Sure, they impose things on her, but the Lone Wolfsbane continues to insist that she can both..."

The bolded parts are easily fixed by replacing them with "she" and "Ginko" respectively.

It seems to me that using "she" in the first one could easily create confusion ("Wait, who traded memories away? Kureha or Ginko?"). As for the second, using "the Lone Wolfsbane" reminds us that of the significance of the scene where Ginko was called that to the scene under discussion, and vise versa.

Though of course the reviewer's reasons for writing what she did might be completely different.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Blood-
Bargain Hunter



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 23769
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:38 am Reply with quote
@ Crowlia - I know where you are coming from with respect to the distancing effect that devices like repeating key phrases, etc, can have on forming emotional attachments to the characters. I experienced that earlier on in the show, myself. I'm still not a huge fan of, "let's completely break up the narrative flow 70 times an episode to have a flashback or some other sort of digression." However, what has surprised me is that my emotional investment in the characters and their situations has steadily grown despite these distancing elements. Mind you, I'm the kind of easily manipulated wuss who can cry at an effectively done 15-second commercial, so I'm not sure I'm the best barometer...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
NothingIfNot



Joined: 25 Feb 2015
Posts: 35
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:40 am Reply with quote
justsomeaccount wrote:
So basically now are we praising the director for just making a linear narrative with flashbacks in the middle to explain the characters? Really? Like, 95% of current stories?

Oh come on. I don't believe that you actually think Yurikuma's use of flashbacks - so many of them, dispensing information in such a piecemeal way - is like "95% of current stories."

justsomeaccount wrote:
its position is "screw the rest of evil yuris", because that's how the show treats them, 100% evil, without a bit of humanization or doubts or tridimensionality or something.

No it isn't.

justsomeaccount wrote:
The show doesn't even attemp to condemn Ginko for her killings

This is correct, and interesting. Though your finding in it simply a reason to morally disapprove of the show just raises the question of what the bears and "yuris"/humans have come to represent for you.

I'm reminded of when Wolf's Rain was first airing on Adult Swim and a lot of people on the internet complained toward the end about its supposedly asserting the superiority of wolves over humans. I confess that this is a variety of moralizing that I haven't yet understood to my satisfaction. (Oh no, now people are going to think it's okay for bears and wolves to oppress humans in real life!)

justsomeaccount wrote:
The flashback of Kureha tortured by that legion? I thought that was hilariously ridiculous, it's so sudden, over the top and unnatural that it's hard to be perturbed.

It is hilariously over the top - quite consciously so - but that doesn't stop it from also being perturbing.

I'm guessing that either you had an exceptionally easy time going through primary and secondary education, or you've suppressed memories.

----------

SailorTralfamadore wrote:
...she's basing everything on her kneejerky personal feelings, and not doing anything to dig deeper into the show's themes or symbolism or anything like that. Which is pretty frowned-upon in academia, where you pretty much always have to have an intellectual argument for why you feel the way you do about a work. You have to present your ideas so that they're applicable and understandable to people who don't share your experiences. You can never just say "I feel, therefore it is."

Eh, you pretty much can, if instead of calling it "personal feelings," you call it "hearing from different voices." It helps if you yourself belong to the group whose voice you're claiming to represent - women, racial or ethnic minorities, developing countries, LGB and/or T* - but it's not mandatory.

SailorTralfamadore wrote:
But in general, disagreement ≠ ignorance.

You started this exchange by assuming I didn't know anything about academic criticism.

----------

Blood- wrote:
However, what has surprised me is that my emotional investment in the characters and their situations has steadily grown despite these distancing elements.

Agreed. After the first few episodes, I would have said Yurikuma was a show about atmosphere and ideas, in which the characters themselves were intended to be mere cyphers. Not anymore!

In retrospect, this seems to me one of the most impressive things about the show: How the three main characters slowly and imperceptibly emerge, from the bombardment of metaphors within metaphors, recurring symbols, absurdist jokes, excursions into camp, narrative lacunae, and flashbacks re-contextualizing what you've already seen, as real people and make you fall in love with them.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
anonamon



Joined: 05 Feb 2015
Posts: 15
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:38 pm Reply with quote
NothingIfNot wrote:
anonamon wrote:
I just wanted to point out a couple of awkward sentences in this weeks review:

"...Kureha lost her memories of Ginko because the bear traded them away to the Court of Severance in exchange for the ability to become human."

and

"Sure, they impose things on her, but the Lone Wolfsbane continues to insist that she can both..."

The bolded parts are easily fixed by replacing them with "she" and "Ginko" respectively.

It seems to me that using "she" in the first one could easily create confusion ("Wait, who traded memories away? Kureha or Ginko?"). As for the second, using "the Lone Wolfsbane" reminds us that of the significance of the scene where Ginko was called that to the scene under discussion, and vise versa.

Though of course the reviewer's reasons for writing what she did might be completely different.


You'll find the answers in Henry Watson Fowler take on elegant variation in his book Dictionary of Modern English Usage as well as Theodore Bernstein's book The Careful Writer. Or any other writer's reference really.

Unfortunately the wiki entry on elegant variation is missing an important part of the passage, which reads:

"Diametrically opposed to them are sentences in which the writer, far from carelessly repeating a word in a different application, has carefully not repeated it in a similar application. The effect is to set readers wondering what the significance of the change is, only to conclude disappointingly that it has none."

Apologies for going off-topic as well as for any inadvertent oppression.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NothingIfNot



Joined: 25 Feb 2015
Posts: 35
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:46 pm Reply with quote
I'm getting the distinct impression that you didn't read my post.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
vonPeterhof



Joined: 10 Nov 2014
Posts: 729
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:00 pm Reply with quote
CrowLia wrote:
There's also something that sounds awkward about the use of "suki" for "love" that for some reason makes me uncomfortable. If I read a subtitle with the noun "love" (I will never back down on love) I expect to hear "I will never back down on ai", and even after 11 episodes, hearing "I will never back down on suki" is just weird. I can't really explain it, it's just unsettling.
This has been brought up on this thread before, and my response seems to have vanished due to the bug that erased a week's worth of posts. This usage is somewhat unusual, but it isn't exactly ungrammatical. "Suki" is structurally an adjective and it often gets translated into English using the verbs, but Japanese na-adjectives like "suki" have a lot in common with nouns. A lot of them can shift between the role of a noun and an adjective depending on the context, or assume the grammatical function of an omitted noun they describe (e.g. "taikutsu wa/ga/wo" - boredom, boring stuff; "taikutsu na" - boring). The most popular Google search result for "好きを" ("suki wo") is a book titled 好きを仕事に!, which, judging by the subtitle and the phrases on the cover is supposed to mean something to the effect of "[turning something you] like into work!" A lot of the other results for this term, as well as "の好きは" ("no suki wa"), seem to be using "suki" to mean things one loves (i.e. na-adjective "suki" standing in for the noun phrase "suki na mono/koto") or the feeling/state/condition of liking something or someone (i.e. standing in for "suki to iu kimochi/jōtai/kanjō".

This usage is probably not unusual enough to sound wrong in Japanese, but it does seem unusual enough to feel deliberate. I also like Selipse's earlier suggestion that "suki" was chosen because it's "kisu" (kiss") with the syllables backwards.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
CrowLia



Joined: 24 Feb 2012
Posts: 5504
Location: Mexico
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:29 pm Reply with quote
justsomeaccount just made me realize another reason that the show has no emotional impact on me: Everything's so awfully black and white. Heroes are not nuanced, nor ar villains. There are three moments of grayishness:
1. Lulu betraying Ginko. Never really explained and got forgotten quickly.
2. Yuriika's love for Reia. Redemption by death and we're over it.
3. Ginko's feral desire represented by Yurizono. Didn't last more than an episode and was never a real threat for Kureha.

Aside for these three moments, good girls have always been good and bad girls have always been bad. I suppose the Invisible Storm/Exclusion Committee is supposed to represent blind mob mentality/heteronormativity that has no actual arguments or goals and just judges people because they can, but this, once again, doesn't make for much compelling storytelling. These girls are not nuanced, much like the protagonists, they're just walking metaphors so I can hardly even dislike them.

So basically, without a compelling villain, the heroes' struggle seems all the more vacant and I don't really feel compelled to root for them.

And then there's the Judgmens (the patriarchy). I don't know what Ikuhara wants us to feel about them. If the patriarchy = bad, then why is the patriarchy giving the bears permission to do whatever they want? Maybe we're supposed to reject the idea of lesbians needing the patriarchy's sanctioning to be lesbians, but so far we have seen no one getting their yuri disapproved.

Basically, even though I intellectually understand the basic metaphors and symbolisms (I think), the way the story is told doesn't help make me invested in any of these themes. It's not telling me anything new about the point it wants to make, and it has done a supreme effort in making its characters as ethereal and unrelatable as possible so I just don't get any emotional payoff from it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
justsomeaccount



Joined: 24 Oct 2014
Posts: 471
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:39 pm Reply with quote
NothingIfNot wrote:
Oh come on. I don't believe that you actually think Yurikuma's use of flashbacks - so many of them, dispensing information in such a piecemeal way - is like "95% of current stories."

Em... yes? There aren't so many flashbacks that it goes to its own category, and they give to you the selected information they want like a flashback does. Very standard overall. Which is perfectly fine, but it's not praise-worthy by itself.

Quote:
This is correct, and interesting. Though your finding in it simply a reason to morally disapprove of the show just raises the question of what the bears and "yuris"/humans have come to represent for you.

By itself it's no problem at all, it's when you combine it with 1- the "they are treated as just pure evil" part that I've personally not seen challenged, and 2- the framing and tone of the show in so many scenes and characters of "this is wrong feel bad for this, this is right feel good for this" that makes when a part like that is ignored sort of like "oh, it doesn't matter, don't care about them". If you challenge only one of those two it's perfectly fine, but when it's both and you put a scene with this framing it doesn't work for me, it feels like the show is purposely ignoring them and not caring. Obviously I don't think this is a mean-spirited message or something, but it limits the perspective of the show and characters, and therefore makes it harder to take seriously.

Quote:
It is hilariously over the top - quite consciously so - but that doesn't stop it from also being perturbing.

Oh, the intention is clear, it just the execution was too ridiculous for me to feel a bit of disturbance.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ANN_Lynzee
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 02 May 2011
Posts: 2944
Location: Email for assistance only
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:52 pm Reply with quote
CrowLia wrote:
So basically, without a compelling villain, the heroes' struggle seems all the more vacant and I don't really feel compelled to root for them.


I 100% agree with this, and also reiterate other posters in that I never managed to get attached to any of the lead characters and the obsessive buzzword usage drives me nuts.

I think the Invisible Storm could have made for a great villain if the story spent more time in school's social structure and less time in fantasy-like flashbacks.

This show feels the same, tonally, like one of the Nanami joke episodes from Utena with Nanami as the villain spoiler[only she never gets around to drowning the cat.] I'm not a fan of Ikuhara's goofy humor (I'm a hard sell on comedy in general) but usually I can look past it for all the other things I usually enjoy for his work.

I also agree with the previous poster that this hasn't managed to pull off much but a very predictable, linear story with a lot of symbolic flare. I'm willing to accept being one of the few Ikuhara fans that will end up disappointed with Yurikuma. This may be do to my own personal bias as someone expecting to really relate to the show's message but didn't end up seeing a representation of my experiences on the screen. I'd appreciate if the word "friendship" was just outright stated to be homosexual love, if that's what it's supposed to be. It really rubs me the wrong way.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website My Anime My Manga
NothingIfNot



Joined: 25 Feb 2015
Posts: 35
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 2:19 pm Reply with quote
CrowLia wrote:
I suppose the Invisible Storm/Exclusion Committee is supposed to represent blind mob mentality/heteronormativity that has no actual arguments or goals and just judges people because they can

I find it, well, noteworthy that several people here have said they don't see a motive behind the actions of the Invisible Storm, when Sexy explicitly stated the motive during the binoculars scene. (Not that it was hard to figure out before that.)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous    Next
Page 20 of 25

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group