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Hey, Answerman! [2006-11-10]


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SalarymanJoe



Joined: 03 Feb 2005
Posts: 468
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 1:46 pm Reply with quote
Cowboy Cadenza wrote:
Avatar of Justice wrote:
Don't blame Funimation for censoring. Blame a society that will attack and hurt Funimation's business if Funimation doesn't censor the material. I guess Funimation could make a stand, but they'd just have their reputation hurt and shareholders would pull out. A publically traded company has no choice but to appease shareholders, who in turn just want to make money. Appealing to social norms is a good way to do this.


FUNimation didn't edit anything that we're talking about...the FMA manga is VIZ. FUNimation has the anime, and the DVD releases of the FMA anime are all unedited.


Even though you are correct, I think there is a point that can be made: a lot of companies, either in the past or present catch a lot of flak for edits or "censorship"; however, what is the alternative?

AnimEigo, despite how much I love them as a company and their products, have released everything to my knowledge absolutely uncut. But, and a part of this may be due to their library, they are routinly outsold by every one else in the marketplace. In short - they go after the hardcore market (You know, the one brought up most often in censorship rants) and they're barely floating as a company. In the meantime, other companies like Viz and FUNimation, who are constantly accused of editing, are experiencing comparitive financial health. 4Kids also turns large profits, despite One Piece on TV being considered a 'flop'. The process, whether one likes it or not, is almost necessary to survive as a company.

I think a company who steps up to the plate and says "yeah, we did it and here's why..." is exercising a responsibility to thier customers. Ultimately, customers usually make the decision of how much companies "can get away" with. Why with manga more edits occur than on DVD is something I am still trying to wrap my brain around.
============================
This goes out to all of the people who say "I'm not buying manga from XXX company again becasue of ... edits!": Fine, exercise you capitalistic might to refuse the product; if you want the manga that bad in a "pure, unedited form" then buy your manga from Japan. I'll even say to avoid scanlations because a few I've seen edit and adjust the word bubbles to fit the new text. Learn Japanese, buy Japanese manga and the problem is solved.
=============================
Concerning the "non-anime cosplay" issue; it has always been something that has either irked or outright bothered me. Sure, it's cool that anime fans have interests outside of anime (in fact, I strongly recommend it) but the point of an anime con is for anime fandom. I suppose manga can be included by proxy, but I'm one to think non-anime/manga based video games should be right out. This is probably why I could never actually run an anime con.

Drew "Suiko" Sutton
http://akibaren.blogspot.com
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Vicserr



Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 480
Location: Carolina, Puerto Rico USA
PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 1:46 pm Reply with quote
Keonyn wrote:
Oh hooray, interesting rant, another purist offended by the fact that a dub or a translation is actually a translation and yet again we go in to the honorifics deal which is fast become the latest dead horse. As for the concept of Americanization, do people not realize it goes both ways, or do they just elect to ignore it because when something is converted to an anime friendly style it fits their tastes and apparently only their tastes matter.


I do wish for translation to be as close to what is said in any language

This does remind me of the ad thant ran on the back of Starlog magazine many, many years ago with the early US Renditions releases(Gunbuster, Dangaio, $35.00, sub only on VHS Shocked - Boy, I feel old Laughing Cool ) with a speech bubble with 3 or 4 lines in japanese and "Run Noriko, Run" on the english speech bubble... so Í appreciate a competent translation.

But I definately won't go overboard as some people do Rolling Eyes
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HeeroTX



Joined: 15 Jul 2002
Posts: 2046
Location: Austin, TX
PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 2:47 pm Reply with quote
SalarymanJoe wrote:
AnimEigo, despite how much I love them as a company and their products, have released everything to my knowledge absolutely uncut. But, and a part of this may be due to their library, they are routinly outsold by every one else in the marketplace. In short - they go after the hardcore market (You know, the one brought up most often in censorship rants) and they're barely floating as a company. In the meantime, other companies like Viz and FUNimation, who are constantly accused of editing, are experiencing comparitive financial health. 4Kids also turns large profits, despite One Piece on TV being considered a 'flop'. The process, whether one likes it or not, is almost necessary to survive as a company.

As much as I love AnimEigo and as much as I BOUGHT both their DVD releases of AMG (the old and the new) they are targetting the hardcore market and it ain't the editting that's killing them it IS the title choice.

C'mon, Urusei Yatsura was a great show (15 years ago) but it's very LONG (thus, hard to get on shelves) and it doesn't sell in any massive quantities and no amount of edits is gonna change that. It's full of puns and very Japanese gags and has animation that screams it's age. (see how original Gundam is doing, is Bandai screwing up their editting/distribution process?) Likewise, KOR is too OLD, BGC was great for it's time, but ain't gonna fire people up today. etc etc. And now they're gonna get Yawara? Again, I love AnimEigo, and I respect them for going with what they WANT, but they'd never be the top of the heap with those niche titles. I have no issue with that and if the people running AnimEigo are comfortable with their niche, then good for them.

edit: Heck, look at Detective Conan, a great long running OLD show, how's that doing for FUNi, that all successful company? What about Lupin? Old shows are a TOUGH sell.


Last edited by HeeroTX on Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
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fighterholic



Joined: 28 Sep 2005
Posts: 9193
PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:24 pm Reply with quote
I have to say that there were some interesting questions this week, a very good read. I remember at AX I saw Guilty Gear, Sephiroth, Soul Calibur 3 characters, which wasn't very surprising, but to see Jedi there was something else.
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mistress_reebi



Joined: 07 Jan 2005
Posts: 735
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:28 pm Reply with quote
SalarymanJoe wrote:

In the meantime, other companies like Viz and FUNimation, who are constantly accused of editing, are experiencing comparitive financial health. 4Kids also turns large profits, despite One Piece on TV being considered a 'flop'. The process, whether one likes it or not, is almost necessary to survive as a company.

I think a company who steps up to the plate and says "yeah, we did it and here's why..." is exercising a responsibility to thier customers. Ultimately, customers usually make the decision of how much companies "can get away" with.


Viz, 4Kids and FUNimation are more commercial, therefore they have more money because of their larger market. They have shows on the television backing them up, which improves their sales. Because their shows are on television, they have to edit them to meet the standards of parents. Tokyo Mew Mew is an excellent example why editing an anime loses the customer. Mew Mew Power was a failure because no one wants to see an Americanized version of an Anime that is changed completely. Ten years ago companies could get away with editing because anime back then didn't have as big as a market as today. Today, consumers are interested in the uncut version to anime because they want to see it in its original content. Also, people are more libreral and open to nudity, violence, etc. then they were ten years ago. The anime fans are usually teenagers to young adults not children, so that is why anime fans dislike the censorship in anime because they are mature enough to handle it.
Quote:
Why with manga more edits occur than on DVD is something I am still trying to wrap my brain around.



With manga the rating is on usually on the back, and with anime it's usually at the front, so instead of parents sueing the companies because they didn't see the suggested age on the back they censor more out.



[/quote]
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scrapps



Joined: 16 Mar 2006
Posts: 43
PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:42 pm Reply with quote
I will never understand why some people are so negative towards non-anime/manga/video game costumes.

We're not talking about people walking around with their testicles hanging out, but people who are interested in things other then anime. If you are that bothered by what other people wear, you have some issues you may want to deal with before you attend another convention.
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Ataru



Joined: 04 Jan 2002
Posts: 2305
Location: Missouri (Strikeman)
PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 4:29 pm Reply with quote
RyoShin wrote:
Still, less than a week and a half!

"It's like waiting for Chirstmas... times a thousand."

Saddly, I will be in a line. The only store that did pre-orders, EB, filled up an hour after I got there. Lucky, Wal-Mart is 24/7, so I can hang out there till midnight. But if I actually don't get it there, I'll be at on of the many gaming stores very bright and very early, and catch the next James Bond movie on top of it. Razz

Must have game to get with it? Zelda dah.

EDIT: Just one thousand.


Last edited by Ataru on Sat Nov 11, 2006 10:00 am; edited 1 time in total
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SalarymanJoe



Joined: 03 Feb 2005
Posts: 468
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 4:37 pm Reply with quote
HeeroTX wrote:
edit: Heck, look at Detective Conan, a great long running OLD show, how's that doing for FUNi, that all successful company? What about Lupin? Old shows are a TOUGH sell.


No disagreements here. While I may personally lament it, there's no denying it.

HeeroTX wrote:

As much as I love AnimEigo and as much as I BOUGHT both their DVD releases of AMG (the old and the new) they are targetting the hardcore market and it ain't the editting that's killing them it IS the title choice.


While I am inclined to agree that title-choice is their biggest problem in regards to becoming a larger entity like Viz, FUNi, or anyone else in the Industry, I have seen few accolades from fans about how good of a job they do on the titles they release. Whether or not one enjoys the show can be independent of how good a job is done on that production.

And this might be where it is relavent, that AnimEigo releases anime without replacing jokes, puns, references or anything like that. I think if every company functioned on this model, there would be fewer fans than now and the size of the Industry, as a whole, would shrink.

heeroTX wrote:
C'mon, Urusei Yatsura was a great show (15 years ago) but it's very LONG (thus, hard to get on shelves) and it doesn't sell in any massive quantities and no amount of edits is gonna change that. It's full of puns and very Japanese gags and has animation that screams it's age. (see how original Gundam is doing, is Bandai screwing up their editting/distribution process?)


Is Bandai adjusting thier model because the original Gundam has done poorly in sales over several years, or more because they expected Wing-esque numbers from SEED and SEED DESTINY?

HeeroTX wrote:
Likewise, KOR is too OLD, BGC was great for it's time, but ain't gonna fire people up today. etc etc. And now they're gonna get Yawara? Again, I love AnimEigo, and I respect them for going with what they WANT, but they'd never be the top of the heap with those niche titles. I have no issue with that and if the people running AnimEigo are comfortable with their niche, then good for them.


To be honest, I've found quite the opposite. I have a number of friends who have been fans for as long as I have and friends who have only begun watching recently in the past few years. When we get together and have mass anime nights, I'm always bringing stuff that's "too old" - and it's always a hit. Even with the guy who describes himself as liking anime that are "new and shiny". This includes titles like the aforementioned Bubblegum Crisis and [Urusei Yatsura[/b]. I see the same thing in other groups when classic anime are played in Con viewing rooms. I've seen people on Internet forums post that they followed through with a classic recommendation and they ended up loving the title.

Do they look thier age? Yeah, save for a few titles, anime looks its age and that's detrimental in a hobby where aesthetics play a huge factor. Your experience may be different than mine and I know that usually getting someone to actually take the time to watch a title is the hardest part.

scrapps wrote:
We're not talking about people walking around with their testicles hanging out, but people who are interested in things other then anime. If you are that bothered by what other people wear, you have some issues you may want to deal with before you attend another convention.


Like I said in my post, I actually encourage people to have a variety of interests, whether they choose anime or not as one of them is thier perrogitive.

For me, it's a matter of being appropriately dressed for the occaision. Just as one shouldn't wear a hawaiian shirt to a formal wedding, what if I went to some place like Penny Arcade Expo or another video gaming convention cosplaying as Uesugi Tatsuya from the anime Touch? Sure, Touch has a very minor presence in the anime community online in the US, so there's a small chance someone might recognize it, but is it appropriate. I would say it isn't. That's not to say I'm critical of everything everyone wears; if someone's wearing Jeans and a Halo, Zelda or 8 Bit Theater T-shirt, I'm thinking that they dressed for comfort. When you dress yourself in a costume, you are dressing yourself to make yourself seen. When you make a spectacle of yourself, be sure to take both the good and bad criticism as they come.

Drew "Suiko" Sutton
http://akibaren.blogspot.com
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otimus



Joined: 30 Aug 2003
Posts: 63
PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 5:33 pm Reply with quote
"It isn't about bending over for the companies, but to suggest that the companies have to bend over for you is just as ridiculous."

Hmm.. I disagree there. The purpose of a company is to please a customer to the extent that it earns them as much money as possible.

Though, in the context of which it originally came from, I agree with that.


Also..

"otimus pulled his head out of his ass and wrote:
I don't like to spend money on anime, so I'm going to pirate it and justify my stance by saying the companies are evil."

Whoa whoa whoa whoa. You took what I said way far out field.
This has nothing to do with the argument in that letter.
I honestly don't give two craps about touch ups, translations, or any of that stuff. As long as it all works well in the end, I take it and deal with it.

I just don't like people giving companies free range to screw over it's customers.
In Capitalism, your wallet is your vote, and not buying something to screw over a company is your voting power. Not tyrannical.

I wasn't even honestly considering this in the realm of anime. Just in general.
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rocklobster



Joined: 22 Jul 2005
Posts: 200
Location: Planet Claire
PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 5:56 pm Reply with quote
britannicamoore wrote:
I can understand why a person can be upset with edits though. They are annoying especially when they ruin the whole idea of the show or charcter histories. *cough*onepiece*cough*

might cost more but it seems like comapines could sell uncut mangas online only. That way people can get their fix without having to see nipple-less females or random edits. Or maybe take orders for only a certain amount and then sell those. maybe even charge a dollar or two more for thr effort.
(and yes I do know that they released unedited yugioh and shaman king dvds and it failed)

As for naruto...it is sad they edited it but they do have the uncut half season dvds.

edit: enjoyed the column. i wish people would quit about the naruto fillers though.

Yes. I think Naruto received one of the best anime treatments ever. I wish more shows were treated like it.
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red stranger



Joined: 26 Dec 2004
Posts: 184
PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 8:06 pm Reply with quote
I think some non-anime costumes are "appropriate" while others should be punished by death.

Video games are part of anime culture - how can you separate Final Fantasy - The Game franchise from Final Fantasy - the Anime franchise? You can't.

The Internet is also a big part of anime culture, since it's one of the big factors in the current boom. And it's often connected to anime in someway anyway ex: Homestar Runner>Strong Bad>Stinkoman

People dressing up as non-anime/manga comic characters at an anime only con are kind of lame though. Especially somewhere like Toronto where we have soooo many comic book conventions and mixed "Fan" cons like the the big one that happens in the early fall. Why are you dressed as Cyclops at Anime North? Is it really such a long wait until Paradise Comicon?

But I think the absolute worst are the F_cking Jedi. The anime industry may be bigger than ever, but it's still only makes as much in a year as the Star Wars Mega Franchise makes in 10 seconds.

Yeah, a lot of anime fans watch Star Wars, but so do a lot of non-anime fans. It's a mass market juggernaut that EVERYONE has heard of. You can buy Star Wars crap EVERYWHERE. Fat balding grandfathers dress as Obi-Wan to hand out candy at the senior's home halloween party, why must you do it at an Anime Convention?

What about Trekkies? Weeeeellllll... You see, Trekkies were attending cons, dressing in weird costumes, writting fan fiction, watching illegally obtained videos and lining up for autographs from obscure actors since the 70's. They know what it's like to love a show that nobody else watches. Even though Star Trek is now almost as huge a Star Wars, they should be tollerated, because they are our forebearers.
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roujin



Joined: 12 Aug 2006
Posts: 139
PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 11:28 pm Reply with quote
redcomet15 wrote:
roujin wrote:
as long as there are awesome 4chan meme cosplay, everything will be right with the wolrd.

Fix'd.

Hahaha, sorry, sorry, old habits die hard. Seriously though, if people are having fun dressing up as Internet memes at conventions, why should it be a problem as long as they aren't causing harm to themselves or anyone else? Sure, some might claim such cosplay is offensive to their tastes and that's harm enough, but personal taste is purely subjective amirite? (Oops, let another one slip~)
Oh well. To each their own, eh?


Actually I do enjoy 4chan memes but I just believe they have no place outside of 4chan.
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Cloe
Moderator


Joined: 18 Feb 2004
Posts: 2728
Location: Los Angeles, CA
PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 11:38 pm Reply with quote
Hooray for waiting in a Wii line! I somehow got suckered in to buying a Wii for my fiance (I think I didn't want to wash dishes or something, so he offered to do them forever in exchange for a Wii), so I get to camp out, too. This'll be the first time I've waited in a long long line for anything, outside of theme parks and traffic, so I'm kind of excited.
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RezSav



Joined: 06 Jun 2004
Posts: 542
PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 11:50 pm Reply with quote
Awww, the Wii. I wish people camped out where I'm at, the last line we had was for the last Lord of the Rings movie. Well, good on ya Laughing

P.S. Now, this is just a rumour, but I heard if you bring heatpads you could make mad money on those lines.
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HazelAsher



Joined: 16 Jul 2002
Posts: 48
Location: Bay Area, California
PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 12:18 am Reply with quote
red stranger wrote:
I think some non-anime costumes are "appropriate" while others should be punished by death.

I pretty much agree with everything you have to say, as well as Zac's spiel on the ol' beat-me-to-ground-with-a-blunt-spoon jokes that are tirelessly touched upon again and again at conventions. Let it go, people. Smile

But seriously...I think a lot of the non-anime costumes at cons are kinda strange. Of course, I enjoy seeing a damn good Jack Sparrow (Fanime 2005 had a great one walking around) but I expected to see more stuff like that at Comic Con.
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