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Excessive Quoting - Discussion


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Blood-
Bargain Hunter



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 8:15 pm Reply with quote
nbahn wrote:
mdo7 wrote:
Psycho 101 wrote:
Just a suggestion, but wouldn't the wall of shame work better in your opening post Tony? That way it's front and center as opposed to being on page 2? Just a thought.
Psycho 101 does have a point, and I share that same thought too.

Oh, what the hell: FWIW, I agree.

Yes, excessive quoting really burns my buns, too.

(...hee hee hee...)
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Tony K.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 8:50 pm Reply with quote
Yeah, probably should've put all of that at the top a while ago.. -_- Thanks for the reminder.

Blood- wrote:
nbahn wrote:
mdo7 wrote:
Psycho 101 wrote:
Just a suggestion, but wouldn't the wall of shame work better in your opening post Tony? That way it's front and center as opposed to being on page 2? Just a thought.
Psycho 101 does have a point, and I share that same thought too.

Oh, what the hell: FWIW, I agree.

Yes, excessive quoting really burns my buns, too.

(...hee hee hee...)


But you get a freebie since this thread is to promote it Wink.

Also, I'm gonna' throw this out there for shits and giggles, but is anyone interested in creating a banner for The Wall? Just make it SFW and adhering to ANN's posting standards, and I'll put it up.
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Greed1914



Joined: 28 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 10:08 am Reply with quote
So, how long do the strikes last, then? Resetting for New Year's was nice for those affected, but there only seems to be mention of how long moderation lasts. And leaving strikes up for a year seems a tad much.
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nobahn
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 10:25 am Reply with quote
^ (reading is always helpful)
Tony K. in part wrote:
Anyway, I think what I'll do is a 1-month Moderation duration for each user that strikes out. I'm usually pretty good at approving posts within an hour or so of their creation (unless it's overnight and I'm asleep, obviously). But as long as your post doesn't egregiously violate some rule (one-liner, being very apparently rude in response to something, over-quoting, or whatever), then it shouldn't be a problem, and I'll approve those posts as soon as I read them. The only downside for those being Moderated is the delayed appearance of their posts, which I guess can be a weird kind of torture for some.

And any over-quote slip-ups within that month will result in a single add-on of Moderated status for the *next* month, but it does not stack and will *only* go into that next month (but will carry over if you over-quote, again, *in* that month).
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Greed1914



Joined: 28 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:04 am Reply with quote
@nbahn


That only speaks about the duration of being on moderated status, which results from striking out. It doesn't actually say how long the strikes last. Trust me, I did read it thoroughly and even did a search for strikes but I could find no answer to my question within the original post that lays out the rules.
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nobahn
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:25 am Reply with quote
^
Obviously, only a moderator can provide a definitive answer, but FWIW, I think that that what applies to moderation also applies to strikes.

My $0.02
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Greed1914



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:35 am Reply with quote
That is why I'm asking for clarification. If I'm wondering about it, chances are others are, as well, so I'm hoping Tony K will pop in to clarify the point. Rules are fine, but they are even better when fully explained.
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Tony K.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 4:34 pm Reply with quote
My assumption is that one strike is enough to scare people into being more aware of the rule. I mean, how hard is it to receive the 1st of 3 warnings and remembering to just delete a few extra lines of text in a reply, or even avoiding the text altogether and simply typing "@user" the next time you post? If your memory is that short of if you're really that lazy, I don't know what else to tell ya'..

Conversely, though, while bad behavior should be reprimanded, it's only fair that good behavior also be rewarded. So let me think about it.
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Alan45
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 5:01 pm Reply with quote
@Tony K.
Good behavior is its own reward. No seriously. When people post properly, we get enthusiastic but polite, easy to follow threads. No over quoting, not incivility, no inane lists and no personal attacks. That by its self should be reward enough.

I think what you are getting at is remission of penalties based on good behavior in an otherwise bad apple.
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Redbeard 101
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 6:06 pm Reply with quote
Alan45 wrote:
@Tony K.
Good behavior is its own reward. No seriously. When people post properly, we get enthusiastic but polite, easy to follow threads. No over quoting, not incivility, no inane lists and no personal attacks. That by its self should be reward enough.

I think what you are getting at is remission of penalties based on good behavior in an otherwise bad apple.

I have always been of the mind set you shouldn't be rewarded for simply being good. As in you shouldn't have to bribe or reward someone for simply being good and decent. People should simply do that because it's just polite and nice period. So I agree with you Alan that good behavior is it's own reward.

That being said I have a suggestion or two. Moderation status lasts 1 month right? Well initially anyways. I imagine if someone gets on moderation status 2-3 times or more for this they might need a vacation. But I digress. So going by the fact moderation status lasts 1 month how about if a poster can go 1 month without an infraction they get a strike taken off. So we'd need to not only add a strike to their name on the wall of shame but add the date as well. Simple and easy. The day you send the PM you're already adding the strike on the wall of shame so what's a few more numbers next to it? Then 1 month later if the user has not gotten another strike they get one taken off. If they get another strike than that 1 month span starts over. So if they were at 3 weeks and 6 days and then did it again, tough luck you now have 2 strikes and have to wait another full month before one can be taken off.

Now the one downside to this is suppose a user keeps getting 1 strike every 5-6 weeks. They never get put on moderation because they never hit 3 strikes cause one keeps being taken off. In those circumstances special exceptions can be made based on quantity of strikes. Like say a user has 5 strikes in a 7-8 month span. That user could still qualify for moderation status. I wouldn't expect to see many of those however. Plus if a user is only getting 1 strike every 2-3 months I am more inclined to still go by the above mentioned idea as they are not a more serious problem IMHO. The ones doing it constantly and repeatedly in short spans of time are the bigger issue I feel. Regardless of this second aspect I think the idea above is worth considering.
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Tony K.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 7:56 pm Reply with quote
Ya' know what? Both of you are right on account of the awarding thing. It's not like I'm training a pet to do tricks.

Psycho 101 wrote:
I imagine if someone gets on moderation status 2-3 times or more for this they might need a vacation.

That degree of Moderation would probably stem from a lot more than just over-quoting which, at that point, will be up to admin to handle, since I don't have the power to outright ban.

Psyhco 101 wrote:
[Strike accumulation idea]



I'll just keep track of the strikes either adding/subtracting them and time-stamping them with dates.
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Alan45
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 8:16 pm Reply with quote
For this specific issue I think that part of the problem is the quote button in each post. It is just too easy, no effort, no thought just click it and it quotes the entire post. I suspect a lot of people just find deleting the un necessary lines to be too much work.

If I want to quote someone, I copy/past a single sentence or less and use the quote button in the formatting choices in the reply window. It is a bit more work but it keeps me from quoting more than necessary.

Someone who back slides every time a strike is removed knows exactly what they are doing. They are likely going to have issues with the rules beyond just over quoting.
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Redbeard 101
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:28 pm Reply with quote
Tony K. wrote:
Ya' know what? Both of you are right on account of the awarding thing. It's not like I'm training a pet to do tricks.


Exactly. Want your tea now Tony? Hey...wait a second....

Tony K. wrote:
That degree of Moderation would probably stem from a lot more than just over-quoting which, at that point, will be up to admin to handle, since I don't have the power to outright ban.

That was basically my line of thinking. Obviously no mods can pass a ban but if someone is put on moderation that many times then more than likely the admins are already aware of them for one reason or another.

Tony K. wrote:
Psyhco 101 wrote:
[Strike accumulation idea]



I'll just keep track of the strikes either adding/subtracting them and time-stamping them with dates.

So I actually had a good idea for once? Even a blind squirrel finds a nut eventually heh. Don't worry, I won't let it go to my head lol.


Alan45 wrote:

Someone who back slides every time a strike is removed knows exactly what they are doing. They are likely going to have issues with the rules beyond just over quoting.

Precisely what I was thinking and why I figured anyone who might end up in that boat probably already has alerted the admin to their presence for other reasons.
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Redbeard 101
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 4:58 pm Reply with quote
So I have another example to ask about. Just so I am clear on how this is treated. Suppose a user has a post where they quote 4-5+ people or specific points. They don't "over quote" in terms of amount per quote. The amount of quotes period is simply high. Not the quotes within the quotes. Quoteception as we'll call it. Example......


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

nbahn wrote:
^
Obviously, only a moderator can provide a definitive answer, but FWIW, I think that that what applies to moderation also applies to strikes.

My $0.02

I like beer

Greed1914 wrote:
That is why I'm asking for clarification. If I'm wondering about it, chances are others are, as well, so I'm hoping Tony K will pop in to clarify the point. Rules are fine, but they are even better when fully explained.

Beer is good

Alan45 wrote:
@Tony K.
Good behavior is its own reward. No seriously. When people post properly, we get enthusiastic but polite, easy to follow threads. No over quoting, not incivility, no inane lists and no personal attacks. That by its self should be reward enough.

I think what you are getting at is remission of penalties based on good behavior in an otherwise bad apple.

Whiskey is better

Tony K. wrote:
Ya' know what? Both of you are right on account of the awarding thing. It's not like I'm training a pet to do tricks.

My cat drinks whiskey, is that a trick?

Psycho 101 wrote:

Exactly. Want your tea now Tony? Hey...wait a second.....

I just quoted myself...wooooaaahhh...quoteception!!!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Would such a post be acceptable? Obviously my one liners are just fill ins for actual 2-3 sentences minimum and real discussion. Use your imagination. I just ask simply to make sure everyone is on the same page. Wouldn't want to report someone for such a post for no reason if it's ok. I personally feel it's ok as they are responding to specific points and giving direct discussion without "excessive quoteception". Assuming of course they are actual responses and not just 5-10 one liners.
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Touma



Joined: 29 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 5:10 pm Reply with quote
^ Psycho 101

I hope that your example is acceptable.
I believe that is the approved method for responding to several posts on the same subject, rather than having a different reply to each post.
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