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Alan45
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Joined: 25 Aug 2010
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Location: Virginia
PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2015 9:34 pm Reply with quote
@Psycho 101
You are probably correct about the clutter. I think part of what bothers me is the flat statement "No recommendation threads" coupled with the fact that there are limited recommendation threads.

Further, I have yet to see a request for recommendations that wasn't a first or second post. Most sound like teenagers and list as having watched only the most popular shows. I think they need help not chastisement. Yes they are being lazy but they are new and it is a really minor infraction.

I would probably welcome them to the forums and express a desire that they continue. I would tell them that it is not a big deal but we do not permit individual recommendation threads. Then I would point them at the available resources, basically the first post of "Anime Hunting" and suggest they look there. If, having tried those resources they are not satisfied. They should post in the anime hunting thread and state just what they are looking for (in some detail) that is not covered by available threads or search.

Rule 1c notes that new people ask questions. I would say from experience that most of those questions are technically against the rules. I also think that back seat moderating, especially with new people, is a much worse offense. Most of those people know better.
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Psycho 101
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 11:39 pm Reply with quote
Alan45 wrote:

I would probably welcome them to the forums and express a desire that they continue. I would tell them that it is not a big deal but we do not permit individual recommendation threads. Then I would point them at the available resources, basically the first post of "Anime Hunting" and suggest they look there. If, having tried those resources they are not satisfied. They should post in the anime hunting thread and state just what they are looking for (in some detail) that is not covered by available threads or search.

That was basically my sentiment and how I strive to handle such threads myself. I do lock them but if they are new I do my best to be polite and give them some links to helpful threads to help them find the answers (without outright giving it to them on a silver platter) they are looking for. Or at least where to go to properly ask for assistance.


Alan45 wrote:
Rule 1c notes that new people ask questions. I would say from experience that most of those questions are technically against the rules. I also think that back seat moderating, especially with new people, is a much worse offense. Most of those people know better.

Now this is something, in retrospect, I do think has become a bit of an issue. I know many users are trying to be helpful but in many of these circumstances the backseat moderating happens and then nothing is mentioned about it. I don't think we should throw the book at people in such circumstances, but I do think perhaps we should leave some gentle reminders that the rules do state if you know a thread is going to be locked don't post in it. Don't backseat moderate in particular. That's what us slave labor are for. Plus we don't want other users, or us mods, scaring off new people by blitzing them right out the gate.
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Alan45
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:39 am Reply with quote
Psycho 101 wrote:
Quote:
Plus we don't want other users, or us mods, scaring off new people by blitzing them right out the gate.


Which is what I was getting at.

I'll touch on this once more and then let it rest as I appear to be in the minority. Very Happy I think with both recommendation threads and speculation threads that they could be allowed a bit more lee way. I suggest that mods do what they have been doing, point the individual to the appropriate resources. However I would let the thread stay open. If a few individual want to respond (no bare lists allowed) we might actually get some conversation going. In any case, the request will retreat down the page and disappear.

I don't know what it was like years ago, but, except for the first couple of weeks of a new season, the anime forum can be really slow. On a given day in mid season only a half dozen active threads may be present, usually those shows that streamed the day before. Sometimes the only active threads are the contests. I really don't think recommendation threads will overwhelm the system. It might be worth a trial run.

I'm a bit more iffy on speculation. I suspect that most of the requestors are not up on the latest news and will be satisfied with a referral to the Encyclopedia and a statement that nothing more is known. I realize that any further posts in such a thread are an exercise in futility but that is hardly unknown on the forums. We do allow some speculation you know, occasionally one of the anime or manga publishers will put out hints about an upcoming announcement. When that happens speculation runs rampant. Again, I think most such threads will migrate into oblivion but they would require closer monitoring if they were allowed on a trial basis.

What I'm getting at is that having your first attempt to post immediately locked is likely to be a bit like an unexpected ice water challenge. I think in the past we have been a bit harsh with the newbies. I realize that for the moderators this is a bit like playing Wack-A-Mole as these posts spring up like dandelions, but it is almost always new moles.
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TsunaReborn!



Joined: 08 Sep 2012
Posts: 4713
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 9:12 am Reply with quote
The only problem I see is that if a long(er) standing mamber of the forum creates a recommendation thread that gets closed the mods won't have much of a leg to stand on because they have been letting new users get away with it.

Alan, I completely agree that new members can at times be treated harshly but the rules have to be enforced uniformly otherwise it creates too many contradictions opening the mods to "attacks" from other users regrding potencially unfair treatment.

Could the post not be moved to the recommendations thread with the new thread closed but a polite note, smiley face and link popped at the bottom explaining where it has been moved to and why, that way their question still stands a chance of being answered?
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st_owly
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:03 am Reply with quote
I think part of the reason individual recommendation threads became disallowed is that 99% of the people who make them then never or hardly ever post again, so it was felt that they were being ungrateful to everyone who took the time to answer their requests in detail.
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Alan45
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:31 am Reply with quote
@TsunaReborn!
With long standing members the rule about meaningful discussion has to prevail. In other words you can't just say you like a specific program and ask for recommendations. As a long standing member you would have to provide at least a paragraph as to what aspects of the show you liked and why. Something that would promote a discussion. Responders would be able to use that to explain why the show they are recommending has that element or why it is worthy in spite of the absence. Referring them to the anime thread is not a bad idea.

@st_owly
I wasn't here when recommendation threads were allowed so I can't comment on that. I do know that we have treated them rather harshly since I have been here. I would have been reluctant to post any more if it happened to me. I note that the moderators will often lock a thread if no follow up is made by the person who started the thread. That might help. Or better yet, move their request to the Anime Hunting thread just as is now done for "What is this anime?" threads.

I would say that anything that inspires detailed responses in recommendation is worth keeping.
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willag
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 9:51 pm Reply with quote
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willag
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 9:52 pm Reply with quote
Hi-dee-ho there, folks! Does the above look good? Do we wanna submit for consideration?
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nobahn
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 9:58 pm Reply with quote
^
FWIW, it looks good to me. Well done, williag!
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Psycho 101
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 10:25 pm Reply with quote
I say submit it and see what Zac and Chris say. We've all brainstormed on it and at the least we've got a good rough draft in case they have suggestions themselves.
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willag
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 10:54 pm Reply with quote
Submit where?
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Psycho 101
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 11:35 pm Reply with quote
Submit as in PM or email them a copy. Whatcha think I meant? Submit as in user a carrier pigeon? Laughing Wink
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Dan42
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 3:50 pm Reply with quote
I just finished reading everything and comparing with the current rules. Thank you everyone and in particular willag for your efforts in cleaning up the wording. And with the headers it's infinitely more readable.

One of the reasons to keep rules short was because they used to be shown upon registration and no one would read rules that were too long. But since ANN 5.0 registration is no longer handled by phpBB2, so new users don't even get that first glance at the rules.

Also we definitely need a single place where people can find an index of all the various rules, guidelines, policies, amendments and whatnot that get posted from time to time.

So here's what we're going to do: while keeping Teh Rules as succinct as we can, we're going to let them grow large enough to include a mention and a link to every single one of these little "side rules". And ideally we would add a link for every rule that doesn't yet have one, to allow for even more detail, corner cases, and discussion (for people who care about that level of detail). And when people post for the first time, we'll display a short version: only the header of each rule. That means the header must be able to stand alone as a one-line summary of the rule.

I'm going to post my own edit to willag's version, and then I encourage everyone to post about rules that have been posted (or just enforced) elsewhere but that don't appear in Teh Rules. For example about "the posting of several images in a single post" that triggered this entire thread.


PS: I agree with Alan45 that as long as the rule about meaningful discussion is respected, recommendation threads should be ok. And on a similar bent, if backseat moderating is done in a way that is welcoming the newbie, I think that's fine too. That being said, I'm not the one doing the moderating so I'm leaving the matter to the mods.
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Dan42
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 3:57 pm Reply with quote
Disclaimer: All posts made to these forums express the views and opinions of the author, not Anime News Network. Additionally, statements by Anime News Network staff on this forum are personal opinions and may not reflect the views of Anime News Network as a whole.


  1. Above all else: Be Polite
    1. Harassing, slanderous, threatening, dangerous or illegal material will be removed from the forum by moderators.
    2. Swearing is frowned upon.
    3. If you disagree with a poster, disagree respectfully, or do not disagree at all.
    4. Many people first come to our forum to ask questions on how or why. Please treat them with respect. Do not respond to questions from new visitors with sarcasm and/or hostility. If you are unable to provide a polite answer, then don't say anything at all.

  2. Post relevant, thoughtful responses; avoid lists and one-liners
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    2. Consider if what you are writing is relevant or important to others. If it does not contribute to the discussion, then do not post it.
    3. Please post detailed answers to questions; lists and one-liners do not contribute. A more in-depth discussion about listing and one-liners can be found here.

  3. Stay on topic
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  4. Use proper English
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  5. Do not excessively quote
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    3. No "Back Seat Moderating." If you know a thread is going to be locked, do not post in it. Do not berate posters for breaking the rules, that is the job of the ANN moderators and admins. Please report the post and, if you think it is necessary, contact a moderator or admin.
    4. What to do if you've been banned

  7. Commerce is disallowed outside of the designated areas
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    2. Commerce in the Retail Forum is limited to commercial websites only. Links to online auctions or a user's commercial endeavor are not permitted in the regular retail forum. Websites that sell items in violation of Rule #8 will be removed and their URLs banned.

  8. No bootlegs, fansubs, scanlations, etc.
    1. Users may not request or link to bootlegs, fansubs, scanlations, active fan-translating groups, peer-to-peer networks, timed scripts, MP3s, unauthorized movie clips, or websites that house these groups or products. Links to and discussions about websites that provide authorized, legal downloads are permitted.

  9. Use the search engine and read the site
    1. This should be obvious, but people regularly ask questions that have recently been covered in other forum threads or in ANN's articles. So before asking a question, put the keywords into the ANN search engine and the forum search engine. Checking the Encyclopedia may be a good idea too! (depending on your question).
    2. Do not make threads or posts that require speculation, like when an anime is going to get another season, license, dub, etc. Further discussion on speculations can be found here.

  10. No necroposting except where allowed
    1. Necroposting is the act of resurrecting very old threads. Threads in the Talkback Forums have 2 months of shelf life from the date of the latest forum post. All other threads have 12 months of shelf life from the date of the last post made.
    2. Exceptions to the necroposting rule include:
      Those threads do not time out. Further discussion on necroposting can be found here.

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nobahn
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 5:12 pm Reply with quote
^
Rule #1(d) has a [/size] tag at the end that should probably be deleted.
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