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NEWS: Yen Press Licenses Irregular at Magic High School Light Novels, Manga


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Chagen46



Joined: 27 Jun 2010
Posts: 4377
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 7:17 pm Reply with quote
Not even an official translation could make Mahouka bearable. Well, given that the fan translation was incredibly literal and stilted, it wont take much to surpass it.
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OH&S



Joined: 15 Jul 2013
Posts: 231
Location: Sydney, Australia
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 7:35 pm Reply with quote
ultimatemegax wrote:
<snip>


Thank you ultimatemegax for putting it so eloquently.

Index fans are technically in a worse boat. English releases may be coming out at a super fast rate of 4 novels per year but we're still 33 novels away from the latest release (over 10 years behind).

Suck it up, indeed.
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NeverSleep



Joined: 15 Dec 2010
Posts: 23
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 7:36 pm Reply with quote
ultimatemegax wrote:
Outside of the grammar mistake, what the opinions of fans like you do not understand are the behind-the-scenes issues of the actual process of publishing. Yen, like all the other publishers, have to play by retailers' rules in what they can release and when. Flood the market with a title like you suggest, and people don't buy it. Gradually introduce it from the start, and you get more people who haven't read it than the leeches who read fan-translations. There's also the benefit of having editors who know Japanese (the new editor for Yen On translates the Spice and Wolf novels and translated the Haruhi v6-v11 novels) as compared to putting your rough draft out for people to read.

Yen is trying to get novels out as fast as possible (Index is going out in 4 volumes a year, faster than any other novel and it's still not enough for some leeches). While you are buying them, I'd like to ask that you (and the other posters whining about release schedules) begin to consider something besides your own selfish desires before posting about how Yen's starting from v1 yet again.

I love how people are freely throwing terms like "leeches" in this thread, how much did you guys spend on anime and related stuff the last two years anyways? Just out of curiosity.

I'm complaining because I have the money, I would spend it like I did many times as soon as possible. The thing is that the material was already out, but now it won't be available and fans have to wait 5 years to read something I read 4 years ago? Of course I would buy everything for the sake of collecting the whole material and would re-read for amusement. For most of these fans it's just a waste of time, a huge delay where nothing can be done unless you seek the original Japanese version, which in Index and Mahouka case is extremely complex and dense to read with all the chuu2 jargon thrown around compared to romcom series with easier language.

Edit - Of course fans can continue the translations, the thing is that because we have the "hub" called Baka-Tsuki, no one takes up the spot and keep the works going like it happens with anime fansubbing and manga scanlation regardless of licensing because there is this kind of atmosphere where no one wants to take the spot and publish independently. There are smaller sites outside Baka-Tsuki but these are just isolated projects and most people don't even know about them.
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infamoustakai



Joined: 12 Jun 2014
Posts: 323
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:11 pm Reply with quote
Yen Press is on fire. I was absolutely ecstatic when they announced No Game No Life and The Devil Is A Part Timer novels. I hope they continue grabbing more *COUGH* HIGHSCHOOL DxD *COUGH*

OH&S wrote:
ultimatemegax wrote:
<snip>


Thank you ultimatemegax for putting it so eloquently.

Index fans are technically in a worse boat. English releases may be coming out at a super fast rate of 4 novels per year but we're still 33 novels away from the latest release (over 10 years behind).

Suck it up, indeed.


I'm still glad we're getting them nonetheless! I'm scared to think we'll never see another season, so I'm really happy we have something to fall back on at least.


Last edited by infamoustakai on Mon Mar 09, 2015 11:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
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bladerunner0



Joined: 09 Mar 2015
Posts: 5
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:34 pm Reply with quote
Dfens wrote:
Their is no excuse that it a bunch of fans can do a professional job in their spare time for free and can put out a professional level release that the actual licensor can't.

But this fantranslation is really poor and nowhere near a professional level. I always assumed English-speaking LN fans were willing to overlook the bad quality of prose by the fantranslation just so they can read the story.

Just to give you some examples:
Quote:
It was the day of the school entrance ceremony, but it was still early morning, two hours before the start of the ceremony.
or
Quote:
Standing before the auditorium where the entrance ceremony was going to take place, a man and woman pair, clad in brand new uniforms, was for some reason locked in a verbal disagreement.

How can anyone call the quality of these sentences on a professional level? These sentences feel like they are still rough draft and not edited.
I gladly wait a bit longer for translation which is not crazy stilted to read.
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NeverSleep



Joined: 15 Dec 2010
Posts: 23
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:51 pm Reply with quote
Because the professional are also great at adapting things:

My Teen Romantic Comedy SNAFU

Personally I find it to be even better when they "localize" stuff, like in a certain series of games made by Capcom.
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Spotlesseden



Joined: 09 Sep 2004
Posts: 3513
Location: earth
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:55 pm Reply with quote
Cyclone1993 wrote:


So you're angry that a company is legally translating and releasing a series into a language you can read and understand because you don't want to wait for the necessary work needing to be done on them?

No one is stopping you from just buying the Japanese imports and translating them yourself. I'm just glad that people in English speaking countries are going to be able to legally read the series in their own language. Quality can't be rushed.



not going to do anything for me unless they can release atleast 5 books a year until they catch up to Japan. 1 or 2 books a year is not going to cut it because Japan will releasing 3 books this year. I'm just going to read the fan translation and call it a day.

SAO vol 4 is still not out, it pissed me off. The problem is the translation is clear done, they just don't want to release it. a LN is very short, it doesn't take more than 6 month for translation and editing, ect.


I may still buy them all if after they translated all of them in 2025.
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NeverSleep



Joined: 15 Dec 2010
Posts: 23
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 9:21 pm Reply with quote
Spotlesseden wrote:
SAO vol 4 is still not out, it pissed me off. The problem is the translation is clear done, they just don't want to release it. a LN is very short, it doesn't take more than 6 month for translation and editing, ect.

It's not that they are not releasing it because they don't want to. It's probably somewhere in the contract they made with the original publisher, they can only release the volumes they have in the license contract at preset dates

The thing is we don't know if it Yen Press fault or Dengeki Bunko fault, I find it very unlikely to be Dengeki fault considering how anime is currently going on with Crunchyroll that keeps up pretty well with Japanese releases. So, the reason for Yen Press delaying the releases would be testing waters, they are afraid something and delaying it is safer in the long run, need less staff to deal with more series and so on.

But if the consumers don't cry and bitch about this enough nothing can be done (boycoting is a bad idea for a fragile market, a manga publisher here in Brazil didn't do very well because of a mobilization on facebook to boycott its works and almost ended up closing, a larger company would just sack the line of products for "not producing results")
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bladerunner0



Joined: 09 Mar 2015
Posts: 5
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 9:28 pm Reply with quote
NeverSleep wrote:
Because the professional are also great at adapting things:

My Teen Romantic Comedy SNAFU

Personally I find it to be even better when they "localize" stuff, like in a certain series of games made by Capcom.

I haven't seen OreGairu yet, so I have no ideo how the official translation is like. And you shouldn't use an ominous "they" as if every professional translater is the same person.

It's one thing to over-localize something, but something completely different to create bad sentences like the ones I mentioned. How can anyone read even one chapter of this fantranslation of Mahouka and not think it's bad.

Even if YenPress translates things like the techno jargon more liberal (which they probably won't), I'd be fine with it because I can at least read it fluently and have in fact a reading experience.
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OH&S



Joined: 15 Jul 2013
Posts: 231
Location: Sydney, Australia
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 9:48 pm Reply with quote
infamoustakai wrote:

I'm still glad we're getting them nonetheless! I'm scared to think we'll never see another season, so I'm really happy we have something to fall back on at least.


You and me both. I'm one of the fans who welcomes YP translations and am pleased with their release schedule which is as frequent as realistically possible in terms of marketing and sales strategy.
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lys



Joined: 24 Jun 2004
Posts: 933
Location: mitten-state
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 9:56 pm Reply with quote
Spotlesseden wrote:
not going to do anything for me unless they can release atleast 5 books a year until they catch up to Japan. 1 or 2 books a year is not going to cut it because Japan will releasing 3 books this year. I'm just going to read the fan translation and call it a day.

SAO vol 4 is still not out, it pissed me off. The problem is the translation is clear done, they just don't want to release it. a LN is very short, it doesn't take more than 6 month for translation and editing, ect.

What series are you referring to with "1 or 2 books a year"? I believe SAO volumes (and this goes for other series too) are released at least every four months (=3 per year) (actually the Progressive novels are being released at the same time? Both are scheduled for 2015, so there's your five books a year.)

Most professional translators works on several series, not just one at a time. And SAO alone involves two ongoing light novel series and four different manga adaptations, so it's not like the translator is sitting around twiddling his thumbs, or cackling over a hoard of unpublished translations in the meantime.

And as has been mentioned, bookstores don't want a flood of volumes of a single series—especially if they don't know how that series will sell, and whether it's wise to risk filling up (limited) shelf space with what could be a hit or a flop. (Most) buyers don't have the money to plunk down on half a dozen volumes of a single series at once, especially if they're following a number of other series, or haven't already read the series and don't know whether they'll like it or not. The publisher itself needs to sell early volumes to make money back on what they spend on licensing, translating, lettering, editing, printing, shipping so they can afford to make those later volumes. All this together, waiting for a volume every 3-4 month is completely reasonable. If you're impatient, find another series to entertain yourself with until the latest of your favourite is available.

I don't have much sympathy for people who read ahead (via fan translations) and then have to wait for legal translations to catch up. You chose to read the series that way. So did I once upon a time, and it ruined my anticipation for legal releases, so I stopped. If you don't like the wait, stop reading fan translations—or if you must, read only enough to determine whether you're interested in a series, and then wait for the legal release. That the main fan-translation hub for LNs makes a rule of removing content once licensed is how it should be, and probably a good part of WHY a publisher is willing to risk licensing already-translated content. By contrast, on the manga-side, series can be reasonable hits and widely requested from publishers by fans, but because scanlations are ubiquitous and are rarely if ever taken down after being licensed, publishers tend to ignore these requests and license lesser-known, not-previously-translated series instead. (yes, I am sad that some of my favourite series may not ever get a legal English release because the majority of them are already widely-distributed online.)

Sorry for the rant.
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NeverSleep



Joined: 15 Dec 2010
Posts: 23
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 9:58 pm Reply with quote
bladerunner0 wrote:
I haven't seen OreGairu yet, so I have no ideo how the official translation is like. And you shouldn't use an ominous "they" as if every professional translater is the same person.

It's one thing to over-localize something, but something completely different to create bad sentences like the ones I mentioned. How can anyone read even one chapter of this fantranslation of Mahouka and not think it's bad.

Even if YenPress translates things like the techno jargon more liberal (which they probably won't), I'd be fine with it because I can at least read it fluently and have in fact a reading experience.

Not every translator is the same, but they are very close when working "professionally", specially when working in a niche market. Source: me, translated for Crunchyroll Brazil for a while, we have to follow a lot of standards, and the TLC team will end making everything similar.

The two examples you gave are exactly how it was written in the original novel, even the commas, following the same order of the phrases, I don't find it too weird because I'm not a native speaker and the years got me used to this "weird" style used by the Japanese with short phrases and paragraphs. Anyways, both examples do not fail to convey what's happening, passable at least, just need some work from an editor, not a new translator.
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SteveUzumaki



Joined: 07 Jun 2014
Posts: 45
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 10:24 pm Reply with quote
All I have to say here is to those complaining it's taking too long for releases to come out, be glad that we're getting an official translation at all. Years ago, something like this was unheard of.

Translating takes some time, especially a good quality translation. I've personally been reading Yen's Index volume 1, and I have to say that they've done a fantastic job.

As someone who studies Japanese and who enjoys reading raw manga/light novels on occasion, some words and sentence structures in light novels can be flat out confusing to a non-native speaker of Japanese. That and light novels are also extremely guilty of giving kanji for something and giving a whole other meaning and pronunciation to said kanji. For example in Index, we have Accelerator. His name is written as "一方通行" normally pronounced "ippo tsuko" and means "one-way road", but is pronounced like "Accelerator" in English. Completely different meaning and pronunciation. And in Haruhi Suzumiya, you have Kyon giving his monologues in run-on sentences using complex kanji with no furigana for any different readings.

Going back to Mahouka, I'd say that Tatsuya's techobabble is difficult to translate without prior knowledge of the series. Having to translate all of that can take some time, especially finding just the right word to flow with the rest of the translation and turn it into a reading experience for us English speakers. And then there's all of the words and other things that get lost in translation, which also adds another hurdle to the mix.

That's all I have to say. Just figured I'd add in my two-cents. I'm by no means fluent in Japanese, but I feel as though I have enough of a grasp on the language to comment on the matter. In the end though, Yen is going to get my money for this release. They do a great job at what they do, and I'm willing to support their work.
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bladerunner0



Joined: 09 Mar 2015
Posts: 5
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 10:26 pm Reply with quote
NeverSleep wrote:
The two examples you gave are exactly how it was written in the original novel, even the commas, following the same order of the phrases, I don't find it too weird because I'm not a native speaker and the years got me used to this "weird" style used by the Japanese with short phrases and paragraphs. Anyways, both examples do not fail to convey what's happening, passable at least, just need some work from an editor, not a new translator.

I don't criticize the translation itself, but of course the editing. Just reread these sentences and try to tell me they don't sound really clunky:
Quote:
It was the day of the school entrance ceremony, but it was still early morning, two hours before the start of the ceremony.
Quote:
Standing before the auditorium where the entrance ceremony was going to take place, a man and woman pair, clad in brand new uniforms, was for some reason locked in a verbal disagreement.

Ok, I'll try to get my point across by editing them:
Quote:
Despite being the day of the school entrance ceremony, the early morning was still evident. It was roughly two hours before the ceremony's beginning.
Quote:
Standing before the auditorium, a man and a woman, both wearing brand new uniforms, were disputing an unknown manner.

Also, a certain amount of localization is always necessary. A translation should never be a word-by-word translation, but always be seen as a whole and for their specific market.
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NeverSleep



Joined: 15 Dec 2010
Posts: 23
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 11:02 pm Reply with quote
SteveUzumaki wrote:
All I have to say here is to those complaining it's taking too long for releases to come out, be glad that we're getting an official translation at all. Years ago, something like this was unheard of.

Years ago anime simulcast was also unheard of, we only had very sparse DVD releases. Being glad unconditionally isn't the case here, they are not doing us favors since we're paying for the content, you can be glad, for me it's just a hassle and I don't mind being vocal about this matter because I know they can do better, like Crunchyroll did.

bladerunner0 wrote:
snip

The first phrase came out weird because you added stuff, why adding the evident? It's just a simple statement that it was morning. Also, what if it was precisely two hours before? Why roughly? It isn't necessary to add this kind of thing, and the characters mentioned live in a very tight schedule because of security detail.

The second since you just said about the entrance ceremony, omitting this here is fine not repeating the same info. "were disputing an unknown manner" isn't okay, they were discussing something verbally known more commonly as "arguing" , it's very specific, the way you phrased it is just trying to pretty things up but at the same time make it ambiguous. And the fact they are just have a minor quarrel doesn't become clear until a few paragraphs later.
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