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INTEREST: American Animator in Japan Offers His Take on the Industry's Wages and Work Environment


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CoreSignal



Joined: 04 Sep 2014
Posts: 727
Location: California, USA
PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 1:31 am Reply with quote
Fronzel wrote:
I don't want to overstate but things like Steven Universe (for kids) and Rick & Morty or Venture Bros. (for adults) are branching out a little from comedy, even if they're classified as such and do have plenty of comic content.

Yeah, it's getting a little better, like with the shows you mentioned, and I'd also add Adventure Time, Avatar, and Korra.


leafy sea dragon wrote:
It's more that any attempt at making a non-comedic animated production aimed at adults falls flat on its face,
...
That they keep getting made means the problem is more due to culture and perception of animation as being either kids stuff or toilet humor for adults than the people actually making and greenlighting the programming.
...
In short, western animation does repeatedly try to branch out and do something different, but most of the time, the viewers say no.

I completely agree. People have tried and it's just that the average American/Western viewer doesn't want to watch that kind of show. And yeah, it's a cultural difference, more than anything. The idea of animation being strictly kid fare or comedy is so ingrained in American culture that the average American viewer finds it incomprehensible that animation could be something other than those two.
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eragon2890



Joined: 02 Sep 2009
Posts: 159
PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 7:16 am Reply with quote
Kaioshin_Sama wrote:
And people get a little more insight into why I find anime a lot more distasteful than I used to. It's why I really hate the production committee, uncompromising deadline oriented, commercialism fixated model the current industry follows. Not only does it stifle any sort of the creativity that saw anime's rise to prominence as a culturally significant and distinct format and style of expression for pretty much solely commercial endeavors, sometimes it's hard to accept what is quite often just a bunch of producers and robber barons making money off of the passion, interest and hard work of others while giving them empty wish fulfillment dreams and failing to train the next generation of creators and nurture there talents in any significant way. There's a lot that's really wrong with the current structure and outlook of anime and in many ways it just kills the enjoyment of it all.


Sure this is bad, and it needs to change, but it in no way whatsoever even for 1% will influence the fun I have watching anime.

I became an anime fan 6years ago (yeah late I know, I am 23 now), and I haven't really watched much live acion since. I go to all the cons and cosplay. All my friends are in the subculture, so my entire social life is in it as well. And it's just a ton of fun! cons are great, and I just love anime. All sorts: sci-fi, mecha, fantasy, etc. I love everything from funny harem shows and cute moeblobs to cool action sci-fi. there are lots of great shows coming out which are great to watch, and places like crunchyroll make them all legally available for not that much money in HD. I LOVE crunchyroll :3

And I love the fact that it's becoming only more popular, at lesat in my country, where we went from 3 cons per year ( it's the nethrlands) in 2008 to 9 or 10 this year, theyŕe all fun, a few last 2 or 3 days, and the biggest one has over 6000 visitors in this small country! There is also a permanent manga library where I like to hang out every friday after university, and a number of anime fanclubs. And cosplay meets, etc. It's really become very popular and shows absolutely no sign of stopping anytime soon.

which is great. More cute/funny/cool anime, more cons, more cosplay ( I LOVE cosplaying!) and I love to be a part of it all. I REALLY don't see me becoming any less of an otaku anytime soon. Very Happy

And offcourse with all of the fans in the USA and europe (and less we forget, elsewhere too) and hte fact that cons are attracting more and more visitors every year, it will only get bigger and more fun in the years to come :3
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Drac



Joined: 08 Apr 2005
Posts: 165
PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 2:13 am Reply with quote
Japanese animators still have it way better then factory workers who make our clothes and electronic devices or the people who gather our food from the fields. People saying they dislike"Anime" now seems a tad melodramatic for an issue that goes beyond the art itself. Being an animator has never been easy no matter which country you're in.

The USA has had a long history of commercial animation and comics being made under stressful circumstances that aren't kind to the actual artists. Unions were formed but that created rifts in the animation industry that eventually led to all the animation being outsourced to other countries or to other States that are Non-Union. What little animation is made here is still hellish just ask anyone at Pixar or any female artist too afraid to speak up about sexual harassment. The comics industry is also bad when it comes to paying their freelance artists livable wages and the video game industry makes their employees work extremely long shifts.

If you hate Anime then I'm sure you hate all the things above too. Throwing around terms like Slavery is uncalled for and demeans actual people who have been forced into it against their will.
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mdo7



Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 6253
Location: Katy, Texas, USA
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:08 pm Reply with quote
I'm sorry if I bumped this but this is very relevent and I think you guys need to know this. I was looking around on ANN and saw this thread from 2010 (please don't necropost BTW, we need this as a source). This led me to some old blog posts like this one and this one which seem to predate this article by 7 or 8 years. So looks like the gruesome environment in anime studio seem to existed prior to this article.

I'll quote this:

Quote:
"In any country other than Japan, animators are on the regular payroll as full employees, with full salary and benefits. It used to be that way in Japan, too... But ever since Tezuka Osamu employed what could be called an 'abnormal' work system to produce Tetsuwan Atom (1963), animator salaries have collapsed, the animators were demoted from full employees to contractors, and they became poorer in the process. Animators have a special set of skills; they are craftsmen. So why are the salaries of these crafstmen on par with what you would pay a high-school kid working at a convenience store? Animators in other countres aren't poor. In America and Europe, they are paid according to their skills. Japanese animators should be paid based on the Labor Standards Act in a manner commesurate with their skills. And if you ask me, Japan deserves to lose its poor animators, so it can only have ten anime a week instead of the hundred or so currently produced. Even TEN a week is a lot by European or American standards!"

If the average citizen knew that the animators who support the highly respected art of 'Japanimation' were forced to live in extreme poverty at 50,000 yen a month ($500), television stations, advertising agencies, and publishers would be forced to change the way they do business, and animators.... would be hired as full employees and have stable lifestyles. ....Animators in their 20s and 30s are quitting in droves."

Japanimation' may have been raised to divine status as a medium but the animators labor under conditions worse than those faced by slaves prior to the Civil War.

Twenty years ago, an animator's salary was 25,000 yen... Now a new "in-betweener" gets paid about 30,000 yen. Animators and colorists basically work on a commission. A key animator gets paid by the cut; an in-betweener by the cel drawn; a colorist by the cel painted... Low compensation, long hours, no overtime, no pension, no insurance, and no days off are the norm. This is a total violation of the Labor Standards Act. We Japanese are attempting to sell ourselves as having a cutting edge content production industry, but that's nonsense spouted by people who don't know the workplace.


After reading these articles from late 2000's, this makes me feel more sad because it's been going on for many years.

EDIT: I also want to add this: anybody remember this 2008 article. I'll quote:

ANN wrote:
The Japan Animation Creators Association (JAniCA) have set itself up as an unlimited liability intermediary corporation this week to continue its efforts in improving work conditions in the Japanese animation industry. JAniCA was established last October to address the long working hours and low wages of many animators and directors. Becoming a legal corporation was necessary to hold negotiations with the national government and related entities, as well as to receive financial support. Eventually, JAniCA plans to become a general corporation.

90% of the animators and directors are freelancers, and those who have trouble making ends meet are expected to face increasing hardships as they grow older. In particular, there are veteran creators in their 40s and 50s who are getting by on 3 million yen (about US$30,000) a year. JAniCA plans to survey the current living conditions of animators for a database in this field of study, and to push initiatives to raise the quality of anime as well.


Well sound like those promises never came true. Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad
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enurtsol



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 14761
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:50 pm Reply with quote
A new article:

Leveraging English teaching to get into the anime industry

  • Thurlow’s path to Japan began when he met Hideyuki Kikuchi and Kevin Leahy, the original author of “Vampire Hunter D” and English translator respectively, during New York Anime Fest in September 2008.

    When work completed on the first season of “Superjail!,” an American animated television series that Thurlow worked on at Augenblick Studios, he left the U.S in July 2009 and took up an English teaching position in Japan.


    Besides the tough work hours, often consisting of six-day workweeks of 10-hour days, Thurlow has had to adjust to how different the work culture is compared to the U.S.

    “I keep suggesting to people that they should really have ‘lives’ outside of work, or at very least we should all eat lunch together and go out some Saturday nights,” he says. “It is incredibly important for artists to live their own lives and have their own experiences, and have strong opinions on politics, relationships, humanity, etc., which they can then use as influences in their artwork.”

    However, so far he has found his words have fallen on deaf ears, and instead some people interpret his advice as “excuses to try to get out of work.”

    “From my experience, the anime industry is filled with people who already think ‘Japanese animation’ is perfect, and that drawing in different styles and breaking outside of the ‘already perfect’ mold is completely unnecessary,” Thurlow says. “I hope that changes, but I have very little faith at this point that it will.”


    The Immigration Bureau of Japan has often been reluctant to give a work visa to non-Japanese animators, since it is not a role that requires any particular overseas specialisation or knowledge. [Ed: dunno what it says how low animators are in the totem pole that it's a role that does not "require specialization or knowledge." Shocked ]

    Thurlow admits obtaining an Artist visa is “nearly impossible,” so he will be extending the Specialist in Humanities/International Services visa he was granted as an English teachers.
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