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EricJ2



Joined: 01 Feb 2014
Posts: 4016
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:13 pm Reply with quote
mdo7 wrote:
Yes, I know and I think Ranma 1/2 can appeal to a newer generation because of it's storyline and it's novelty. The interesting question is: Why do some old school anime like Ranma 1/2 and Sailor Moon can appeal to a new generation of US/international anime fans when Mobile Suit Gundam 1979 and Urusei Yatsura can't?


Gundam is ultra-core mecha niche, without the quirkiness of Patlabor, or the naive optimism of Macross.
It's for people who want their robots, or at least build the models, but it doesn't welcome new casual crossover fans in as easily as the other two.

And UY just didn't have the exposure, since it was sales only, streaming didn't exist, rental barely existed, AnimEigo's titles rarely got out onto the mainstream shelves (which was one reason everyone "remembers" Ranma getting the US hooked on anime comedy, when the US college club fans were already famous for being Lum addicts)--You could find disks on mail-Netflix, but that's assuming you'd heard of the show. And if it wasn't for CPM getting their hands on the Beautiful Dreamer dub and showing it on Sci-Fi Channel, not too many people would have. (I'm not sure whether to punch the next fan who says he first found out about Lum from Matthew Sweet's music videos, or just be grateful.)
That's the problem of still working out of a garage when the rest of the industry is working out of a corporate office. And Woodhead says he's still "got something in the works?--Bob, I was there at the beginning, and please tell us you don't have UY, just to be stubbornly nostalgic about it. Your attempt to stay in anime gives "zombie companies" a bad name. Mad

And even for those who were curious....oh, good lord, that first season. Yes. Don't look at us: We know it stinks. Our hands are tied. Even Oshii hated it, that's how the series improved by learning to wander off the manga stories. We've spent twenty years doing damage control from fans who looked at the shrill, obnoxious, sexist, half-written, crayon-drawn first two dozen episodes taken verbatim from Rumiko's manga stories and said "What's the big deal? I give up!", and we've continued to fight the quixotic quest to tell them IT. GETS. BETTER. (I've always recommended skipping the first season entirely, jumping directly from the first-episode race to the Spring Special with the plot recap and the ninja school-trip episode, and then skip forward eight episodes to the second-season "good-Lum" reboot where she enrolls at the school. You won't miss much.)
I have a feeling our job will never be done, but this was one of the advantages of boxsets--Even when AnimEigo redipped the show on disk, they got through the entire first season on one five-disk box, and it was quick, painless and over, like pulling a Band-Aid. Razz Viz could do it in three.
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PurpleWarrior13



Joined: 05 Sep 2009
Posts: 1881
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 8:29 pm Reply with quote
mdo7 wrote:
Unless the Japanese production committee announce it, then it could happen (which I hope it could happen in the future). I'm keeping my finger cross for it to happen. I mean Ranma 1/2 came out before HD happen so if Ranma 1/2 can get a HD remaster, then so can Inuyasha.


Big difference. Ranma was animated onto FILM, which can be RE-SCANNED and re-shown at proper HD resolutions (2k, 4k, etc). InuYasha was partially animated onto film, and would benefit from an HD remaster the same way. However after episode 98, the show was animated DIGITALLY at a low standard-definition native resolution (I'm guessing 480p). There's no possible way those episodes can be shown in HD without an upscale (which might look horrible as it often does), or are reanimated (that won't happen). There are digital SD anime on Blu-ray, but only shorter series. There's no way an upscale would be worth it for such a long show.

mdo7 wrote:
Yes, I know and I think Ranma 1/2 can appeal to a newer generation because of it's storyline and it's novelty. The interesting question is: Why do some old school anime like Ranma 1/2 and Sailor Moon can appeal to a new generation of US/international anime fans when Mobile Suit Gundam 1979 and Urusei Yatsura can't? So it seem like any anime made in 1970's and early 80's don't appeal to current new generation anime fans in the US, but anything from mid 80's to 90's are able to do this? You see where I'm getting at Purplewarrior13?
Confused


If they were actually popular here when they were new, they might have a chance. Both Ranma and Sailor Moon were popular here when they were still new and relevant. However, it's basically impossible (or highly unlikely) for old shows like UY that were NEVER popular here to take off and suddenly reach high levels of fame and relevancy, enough to support a 200-episode Blu-ray release. Sure it might attract some new audiences, but probably not very many. Sailor Moon is it's own animal, but I would still bet that most sales for it and Ranma are from people that were fans before. Also Sailor Moon has Crystal currently running.

EricJ2 wrote:
Gundam is ultra-core mecha niche, without the quirkiness of Patlabor, or the naive optimism of Macross.


Oh Gundam is far more mainstream in the US than Patlabor and Macross, especially Patlabor, though that's not saying much. Gundam Wing was a huge hit here 15 years ago. Just because the original Gundam bombed (did Sunrise really think a 1979 anime would be a hit in 2001?), doesn't mean the whole franchise is niche.
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FLCLGainax



Joined: 10 May 2010
Posts: 652
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 8:44 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
You could find disks on mail-Netflix, but that's assuming you'd heard of the show. And if it wasn't for CPM getting their hands on the Beautiful Dreamer dub and showing it on Sci-Fi Channel, not too many people would have.
Back when Urusei Yatsura was still in print, I remember having to ask CSRs at Best Buy for the individual movie titles because the show title would just throw them off.
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mdo7



Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 5978
Location: Cypress, Texas, USA
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:01 pm Reply with quote
EricJ2 wrote:

Gundam is ultra-core mecha niche, without the quirkiness of Patlabor, or the naive optimism of Macross.


Did you forget Gundam Wings. That was the Gundam that became mainstream in the US. Many people thought the 1979 Mobile Suit Gundam would get popular like Wings because it has Gundam. Turns out this wasn't the case. So yeah. Rolling Eyes


PurpleWarrior13 wrote:
mdo7 wrote:
Unless the Japanese production committee announce it, then it could happen (which I hope it could happen in the future). I'm keeping my finger cross for it to happen. I mean Ranma 1/2 came out before HD happen so if Ranma 1/2 can get a HD remaster, then so can Inuyasha.


Big difference. Ranma was animated onto FILM, which can be RE-SCANNED and re-shown at proper HD resolutions (2k, 4k, etc). InuYasha was partially animated onto film, and would benefit from an HD remaster the same way. However after episode 98, the show was animated DIGITALLY at a low standard-definition native resolution (I'm guessing 480p). There's no possible way those episodes can be shown in HD without an upscale (which might look horrible as it often does), or are reanimated (that won't happen). There are digital SD anime on Blu-ray, but only shorter series. There's no way an upscale would be worth it for such a long show.


I see. So there's no way for post episode 98 Inuyasha to get a HD remaster. Yes, I will agreed hand drawn animation doesn't look any different with HD upscale. As a matter of fact, any hand drawn animation that are not CG won't look any good in HD. When I watch animation in SD and HD, there's not much different in my opinion.

you also wrote:
If they were actually popular here when they were new, they might have a chance. Both Ranma and Sailor Moon were popular here when they were still new and relevant. However, it's basically impossible (or highly unlikely) for old shows like UY that were NEVER popular here to take off and suddenly reach high levels of fame and relevancy, enough to support a 200-episode Blu-ray release. Sure it might attract some new audiences, but probably not very many. Sailor Moon is it's own animal, but I would still bet that most sales for it and Ranma are from people that were fans before. Also Sailor Moon has Crystal currently running.


I also agreed, if Mobile Suit Gundam had been shown in the early 80's in the US, it might have made a difference or if Carl Mercek had use Gundam instead of Macross for Robotech it could've been different. Despite Gundam Wings popularity, it didn't help any of the UC Gundam series (except 08 MS team) to replicate the same level of popularity like Wings. If Urusei Yatsura had been shown in the 80's, then I agreed it could've been different outcome.

As I said, there are new fans (I think teenage fans) of Sailor Moon I'm seeing these day. My 15 year old cousin know some friends in her high school that are fans (or even know) Sailor Moon and her friends were born during or after Sailor Moon US mainstream popularity. I was kinda surprised to see even a 15 years old that even know Sailor Moon despite being born after the Sailor Moon boom. Another cousin of mine, she's in elementary school and I was surprised to know she know who's Inuyasha is and she was born during the time Inuyasha was running on Adult Swim the early day. So looks like even young kids as young as 10 are even knowing or aware of the anime we watch in early 2000's.

Disclaimer: I'm 27 year old and I know Sailor Moon because it was popular when I was in elementary school in the late 90's. My cousin was born around the same time Sailor Moon was popular and when I was in elementary school. So it was surprising that she and her friends know who Sailor Moon is. I didn't ask her about Ranma 1/2, so the next time I see her I'll ask her if she know or heard of Ranma 1/2 (I'll ask if her friends know Ranma 1/2).
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Bagheera



Joined: 12 Sep 2014
Posts: 19
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:10 pm Reply with quote
mdo7 wrote:
lem wrote:

The legal streaming thing makes sense but I disagree that a release here would be "pointless"

certainly you can be of an opinion that it may or may not sell but at the end of the day you seriously don't have a f$##[email protected] clue about what will or won't sell in R1. In other words, as just another fan, you know as much as I do about it.

That said there's already a blu-ray release of UY. For the entire series, the OVA's and the Movies.

Maison Ikkoku is also available on blu. As is Yawara!

And Thanks to excellent work by TRSI and others like Discotek & Animesols, fans in R1 have seen some older titles made available on a disc for the first time here.

So who's to say whether or not UY will ever find its way to newer fans? For all we know those JP blu's may just sell well enough to be given consideration in another market.

Of course I will be double dipping and pre-ordering when it does. And no I don't expect it will happen by next week. But I'm in this for the long haul so I'm okay with any wait.

Just like I already have for so many other shows.


I understand where you're coming from on this. But I want the show to be streamed on CR, Hulu, Netflix first to see how the market in the US is like for the show. If it gets enough positive reception and demand is high enough then you can release the blu-ray collection in the US. If you release the blu-ray in the US first without seeing the fanbases and the sales was low, that would be a bad idea. So that's why I want the show to be stream first, to see how many newcomers would find this show appealing, then a US companies can decide to release the blu-ray (for shows, OVAs, etc...).

Alan45 wrote:
@mdo7
Just for your information: Bolding a large portion of your post is akin to shouting. It doesn't make your argument stronger or your statement more authoritative.


Not to go off topic, but I use it all the time and nobody complain to me about it. As a matter of fact, people seem to understand me more and take my evidence seriously when I bold my sentences. I know this because I did it on other forum and nobody complain about it.



Last year at comic con I asked Char if there were any plans to stream Maison and she said that Ranma would need to do really well on Hulu for them to consider it. So tune your Roku to Ranma and let it play non stop.
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mdo7



Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 5978
Location: Cypress, Texas, USA
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:16 pm Reply with quote
Popcorn Samurai wrote:

Last year at comic con I asked Char if there were any plans to stream Maison and she said that Ranma would need to do really well on Hulu for them to consider it. So tune your Roku to Ranma and let it play non stop.


Oh, that's kinda cool to hear. OK, I don't have Roku but I can watch Ranma 1/2 on Hulu to help Viz to get Maison, and hopefully Urusei Yatsura (Hey, can a person dream).
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Tenchi



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 4324
Location: Ottawa... now I'm an ex-Anglo Montrealer.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 12:07 am Reply with quote
EricJ2 wrote:

And even for those who were curious....oh, good lord, that first season. Yes. Don't look at us: We know it stinks. Our hands are tied. Even Oshii hated it, that's how the series improved by learning to wander off the manga stories.


I don't know which personal factoid would aggravate you more: that my favourite Urusei Yatsura episode is episode 10, "Pitter Patter Christmas Eve", a first season episode, or that I did indeed first become aware of Urusei Yatsura because of the Matthew Sweet "I've Been Waiting" music video, not even knowing what the series was called or what Lum's name was until I spotted a mini-preview of the Japanese Urusei Yatsura Sega Mega Drive Mega CD game in a videogame magazine.
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EricJ2



Joined: 01 Feb 2014
Posts: 4016
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 8:13 am Reply with quote
Tenchi wrote:
EricJ2 wrote:

And even for those who were curious....oh, good lord, that first season. Yes. Don't look at us: We know it stinks. Our hands are tied. Even Oshii hated it, that's how the series improved by learning to wander off the manga stories.


I don't know which personal factoid would aggravate you more: that my favourite Urusei Yatsura episode is episode 10, "Pitter Patter Christmas Eve", a first season episode, or that I did indeed first become aware of Urusei Yatsura because of the Matthew Sweet "I've Been Waiting" music video, not even knowing what the series was called or what Lum's name was until I spotted a mini-preview of the Japanese Urusei Yatsura Sega Mega Drive Mega CD game in a videogame magazine.


If you must know, it's people who say "But the Christmas episode was good!" that aggravates me more.
Yes, it's the only episode in the first season where we get a taste of the future relationship that Lum really does like Ataru, that Ataru really does like Lum, and that deep down he's not such a bad guy after all despite his dreams of being the ultimate lech. In other words, you like it because it's the only first-season episode that resembles the later ones, and then use it to spare the rod on the entire first season's mistakes from the Takahashi stories.
(Me, out of the first season, I always liked the school parents-day episode, where the show stayed off of "lecherous loser" Ataru long enough to give the supporting ensemble characters a chance, and hinted at the show's formal stylized silliness, but they didn't even have Onsen-mark as the teacher back then.)

Basically, Rumiko's early stories would just end with one big panoramic panel of "Waah! It's UTTER CHAOS!", and the first-season mini-episodes, slavishly following suit, would have to end on that same note, without actually ending on any sort of, y'know, punchline, or anything. Even Rumiko in the manga eventually learned to like Lum and stop androphobically beating up on Ataru, so it took a while for both Takahashi and Oshii to work out the bugs.


Last edited by EricJ2 on Mon Mar 30, 2015 1:28 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Touma



Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 2651
Location: Colorado, USA
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:49 am Reply with quote
EricJ2 wrote:
AnimEigo's titles rarely got out onto the mainstream shelves

My first exposure to anime was the Bubblegum Crisis tapes that I rented from Blockbuster Video.
I think that I bought Urusei Yatsura and You're Under Arrest from Media Play, which is where I got at least half of my anime back then. Most of the rest came from Best Buy, with a bit from Circuit City.
Way back then I was buying almost all of my anime from mainstream shelves, and I had no trouble getting AnimEigo titles.

Quote:
....oh, good lord, that first season. Yes. Don't look at us: We know it stinks.

For me the first season of Urusei Yatsura was the best. It went downhill from there.

Quote:
... that's how the series improved by learning to wander off the manga stories.

I was not aware that it got away from the manga. Maybe that is why I do not like it as much.
They should have stayed with Rumiko Takahashi's writing, instead of just borrowing her characters.

I will admit that I gave up on the TV series about half way through, so maybe it would have gotten better for me if I had stuck with it.
I did watch all of the OVA episodes and movies, with mixed results. I liked most of the OVA episodes but did not care much for the movies.
For me the low point of the entire Urusei Yatsura franchise was the Beautiful Dreamer movie. If I had seen that first I probably would have never watched anything else.

It all comes back to that "personal taste" thing, again.
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Tenchi



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
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Location: Ottawa... now I'm an ex-Anglo Montrealer.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 6:06 pm Reply with quote
I'm with the people who mainly care about the first year or two of Urusei Yatsura too. The animation is a very rudimentary compared to even mid-1980s UY but I rather like it "rough", heh.

I will concede that I do prefer the early episodes like the Christmas Eve episode that are full-length "half-hour" format to the early episodes that have two shorter segments, though.

How are we defining "first season" anyway? The whole first year, the first half-year, or even just the first 12-or-so episodes (i.e. roughly the same length as a current "cour", not that TV anime were split up that way back in the 1980s)?
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Touma



Joined: 29 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 6:42 pm Reply with quote
Tenchi wrote:
How are we defining "first season" anyway?

Good question.
I am being very non-specific.
When I said that I liked the first season of Urusei Yatsura best I really just meant that I liked it better in the beginning than I did later on. But I really cannot pin it down to particular episodes.

I just checked and the last that I watched was volume 25 of the AnimEigo singles, which would have been about episode 100. But I was loosing interest in it long before that.

I definitely cannot point to where it stopped being "good" and started getting "bad." Actually I never thought that any of it was bad. It just got less entertaining.
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EricJ2



Joined: 01 Feb 2014
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 6:43 pm Reply with quote
Tenchi wrote:
How are we defining "first season" anyway? The whole first year, the first half-year, or even just the first 12-or-so episodes (i.e. roughly the same length as a current "cour", not that TV anime were split up that way back in the 1980s)?


After the two mini-stories of Ep. 21 ("Ataru vs. Ataru"/"Wake Up to a Nightmare") the first season ended with the off-series Spring Special, which had a half-hour clip recap of the first season, and then the half hour "School Trip" episode (where they meet the girl ninjas).
The next regular episode after that, presumably the start of the "second season", was the "Great Space Matchmaking" episode (where Lum's dad holds her engagement party), which not only went to the half-hour one-story format, but also retconned Lum now as the cute sympathetic main character, and Ataru grudgingly coming to her rescue.

While Rumiko may have been changing the manga to audience tastes, in terms of the TV series, there's no bigger Mason-Dixon line you can draw between the two seasons, at where Oshii's crew started to take over and use a little more creativity on their own.
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Hameyadea



Joined: 23 Jun 2014
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 7:32 pm Reply with quote
Tenchi wrote:
How are we defining "first season" anyway? The whole first year, the first half-year, or even just the first 12-or-so episodes (i.e. roughly the same length as a current "cour", not that TV anime were split up that way back in the 1980s)?


Usually, each time when a show goes off the air it counts as a season, and when it returns it is considered as the next season, unless stated otherwise from the creators.

  • A typical format for regular-sized shows (on-air 6 months or less): Code Geass: Hangyaku no Lelouch & Code Geass: Hangyaku no Lelouch R2; Ōkami to Kōshinryō & Ōkami to Kōshinryō II;

  • A typical format, with significant difference in episode numbers in each season: Ōkiku Furikabutte (25 eps.) & Ōkiku Furikabutte ~Natsu no Taikai-hen~ (13 eps.); Darker than Black -Kuro no Keiyakusha- (25 eps.) & Darker than Black -Ryūsei no Gemini- (12 eps.). It also works in reverse: K-On! (13 eps.) & K-On!! (26 eps.);

  • Long shows: Gintama (201 eps.), Gintama' (51 eps.), Gintama': Enchōsen (13 eps.) & Gintama° (not yet aired, ep. count unknown); Daiya no Ace (75 eps.) & Daiya no Ace ~Second Season~ (not yet aired, ep. count unknown);

  • A single season despite non-consecutive airing: Aldnoah.Zero (eps. #1-12, July-September 2014; eps. #13-24, January-March 2015); Fate/Zero (eps. #1-13, October-December 2011; eps. #14-25, April-June 2012); and

  • Multiple seasons despite consecutive airing: Shikabane Hime: Aka (October-December 2008) & Shikabane Hime: Kuro (January-March 2009).


So as a rule of thumb, when there's a break of a cour (quarter-of-a-year) or longer in the airing, that counts as the end of a season.
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Alan45
Village Elder



Joined: 25 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 8:14 pm Reply with quote
@Hameyadea
Yes, but we are talking about Urusei Yatsura. Between Ocober 1981 and March 1985 it had only one break longer than 2 weeks. Most of the weeks where episodes did not run were consistent with holidays or other times when special programming might interfere. Most sources refer to it as running continuously, which for practical purposes it did.

Ranma 1/2 and Inu Yasha show the same pattern. I'm still trying to figure out how Viz decided the season breaks for Inu Yasha. I suspect many of the long running shows are similar. This business of one cour seasons with a single cour break is very recent.

For UY I count 18 one week breaks, 5 two week breaks and one of three weeks during the entire run.
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Tenchi



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
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Location: Ottawa... now I'm an ex-Anglo Montrealer.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:02 pm Reply with quote
Okay, if "second season" translates roughly to "the second AnimEigo Urusei Yatsura TV series DVD collection (volumes 6 to 10)", then, yeah, I prefer the second season to the first season overall but "Pitter Patter Christmas Eve" is still my favourite episode.
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