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Answerman - Funny Story About That Simulcast...


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enurtsol



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 14761
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 10:54 pm Reply with quote
PurpleWarrior13 wrote:

Of course doing voices for hentai and ecchi means you don't want your name associated with porn, which is understandable, especially if you're also working in children's entertainment. Heck, some even do this because it might jeopardize their non-entertainment jobs. It's understandable.


There's a renowned story that Kikuko Inoue (Belldandy) held up further release of hentai Ogenki Clinic for years because she regretted being part of it.

  • The next question stepped into one of the less illustrious roles in Inoue's career: a part in the hentai anime Ogenki Clinic. When asked how the hentai voice acting experience compares to normal voice acting, Inoue admitted that she took the role since her agency told her the job would "be an experience that would give me breadth in roles." "I feel like I was tricked into it," says Inoue, who added that the hentai title isn't listed in the profile released by her agency.



Hameyadea wrote:

Zorro is the Spanish name of the male Vulpes vulpes (Red Fox), Zorra for the vixen. Unless Disney can trademark a Spanish word used to describe a species, I don't think that there's a copyright issue based on the name.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zorro#Copyright_and_trademark_disputes

In convoluted matters such as copyrights and trademarks, it doesn't matter what people think. What matters is if ya think your lawyers can beat the other lawyers in court. Laughing
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omiya



Joined: 21 Sep 2011
Posts: 1826
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 12:10 am Reply with quote
TrailOfDead wrote:
song lyrics maybe


If a song is used for an anime (particularly in the case of songs by anime-specific labels like King/Star Child/Lantis/Flying Dog/5pb), licensing of it for overseas markets including lyrics for subtitles should be automatic and not an all-to-often neglected afterthought.

As someone else mentioned, some things can be translated/rights secured in advance and OP/ED/INS songs are written and recorded well before they are used in an anime, often on anime-specific labels.

Leaving off OP/ED/INS song lyrics on official subs leaves one short changed on release that claims to include English subtitles.
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Panzer Vor



Joined: 04 Dec 2012
Posts: 648
PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 1:52 am Reply with quote
I find it rather telling that the TV Tropes page on unions in Hollywood specifically mentions the impact Global Rule One has had on anime dubbing (before condemning Global Rule One as the primary reason why SAG members tend to be underemployed in the first place):

Quote:
SAG is quite well known for their controversial "Global Rule One," which bars their members from working in non-union environments. This made it especially difficult for voice actors who had entered the voice acting business through anime (like Steve Blum and Crispin Freeman) to reprise some of their old roles, as most anime dubbing projects are considered non-union. Needless to say, the Global Rule One is one of the main reasons that there is limited work for their members and some of them even had to work in non-union shops under a pseudonym to work around this rule.

There is an out, however. Under current US labor law (not just Hollywood unions) an individual can claim "financial core" status. This requires the individual to pay union dues, and allows them full union protection on union jobs, but does not obligate them to honor the union's bylaws (such as the aforementioned "Global Rule One"). Mentioning this to a SAG diehard however is a bad idea, and they've routinely put out notices about how "fi-core" will eventually be the end of organized labor as we know it.
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Hameyadea



Joined: 23 Jun 2014
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 2:16 am Reply with quote
enurtsol wrote:
Hameyadea wrote:

Zorro is the Spanish name of the male Vulpes vulpes (Red Fox), Zorra for the vixen. Unless Disney can trademark a Spanish word used to describe a species, I don't think that there's a copyright issue based on the name.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zorro#Copyright_and_trademark_disputes

In convoluted matters such as copyrights and trademarks, it doesn't matter what people think. What matters is if ya think your lawyers can beat the other lawyers in court. Laughing

I already posted about the history of the copyright issue, including a 2001 court ruling.
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Zalis116
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Joined: 31 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 5:06 am Reply with quote
configspace wrote:
They use the same tools such as Aegisub, x264 and others. Internal container format for CR's webplayer, is similar to Matroska, for they too need soft subs for multiple language tracks and typesetting capabilities. In fact Google's WebM format is based on MKV.
If so, they must've forgotten about the Timing Post-Processor, since CR's subs are always full of timing flashes, scene bleeds, and similar errors that no self-respecting fansubber would let slide.

omiya wrote:
If a song is used for an anime (particularly in the case of songs by anime-specific labels like King/Star Child/Lantis/Flying Dog/5pb), licensing of it for overseas markets including lyrics for subtitles should be automatic and not an all-too-often neglected afterthought.

As someone else mentioned, some things can be translated/rights secured in advance and OP/ED/INS songs are written and recorded well before they are used in an anime, often on anime-specific labels.

Leaving off OP/ED/INS song lyrics on official subs leaves one short changed on release that claims to include English subtitles.
A lot of the time, songs are unrelated J-Pop/J-Rock that whatever music company on the production committee is trying to promote. And as some past Answerman columns have revealed, there's all kinds of translation approval hurdles from music companies and the actual lyrics writers. So I can understand how they can't cut through the red tape quickly enough to keep simulcasts on schedule, but you'd think they'd have more time when CR goes back and streams an older show from a few years ago, or for disc releases months/years later. (Looking at you, Aniplex's Vividred Operation, Sentai's AKB0048 insert songs, and numerous old Viz DVDs.)
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Kadmos1



Joined: 08 May 2014
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 9:54 am Reply with quote
It'd be nice if there wasn't so many rights issues to go through when simulcasting because fans may feel like they are being cheated supporting the industry and not getting the product back they they want it. This includes subbing the OP/ED songs and it being a region-free, uncensored title.
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EyeOfPain



Joined: 14 May 2013
Posts: 312
PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 1:07 pm Reply with quote
Zalis116 wrote:
configspace wrote:
They use the same tools such as Aegisub, x264 and others. Internal container format for CR's webplayer, is similar to Matroska, for they too need soft subs for multiple language tracks and typesetting capabilities. In fact Google's WebM format is based on MKV.
If so, they must've forgotten about the Timing Post-Processor, since CR's subs are always full of timing flashes, scene bleeds, and similar errors that no self-respecting fansubber would let slide.


Flash (and DVD/BD) don't allow for as precise timing as the Matroska format. Besides, it's more important to leave subs on-screen long enough for people to read them, than worrying about removing them because of a scene change.
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minakichan





PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 5:14 pm Reply with quote
Ohoni wrote:

but this is the thing, producing the US version should have nothing to do with the Japanese air dates. Fansubbers need to worry about that since they need to rip the show off the TV, but the US version should be done and ready for broadcast at least a day early, and most of the work should be done days, or even weeks earlier than that. At most if the final video raws come in a bit late they might have to rush to time out the script that they've already finished, throw it into the encoding processes for final distribution, and send it off to get final approval.


Remember all those stories you hear from Japan about television anime episodes getting hand-delivered to broadcasters just hours before launch? It's hard to get your US simulcast done a day in advance when you don't even have the episode until just before (or after!) launch Wink

Even if you get the script translations in time, you still need to check it against the episode for ad-libs, time subs, QC the subs, send it back for approval (and since the time zones don't line up, your Japanese licensor might be asleep even if your team is working 24 hours-- domestic broadcast is the Japanese company's priority), have a couple rounds of revisions, encode, etc. Of course getting a script early is an advantage, but you'll always be at a disadvantage having to actually submit things to a licensor, and waiting for the times to match up. How much does that cancel out? Theorizing without information is fun, but only people working on the process can really know.

I think you're being rather optimistic about timing. But of course, it's impossible to know where snags come in if you haven't lived the life.
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Tempest
I Run this place.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 11:09 am Reply with quote
Ohoni wrote:
I can get why US distributors wouldn't get the finished episodes until right before air, but why couldn't they have the scripts weeks in advance?


Justin didn't mention this, so I'll chime in...

In most cases translators do get a script. At the start, they might get it "weeks" in advance, but later in production it will be much less in advance. Typically 4~10 days in advance.

They'll either get the original script, or the afureko script (after recording).

The afureko script is the most helpful. The final recording will differ from the original script as certain decisions will be made during the recording process. Lines will be changed by the director, or ad-libbed by the actor.

While the afureko script is more useful, it obviously can't be provided until after the recording session.

Regardless of which script is received, the translator always has to compare it to the final recording when they get it. Even the afureko script might have mistakes in it...

Once the translation is done, the whole thing has to be timed. This obviously can not be done until the final video is received. Then the subs need to be encoded.

Last but not least, the QC pass. Typically this doesn't take long.

Individual episodes rarely go through an approval process for simulcasts. The licensor and simulcaster both have the right to request changes from the translation team, but it's rare.
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Polycell



Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Posts: 4623
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 2:16 pm Reply with quote
Via_01 wrote:
One thing is having a registered trademark for a type of horse... but I think that's pretty different from doing the same to an animal in specific. Because "zorro" is not only used for red foxes, but for all foxes as well.

The world must be going into a pretty weird direction if suddenly a company can buy the rights for the word "fox". Oh wait...
You obviously had little understanding of trademark if you find this odd. The word quite literally refers to something that identifies you, your company or products, which can be just about anything. The key trick, as mentioned earlier, is that you only get enough protection to prevent other people from passing off their products as yours; if there's no reasonable chance of confusion, dozens upon dozens of people can use the exact same trademark. If you have to specify you're not referring to any particular trademark, that's not the law's concern.

Also, Fox was the (Anglicized)name of the studio's founder.
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samuelp
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Joined: 25 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 10:46 pm Reply with quote
Tempest wrote:

Justin didn't mention this, so I'll chime in...

In most cases translators do get a script. At the start, they might get it "weeks" in advance, but later in production it will be much less in advance. Typically 4~10 days in advance.

They'll either get the original script, or the afureko script (after recording).

The afureko script is the most helpful. The final recording will differ from the original script as certain decisions will be made during the recording process. Lines will be changed by the director, or ad-libbed by the actor.

While the afureko script is more useful, it obviously can't be provided until after the recording session.

Regardless of which script is received, the translator always has to compare it to the final recording when they get it. Even the afureko script might have mistakes in it...

Chris, I need to correct you on your terminology here:
What you can the afureko-script or "ADR" script are the scripts which are given to the voice actors to record off of. They do not include any ad-libs or corrections made during the recording session itself.
That script, the true final script is called the "kansei daihon" (complete script), and is a copy of one of the ADR scripts with corrections penciled in.

So ADR scripts you get early, sometimes months early (As an example I have ADR scripts for Danmachi through episode ~12 already). But the "kansei"(complete) script you do not usually get until right before broadcast, or even after broadcast often. That's because until recently the process of having someone go through and pencil in all the changes to the script that were made was usually thought of as a not-so-useful thing and so was pushed forward. It depends on productions: some studios get kansei scripts pretty early on (sunrise), while other productions I don't get them until a few days AFTER broadcast.

Another difference is that its usually only the kansei scripts which have the next episode preview scripts stapled into them.
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