Forum - View topicCross Ange Creative Producer Indicates Sales Were Strong Enough for More
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kotomikun
Posts: 1205 |
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Sounds to me like the show's main problem (besides overuse of raping) is misinterpreting "strong female character" to mean "superhumanly devil-may-care female character." That's a pretty common mistake, and would explain the controversy, because that sort of writing is superficially feminist--women becoming powerful and influential characters and all that--but often turns into a sort of victim-blaming, implying that if women simply become "strong" then sexism won't be a problem anymore. So you can easily end up with a story that seems feminist to some people and extremely misogynistic to others. Again, I haven't seen the show, so I'm just hypothesizing. |
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Cptn_Taylor
Posts: 925 |
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Oh man who could have thought that such an innocent show would incense the fandom.  My little contribution to this thread (since my views are already clearly expressed episode by episode in the review thread of CA) is this : thank God for Fukuda. Enough of moe girls doing moe things. Girls and Guns. That's where we're at. More CA is always a good thing. All hail to the giant DRAGONS and skimpy swimming/pilot suits. 
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niintysix
Posts: 6 |
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I'd rather not see another season but would watch a prequel or sequel movie
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minamikaze
Posts: 221 |
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Zac, sorry but you have misinterpreted what Ange said in that scene. Although it is understandable since she did say it in her typical condescending tone, (which she used with just about everyone), Ange was not looking down on Jill or mocking her because she had been able to resist Embryo while Jill had not. In the show, there were two scenes where the relationship between Jill and Embryo were depicted, one which showed them in the past, warmly embracing in bed, and another when Hilda overheard Jill, in the present, calling out for "Embryo-sama" in her sleep. Ostensibly, both those scenes could be interpreted as Jill being in love with Embryo and consenting to his advances. However, Ange having both witnessed and directly experienced how Embryo completely manipulated and controled his victims mentally, emotionally and physically, knew full well that any involvement with him could never be considered to be actually consensual. Which is why Ange did not say that Jill couldn't tell anyone that she had "fallen in love with Embryo", or "been seduced by Embryo", she correctly said that Jill had been raped by Embryo. Although Ange had reasons to throw that statement into Jill's face just to spite her, considering not only everything Jill did to her when she arrived at Arzenal, but that the last time they saw each other, Jill had threatened to drown Momoka and even strangled Ange in an attempt to force her to follow her plan to sacrifice everyone to get her revenge on Embryo, it was not Ange's motive in saying it. Ange said it partially to rile Jill, who had been sulking since losing her command, but more so to get the woman who was still calling out for "Embryo-sama" in her sleep, to wake up from the remaining delusions about her involvement with Embryo, and from the guilt that she felt for how that involvement had caused her to fail her comrades in the previous attempt at liberation. Jill was not to blame, she had been controlled by him (and therefore raped), even if she had been unable to realize it at the time because of his complete control. Jill's resulting self-consuming feelings of guilt, shame, anger and also rejection were what had fueled the desperation of her attempt at revenge. That was what she could not tell anyone, and that was also what she needed to reconcile to be able to fight effectively. Ange's mockery of Jill, was not for being raped by Embryo, it was because in that scene, their previous situations of commander and prisoner/soldier had been completely reversed. What warranted mockery was how Jill's insistence on the necessity of sacrificing everyone as the only way the revolution could succeed, actually caused it to fail, because starting with Ange, people rejected the idea that they were mere disposable tools to be used for her revenge. In contrast, Ange's plan as leader was predicated on working with everyone instead of sacrificing them, and even included trying to save Salia and Chris instead of killing them.
Also, sorry one more thing, but with as good a writer as you are, I'm sure this was a typo/autocorrect problem and you meant to type "jibe", not "jive". Sorry, to nitpick on a typo but that particular misuse irks me. |
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TarsTarkas
 Posts: 5825 Location: Virginia, United States |
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Rape in real life is a very serious problem, most of it is done by the very people you know. It is also a prevalent problem.
In the context of the show, and the environment the characters interact with, it could be said that the show didn't have enough actual rape in it or an acknowledgement that such things happen a lot. Though Zac's and Hope's comments are more about the actual depictations than the actual realistic number of rapes themselves. Any type of coercion, whether by magical ability, mental psy powers, chemical inducement, and/or by unexplained god-like powers is rape. Really no different than what Zeus used to do to mortal woman. |
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SilverTalon01
Posts: 2402 |
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I'm not good with matching forum names to reviewer names, but please tell me you're not one of the 5 or so who falsely claimed she was raped in episode 1 because the irony... Mew pudding really covered this for me. Also, that screen cap didn't load but it is of Ange's line to Jill right? There is absolutely nothing to show she was raped. Ange is mocking her, and rather than confirm that statement, Jill points this out. How would Ange even know? Embryo told her? Why? Also it was very clear Jill loved Embryo back then. The at least as likely (honestly significantly more likely, but I'll be generous and go 50/50) thing that happened was that he manipulated her into loving him through lies. That is exactly what happened to Salia. I mean sure it is possible that he raped her and she some how fell for the guy that raped her, but that seems like a pretty big stretch considering absolutely nothing backs that up. So your "patently untrue" like is itself "patently untrue." There is an equally likely interpretation that she was not raped, and as that was your only example, my statement that there was no proof any character was raped is still correct. In fact, here is a quote from the simulcast subs (sorry, no screen shot) said by Jill to Salia in ep 24: He feeds and cares for people so he can use them later. That's how he played me. I'd say that clearly points to manipulation not actual rape or torture mind washing. This easily trumps Ange's line because it comes from one of the two characters that truly know what happened to her. Sounds like exactly what happened to Salia which is fitting because Salia is essentially repeating Jills mistakes. Edit: Removing the last part as it was needlessly antagonistic.
There is no indication he used that on anyone but Ange who he never actually had sex with so that wasn't rape (sexual assault certainly, but the two are not the same). It is basically the same thing as the episode 1 crap. People who are looking for something to offend them are drawing the conclusion they want from something that isn't clear at all and stating it as a fact. The number that we actually know for a fact were raped (through force or coercion) is zero. |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18188 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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For sake of clarification, JesuOtaku is Hope Chapman's forum name. And I'll just leave it at that, since I think it's already pretty well-established that Hope and I have radically, largely incompatibly different interpretations of this series. |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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Guys, for clarification, "technically no one is actually raped!" is not at all the same thing as "this show has no rape in it". You have to write entire paragraphs explaining why this thing in the show that looks like rape and is clearly intended to invoke the threat of rape or strongly suggest someone was raped, isn't technically rape. That isn't "this show has no rape in it!".
I wasn't going to comment further but that needed to be said. A big part of the reason I really don't like talking about this show is because honestly the response you get if you try and talk at all about how you personally feel about the content in this show regarding women, y'all get very defensive and very aggressive very quickly. I don't want to be accused of throwing bombs and I have no interest in a discussion rooted in anger, but at the same time I feel like in a sense everyone who disagrees with the fanbase for this show gets yelled at until they're chased off. Maybe it's just too hot a topic and there are too many personal feelings involved for it to be a productive discussion between people who simply disagree about a TV show. I'm willing to accept that. |
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Souther
 Posts: 602 |
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Hate to carry on the argument (especially since the arguments haven't really changed much from since the start of the show concerning the sexual content), but @Mewpudding, it couldn't have been a surgery since the tail cords already come attached to the pilot suits and there weren't any tools about. Plus if they wanted to do surgery, they'd probably would have gotten Maggy to do it, since she's the chief surgeon in Arzenal. It was an "examination", as Jill said.
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SilverTalon01
Posts: 2402 |
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I really don't see the difference. If no one is shown to have been raped, the show has no rape in it. I don't mean shown as in on screen either, I mean actual evidence it happened to some one on screen or off. The entire paragraphs are necessary because people are jumping to conclusions and stating them as facts. Just because you make the assumption that a character was raped, doesn't mean a character was raped. The two main instances pointed to are episode 1 and Jill. I don't think episode 1 was clearly intended to invoke the threat of rape. Plenty of people thought it was a cavity search so that wasn't clear at all. Every single time we actually see Jill with Embryo she appears to be there of her own free will. There is no threat of rape shown there at all. The only suggestion of rape is from an obviously antagonistic statement from a character that we have absolutely no reason to believe has any real knowledge of those events which is refuted by statements made by the character in question. The only scene that really fits that last part is the one with Ange at the end, but that is not the one the people wanting to point out rape are using as an example. That also only happens at the very end when people were making that claim before that. I suppose that an interrupted rape a split second before it happens depending on your point of view could mean the show has rape in it because you can't interrupt something that wasn't there. Personally, I'd say if it was interrupted before it happened then it didn't actually happen, but arguing over that would just be semantics. So fine, if you are talking about the singular instance at the very end, I'd agree that "this show has rape in it" is one possible valid view.
It is very unclear in the anime, but that isn't true for the manga. That this is what happened was pointed out in the thread for the episode reviews. Last edited by SilverTalon01 on Fri May 01, 2015 2:46 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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mangamuscle
Posts: 2658 Location: Mexico |
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I wasn't going to comment further but attempted rape and rape are not the same, just like murder and attempted murder. What we have a lot in this show is torture, even if Embryo uses pleasure instead of pain, you can be killed or driven insane or just become scarred for life just the same with it. But it is not as if tortute is new in shounen series.
Very good at playing the victim, ain't we? Maybe, just maybe, when you enter any forum thinking high and mighty "this show is trash" and proceed to chastise the series under premises tinted by hate colored glasses, you are provoking an emotional response from the fanbase, it is not the fanbase which is overly emotional in the first place. |
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Souther
Posts: 602 |
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The discussion about rape's been going around in circles. IMO it's best just to agree to disagree before people get blown up again. And getting mad at the people who dislike the content in the show will only exacerbate things (coming from someone who enjoys Cross Ange).
EDIT: SilverTalon, the manga over at ComicWalker plays out the same way. Jill says the same things. Last edited by Souther on Fri May 01, 2015 3:24 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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nobahn
 Subscriber Posts: 5120 |
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^
Or get moderated, anyway. 
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SilverTalon01
Posts: 2402 |
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Pretty sure I saw a scan, but it has been a while, and I could be remembering the source wrong. Regardless just google 'cross ange equipment forcibly implanted into her' and you'll get a bunch of stuff. Could probably play with the wording and get more, but anyway it isn't something made up. |
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ichii_1
 Posts: 151 |
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Lol at sunrise being busy
They have like 13 studios lol
Accel world and horizon not getting sequels are because they don't want them to. |
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