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NEWS: Nova Scotia Man Sentenced to 90 Days for Child Porn, Including 'Anime'


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Sunny milk



Joined: 22 Jan 2014
Posts: 695
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2015 11:16 am Reply with quote
Foxaika wrote:
I won't argue it's perfect, but realistically, if it helps lessen abuse, then I can't say it's a bad thing.


If you think it lessens abuse to take away alternatives, you are on a wrong track of thought.
Just to put it out, sexual frustration is the most dangerous factor when it comes to actually acting upon urges.
And acting upon them is something that is both the worst thing to happen, and should be punished harsh, instead of finding alternatives.
This man did the latter from what we know.
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Foxaika



Joined: 28 Apr 2015
Posts: 365
Location: Columbus, Ohio
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2015 11:26 am Reply with quote
Sunny milk wrote:
Foxaika wrote:
I won't argue it's perfect, but realistically, if it helps lessen abuse, then I can't say it's a bad thing.


If you think it lessens abuse to take away alternatives, you are on a wrong track of thought.
Just to put it out, sexual frustration is the most dangerous factor when it comes to actually acting upon urges.
And acting upon them is something that is both the worst thing to happen, and should be punished harsh, instead of finding alternatives.
This man did the latter from what we know.


How is actual child pornography an alternative? People are hurt to make it. Alternatives would be drawings, not pictures of children actually being abused. Not sure about you, but I see a difference between drawn pictures and photographs. If someone is still being harmed to make it, it isn't an alternative.
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NGK



Joined: 10 Mar 2010
Posts: 236
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2015 11:35 am Reply with quote
Blanchimont wrote:
Quote:
..."most of the 20 images were anime, although a few appear to be of real girls between five and 13 years old."

Aand immediately lost any sympathy from me.


What if they're just models or jr idols, which is completely legal in Japan?
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NGK



Joined: 10 Mar 2010
Posts: 236
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2015 11:51 am Reply with quote
pokenar wrote:
Completely reasonable sentence, given that real children were involved.


Man, that's kinda light... lighter than drug possession laws in states like Nevada.

but then again, drug procession laws is too heavy handed in all 49 states.
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Sunny milk



Joined: 22 Jan 2014
Posts: 695
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2015 11:52 am Reply with quote
Foxaika wrote:

How is actual child pornography an alternative? People are hurt to make it. Alternatives would be drawings, not pictures of children actually being abused. Not sure about you, but I see a difference between drawn pictures and photographs. If someone is still being harmed to make it, it isn't an alternative.


He didn't make it. He didn't pay for it. Just happened upon it.
And we don't know the extent of what kind of pictures were they.
Like I said, harsh efforts should be applied to people who actually contribute towards making and distributing these pictures, not those who just have a few of them.
Of course I don't mean something like a huge collection of hardcore/hurtcore stuff, that is pretty much inexcusable, but it doesn't appear to be the case here.
And anyhow, it is still an alternative compared to acting on the urges himself.
And please don't even imply I think they are the same as drawings, since drawings of them is something important to me, yet I have no interest in 3D alternatives.
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Blanchimont



Joined: 25 Feb 2012
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Location: Finland
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2015 12:36 pm Reply with quote
NGK wrote:
What if they're just models or jr idols, which is completely legal in Japan?

Freedom of speech in all its honor, but I'm having really hard time finding any sympathy for the Junior Idol industry in Japan... It's legal in Japan, fine, I accept that. Doesn't mean I have to like it.
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Foxaika



Joined: 28 Apr 2015
Posts: 365
Location: Columbus, Ohio
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2015 12:38 pm Reply with quote
Sunny milk wrote:

He didn't make it. He didn't pay for it. Just happened upon it.
And we don't know the extent of what kind of pictures were they.
Like I said, harsh efforts should be applied to people who actually contribute towards making and distributing these pictures, not those who just have a few of them.
Of course I don't mean something like a huge collection of hardcore/hurtcore stuff, that is pretty much inexcusable, but it doesn't appear to be the case here.
And anyhow, it is still an alternative compared to acting on the urges himself.
And please don't even imply I think they are the same as drawings, since drawings of them is something important to me, yet I have no interest in 3D alternatives.


I was speaking in general, not specifically with this case. I've already stated what I think in that regard, and I don't think it differs much at all from your thoughts.

My main point here is that even if you aren't the creator of the real content, you are actively seeking it for pleasure and basically encouraging its creation. I don't think it's wrong then to say you're complicit to some degree. I don't care what people look at really(I'd be a bit of a hypocrite if I didn't think that), so long as making it doesn't harm anyone. If it does, then that's when I think there's an issue. I agree that the actual creators should be the focus, but I don't think that completely exonerates the person who is going out of their way to view this material.

To be clear, I am not referring to this case in particular. I am speaking in general. This case is a bit odd because we don't have all the information, and it doesn't seem quite like he is a pedophile. That makes it a bit tough to discuss.
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Sunny milk



Joined: 22 Jan 2014
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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2015 12:48 pm Reply with quote
And I think that your generalization is biased.
That is hardly contributing to anything. If you DO actually pay for it, or help distributing now that's a different story.
There should be a limit what consists of encouraging it and what isn't.
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Foxaika



Joined: 28 Apr 2015
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Location: Columbus, Ohio
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2015 1:27 pm Reply with quote
Sunny milk wrote:
And I think that your generalization is biased.
That is hardly contributing to anything. If you DO actually pay for it, or help distributing now that's a different story.
There should be a limit what consists of encouraging it and what isn't.


I don't know what you mean by biased here, and I also don't think you quite understood what I meant by speaking "in general". To clarify, I mean I was speaking outside the context of this specific incident.

Let's say there should be a limit. I wouldn't say that limit is when someone is actively seeking out such material(and I won't say finding it in volume is easy), even if they are not paying for it or directly assisting in its creation.
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Sunny milk



Joined: 22 Jan 2014
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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2015 1:37 pm Reply with quote
Alright, I see both our brains shut down when we read the other one's argument. No more words needed between us. Let's just agree to disagree.

So in short we can say that you think this assists its creation, and I think it doesn't.
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Foxaika



Joined: 28 Apr 2015
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Location: Columbus, Ohio
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2015 1:59 pm Reply with quote
Sunny milk wrote:
Alright, I see both our brains shut down when we read the other one's argument. No more words needed between us. Let's just agree to disagree.

So in short we can say that you think this assists its creation, and I think it doesn't.


I don't think that quite sums up what I am saying, but yeah, let's just agree to disagree.
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NGK



Joined: 10 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2015 2:53 pm Reply with quote
Sunny milk wrote:
Like I said, harsh efforts should be applied to people who actually contribute towards making and distributing these pictures, not those who just have a few of them.


Indeed, let's encourage LEAs to go after juveniles who do raunchy "selfies" or "twerk" (photo or video or combination) on instagram, vine, younow, iphone Insta messaging and youtube - war on drugs style Laughing

On a serious note, i think CP is dead.
..... unless you count Japanese jr idols and the rest are girls uploading videos of themselves dancing to "twerk" music, as cp Laughing
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NGK



Joined: 10 Mar 2010
Posts: 236
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2015 3:01 pm Reply with quote
Blanchimont wrote:
NGK wrote:
What if they're just models or jr idols, which is completely legal in Japan?

Freedom of speech in all its honor, but I'm having really hard time finding any sympathy for the Junior Idol industry in Japan... It's legal in Japan, fine, I accept that. Doesn't mean I have to like it.


you don't have to like it,

You just have to acknowledge the fact that it's part of Akibahara otaku culture. In Japan loli/shota world, 2D and 3D do go together.
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Polycell



Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Posts: 4623
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2015 8:32 pm Reply with quote
NGK wrote:
Indeed, let's encourage LEAs to go after juveniles who do raunchy "selfies" or "twerk" (photo or video or combination) on instagram, vine, younow, iphone Insta messaging and youtube - war on drugs style Laughing
You mean like they already do on occasion?
Quote:
On a serious note, i think CP is dead.
..... unless you count Japanese jr idols and the rest are girls uploading videos of themselves dancing to "twerk" music, as cp Laughing
Actual commercial production's dead; everything these days is just people uploading their own exploit(ation)s. Wikileaks has an anonymous letter from someone who worked in the commercial production side of things, if you're interested. Granted, softcore's hardly the same thing, but they're both banned just the same.
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yell0



Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Posts: 24
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 5:33 am Reply with quote
Foxaika wrote:
yell0 wrote:


Foxaika wrote:

Edit: I would like to add that if the materials are being sought as evidence, for example, then I suppose in that case it isn't quite the same as if they are being sought for pleasure.


Isn't that also the very definition of thought crime? You're differentiating between the same exact action only on what is going on inside the person's head as they do so.


Don't think so. In one case, the person is trying to stop abuse(finding evidence of abuse, for example). In the other, the person is essentially encouraging it. I was just giving an example of why searching for something like that would be done for a reason other than simply deriving pleasure from it.


How are they encouraging it by searching for it?

Foxaika wrote:

Thought crime would be if someone was being punished for having the thoughts and not acting on them. Downloading child pornography(actual pictures, not artwork) for pleasure is acting on it simply because it shows a demand for such material. If there was actually no demand, none would be made, and no children would be abused to make it. That's the idea anyway. I won't argue it's perfect, but realistically, if it helps lessen abuse, then I can't say it's a bad thing.


I see you've pretty much ignored my previous posts where I've dismantled the argument that people downloading is somehow fueling more to be made. In fact the distribution of such material assures that those who make it can't as easily make a profit because it would all just be "pirated" because you can't copyright it obviously.

Any money exchanged/made would almost entirely be going to sites that hosted the material and not the creators because there would be no way for the creators to keep control of the material and they would have no monetary incentive to create it.

I don't see how this is any different than archive.org hosting ISIS propaganda videos and then accepting donations or charging a fee for access to their archive of evidence.

Plus the availability of stuff already produced would mean a higher supply, and thus would make it less valuable anyway. Meaning there is less incentive to create it in the first place.

You're making up some fantasy where somehow accessing material is creating more demand when the demand is pretty much static, all the while completely ignoring the supply side of the equation.

If you're making a distinction between someone downloading the material to investigate it verses downloading it to pleasure themselves then you are indeed advocating what is the very definition of thought crime. As the only difference is the reason in their mind for searching such material out. It's not harming children either way. Not unless somehow viewing the material warps time and space and re-molests the poor children.

What they're doing is not "acting out" on anything, they're merely sating their urges in a way that's not harming a child.

Edit: I've already said this in previous posts, but just to clarify I do think it should be illegal to pay someone who is a producer or involved in the rape a child (or an adult for that matter). As it would be akin to a contract killing, just instead a contract rape. It's just that possession or even distribution does not necessarily imply such a connection.
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