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NEWS: Nova Scotia Man Sentenced to 90 Days for Child Porn, Including 'Anime'


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Ambimunch



Joined: 30 Aug 2012
Posts: 2012
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 5:04 pm Reply with quote
Tempest wrote:
14 is the age on consent (with restrictions) in Canada


Actually that's incorrect, it is 16 in Canada.
http://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/rp-pr/other-autre/clp/faq.html

-----

Considering there were real photos of kids, then yeah, he got himself into a pickle. Though I disagree when people get into legal trouble for drawn characters whose age is ambiguous.
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Tempest
ANN Publisher & CEO


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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 11:16 pm Reply with quote
Sunny milk wrote:
It's no surprise, but I didn't talk about what a lot of people would say, but whether it's natural or not, and it is.


That's your opinion. A lot of people would disagree with you.
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Tempest
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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 11:20 pm Reply with quote
Ambimunch wrote:
Actually that's incorrect, it is 16 in Canada.
http://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/rp-pr/other-autre/clp/faq.html
.


You should have read the rest of the page you linked to.

Age of Consent to Sexual Activity wrote:
a 14 or 15 year old can consent to sexual activity with a partner as long as the partner is less than five years older and there is no relationship of trust, authority or dependency or any other exploitation of the young person.


The above is what I was referring to when I said "14 with restrictions."

Of course, it turns out that I was wrong. The actual minimum cut-off is 12...

Quote:
There is also a "close-in-age" exception for 12 and 13 year olds: a 12 or 13 year old can consent to sexual activity with another young person who is less than two years older and with whom there is no relationship of trust, authority or dependency or other exploitation of the young person.


Last edited by Tempest on Thu May 07, 2015 11:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Tempest
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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 11:37 pm Reply with quote
yell0 wrote:

Wow, I'm really sorry that your country throws actual living, feeling, human individuals in prison to protect non-existent children.


While VCP is illegal in Canada, no one has ever been imprisoned exclusively for VCP.

The Canadian Case previously referred to was about Benjamin Levin, a former Deputy Minister in the Ministry of Education of Ontario (not Attorney General). His case is not exclusively about VCP (virtual child porn), it is also about "counselling a sexual assault." He encouraged an under-cover police office to secually assault her 8-year-old daughter. Looks like he will be sentenced to two-years. Way more than just VCP.

Canada did charge Ryan Matheson with attempting to import child porn into Canada. The material in question was entirely virtual. However all criminal charges were eventually dropped (he plead guilty to a non-criminal offense, and did not have to serve any prison time or even face trial).

VCP is currently illegal in the USA as well, and Christopher Handley was sentenced to 6-months in prison for possession of VCP.

In both the Handley and Matheson cases, the images were manga. Both stories were extensively covered on ANN. In the case of Handley we published numerous op/ed in support of his defense.

So... the country that throws actual living, feeling, human individuals in prison to protect non-existent children is the USA.
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minamikaze



Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Posts: 71
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2015 12:23 am Reply with quote
Tempest wrote:

VCP is currently illegal in the USA as well, and Christopher Handley was sentenced to 6-months in prison for possession of VCP.

In both the Handley and Matheson cases, the images were manga. Both stories were extensively covered on ANN. In the case of Handley we published numerous op/ed in support of his defense.

So... the country that throws actual living, feeling, human individuals in prison to protect non-existent children is the USA.


I'm sure plenty of people also remember that Handley wasn't the only one:

Missouri Man Sentenced to 3 Years for 'Obscene' Comic Possession

Missouri Man Receives Three Years In Prison For Comics
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Ambimunch



Joined: 30 Aug 2012
Posts: 2012
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2015 8:54 am Reply with quote
Tempest wrote:


You should have read the rest of the page you linked to.

Age of Consent to Sexual Activity wrote:
a 14 or 15 year old can consent to sexual activity with a partner as long as the partner is less than five years older and there is no relationship of trust, authority or dependency or any other exploitation of the young person.


The above is what I was referring to when I said "14 with restrictions."

Of course, it turns out that I was wrong. The actual minimum cut-off is 12...

Quote:
There is also a "close-in-age" exception for 12 and 13 year olds: a 12 or 13 year old can consent to sexual activity with another young person who is less than two years older and with whom there is no relationship of trust, authority or dependency or other exploitation of the young person.


I did read it..

Of course these ages are pretty much for minors having sex with each other, the 16 is the universal age here if we're talking about a grown up involved. Though I'm not sure these laws would be the ones applied when there are pictures involved and I'm too lazy to open my book to read about it now.
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yell0



Joined: 12 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2015 9:50 am Reply with quote
Tempest wrote:

VCP is currently illegal in the USA as well, and Christopher Handley was sentenced to 6-months in prison for possession of VCP.


Incorrect. VCP is perfectly legal.

Only "obscene" VCP is illegal.

The legality of pornography in general is complicated in the US. These people getting prison time for VCP only are falling for the terrible tactics the DoJ will use to try to get people to plead guilty.

JAST USA for example releases VNs with hardcore VCP in the US and are based in the US and no one has been brought to trial as a result, but these would be 100% illegal without a doubt in Canada.

"Virtual" pornography, even including characters which are clearly and supposed to be underage is not illegal, and any such laws have been deemed null and void by the Supreme Court of the United States.

However, like any other pornography, it is subject to US "obscenity" law.

There are also entities such as the CBLDF that will offer legal defense for people charged with obscenity over virtual material.

Another thing to consider is the Supreme Court has very clearly stated that one scene or a few scenes in a larger work does not make the work as a whole obscene. This means in practice that only stuff that is clearly made to be only pornographic with no other substance is vulnerable to such prosecution, and even then due to the vagueness of the "miller test" one can still argue artistic merit among other defenses.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller_test
Quote:

In practice, pornography showing genitalia and sexual acts is not ipso facto obscene according to the Miller test. For instance, in 2000 a jury in Provo, Utah, took only a few minutes to clear Larry Peterman, owner of a Movie Buffs video store, in Utah County, Utah, a region which had often boasted of being one of the most conservative areas in the United States. Researchers had shown that guests at the local Marriott Hotel were disproportionately large consumers of pay-per-view pornographic material, accessing far more material than the store was distributing.[6]


Now this does not mean that convictions have not happened. For example: the Christopher Handley case. He had bad legal representation and pleaded guilty. It was hardcore lolicon manga. When he was initially charged the prosecutor and judge for his case seemed ignorant of the fact the main part of the law they were prosecuting him under was struck down as invalid by SCOTUS. Those types often can't admit when they're wrong and instead stuck to their guns and pushed to punish the poor guy on purely "obscenity" grounds.

Although, since the CBLDF seems to have a huge hard-on for getting obscenity law made totally void for virtual material. They tend to be able to get such charges dropped for people who call them usually before it is ever brought to trial or makes any news.

SCOTUS struck down the part of the law which doesn't have the "obscenity" qualifier. This precedent carried over to the "PROTECT Act" as well. (See bolded section below)

Quote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashcroft_v._Free_Speech_Coalition#Majority_opinion

The Court concluded that the "CPPA prohibits speech despite its serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value." In particular, it prohibits the visual depiction of teenagers engaged in sexual activity, a "fact of modern society and has been a theme in art and literature throughout the ages." Such depictions include performances of Romeo and Juliet, by William Shakespeare; the 1996 film William Shakespeare's Romeo + Juliet, directed by Baz Luhrmann; and the Academy Award winning movies Traffic and American Beauty. "If these films, or hundreds of others of lesser note that explore those subjects, contain a single graphic depiction of sexual activity within the statutory definition, the possessor of the film would be subject to severe punishment without inquiry into the work's redeeming value. This is inconsistent with an essential First Amendment rule: The artistic merit of a work does not depend on the presence of a single explicit scene.

Thus, the CPPA prohibited speech for a different reason than anti-child pornography laws. Laws prohibiting the distribution and possession of child pornography ban speech because of the manner in which it is produced, regardless of its serious literary or artistic value. But speech prohibited by the CPPA "records no crime and creates no victims by its production." Child pornography is not necessarily without value, but it is illegal because of the harm that making and distributing it necessarily inflicts upon children. Ferber expressly allowed virtual child pornography as an alternative that could preserve whatever literary value child pornography might arguably have while at the same time mitigating the harm caused by making it. The CPPA would eliminate this distinction and punish people for engaging in what had heretofore been a legal alternative.


In Canada on the other hand it is totally illegal, even just a mere nude drawing could get you jail/prison time and banishment from the internet. No "obscenity" qualifier needed.

There's also cases that never make media attention. There have certainly been cases in Canada where people have lost their access to the internet entirely, have served jail time, and been put on probation.

In the US, if you're unlucky and live in and conservative area of the US there is a very small risk you could fall victim to an obscenity prosecution, but the work would have to be 100% hardcore porn, not say a VN with some scenes in it. It also doesn't help if you get bad legal representation.

There are plenty of sites in the US that host hardcore VCP as well and nothing happens to them.

I know dozens of people who regularly import doujins with such content into the US and nothing happens to them, even once when one was opened by customs.

They get sold at conventions too.
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NegativeGate



Joined: 06 Nov 2011
Posts: 48
Location: Maryland
PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2015 12:45 am Reply with quote
My 2 cents on the supply/demand thing.

Searching, buying, and selling does not encourage creation.

The reason being that most of the time the people creating it are not doing it for money. They'll continue doing it weather people watch, buy and sell it or not
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Tempest
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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2015 4:01 pm Reply with quote
yell0 wrote:

Incorrect. VCP is perfectly legal.

Only "obscene" VCP is illegal.


You may in fact be right. I need to double check this, as I can't remember the nuances anymore.

Either way, the US obscenity laws are pretty messed up. At least in Canada it's clear what is legal and what isn't. The Miller test is anything but clear.

As it stands, both countries have bad laws, both countries have tried to imprison people for the possession of VCP.

-t
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