Forum - View topicINTEREST: Director Hideaki Anno Laments Over Anime's 'Decline'
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Moroboshi-san
 Posts: 174 |
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Great point. Let's say I would be great fan of romantic melodrama so I watch all live-action-dorama there is on TV and read all josei-manga too. So of course I would watch and buy anime adaptations as well, or what? Unfortunately the answer is no in Japan today. Almost incomprehensibly anime fails to make this completely obvious and easily achievable step. All josei-anime adaptations sell like scheiße (except Hachimitsu to Clover) even though there certainly is no lack of audience in general for entertainment of this kind. And why is that? Big part in my mind is that anime has the same stigma as p*rn: only creeps watch it. |
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MarshalBanana
 Posts: 5317 |
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What a load of rubbish, studios like MAPPA, Bones, Madhouse, Ufotable, Studio 4°C and others, put out some really good stuff, but no lets just ignore all that and only pay attention to only one corner of the market. The industry may not be in the peak condition it was in the 80s or early 00s, but neither is at as bad as it was in the early 90s and late 00s. I have not seen a comment that generalise this much or mean spirited in awhile. Such vile contempt, for what exactly? Do they not make enough or your favourite Anime so you decide to villainize and slander those who support the industry. Your just another person making another stupid number and then posting it like it's a fact, 98% based on what? Oh wait nothing you just came up with it because you wanted to say all, and that was the closet you could get. It's ironic that you side with the hardcore Otaku who created the boob bounce and made an Anime filled with Anime stereotypes. |
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Cptn_Taylor
Posts: 925 |
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Why is Anime not like Manga in Japan ?
Two answers : - first a social component. Reading manga is viewed as an acceptable social norm for any Japanese, wether he is a kid, a teen, an adult or an old man. Not so for Anime, that is perceived as a product for kids (in Japan !!!! mind you) and if you're a grown up that's into Anime you're looked badly upon. That's one reason why Anime is a niche. - second : sheer variety in themes. Manga is like litterature. You have thousands of genres, themes, art styles etc... Manga caters to an incredible diverse audience that Anime will never ever do. Manga is the exact opposite of Anime. Manga is not niche, Anime is. Manga explores themes that appeal to kids, teens, grownups etc... Anime doesn't. Manga is not constrained within the Otaku demographic. Anime is. Manga is mostly not derivative, Anime is. For all these reasons, Manga has a creative dynamism that's not present in Anime. But it all boils down to this : Manga was able to grow, Anime tried and failed. By grow I don't mean grow in terms of economics, I mean grow as in an Industry that has general appeal. Think of it like this : Pixar was able to elevate animation films from kid material to something more deep that adults can also appreciate. Japan several decades ago tried to do this and mostly failed. This is why Anime even in this day and age is looked upon as something for kids. It cannot escape the prison it has itself created. And when it goes beyond it simply imprisons itself in a niche subculture. |
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Via_01
 Posts: 551 |
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That's not necessarily correct. A few years ago, while I was still learning japanese, I asked my teacher (a japanese middle aged woman) why people didn't normally watch more anime in Japan. Her personal answer was, surprisingly, not that she considered it sexualized or anything, but rather that she thought of it as a medium mostly aimed at kids. She could only mention Ghibli movies as animated stuff she had watched, and commented that people usually didn't show much interest in anything else. And that made some sense to me. I mean, the average japanese citizen's exposure to anime won't be the late night shows, but the kids' shows that air on prime time, and maybe some of the shonen titles like One Piece and Naruto. And when it comes to manga, well, it's actually easy: manga culture is nowhere near as niche or obsessive as anime culture. Because manga is an everyday thing: you can acquire manga magazines everywhere, volumes are usually sold alongside actual books on bookstores, and you can go around sharing it on school, or the bus, or even the office. A japanese person may like a certain josei manga, but that doesn't mean he or she will break their daily routine by staying up past midnight to watch 20 minutes of the animated version, or even go get those super expensive blu-rays, for the sake of that series. No, the average manga reader is probably ok with owning a few volumes, or just reading the thing on the magazine it's serialized for less than 1000 yen. Because manga and anime are actually very, very different experiences. Here in the west they go hand in hand, because for us, they are part of the same niche culture, and we usually get to know about a manga thanks to an anime adaptation. But it's different in Japan. Manga is way too commonplace... and anime isn't. I hope you get what I'm trying to say. (p.s. I feel like I'm posting way too much in this thread, but meh, who cares) |
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H. Guderian
Posts: 1255 |
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I can say my teacher is an ex-pat since 1994. Every summer she goes back to Japan and told me when she saw The Wind Rises in theaters. She got me a book on Space Battleship Yamato for my birthday one year. But overall if anime ever comes up she might recall seeing a few episodes of Lum. Heck, she knows Gundam by name. Not a young person either, married with children. She says most others just don't encounter anime. Think about how busy and overworked the animators are, then remember that is Japan in general. People who aren't already into anime simply don't have the time for it. (Nor for dating and raising kids, birthrate figures suggest). I concur with your point of manga being Everyday. Even here in the US, none of my coworkers will watch anythign animated. But I will still see the "Newspaper Funny Page" open on the table of the break room. For the youngin's, those are the newspaper comics. They don't exactly have a massive variety in there either. My guess is print comics are so much easier to digest so that people have become aware they aren't inherently hostile to their adulthood. Miyazaki movies are movies, so if you can stomach one you can at least comfort yourself knowing Miyazaki movies are fun-for-all-ages like those 3D CG movies from Pixar. I myself fell out of the K-Pop scene once I lost my method to sample artists reliably. Even a 1-cour anime requires several hours to complete. And you'll need to digest quite a few of those before most assume the medium has potential. What're likely needed are non-Ghibli movies that have the marketing push in hopes that people could feel animation in general to be worthy of their limited eyeball time. |
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Selipse
Posts: 216 |
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You're delusional if you think that's true. First of all, Pixar's the only that gets that kind of recognition, not animation in general. Second, even if Pixar's productions are viewed as "something that adults can also enjoy", they're just that. Some thing that adults can also enjoy. Even if they're enjoyed, they're still viewed in a condescending way in that, at the end of the day, they're still just stuff for kids. And, while I do love them, western animation productions are certainly still mostly just aimed at kids and families, so there's no helping that way of thinking. What baffles me is how that mentality is also present in Japan. There have always existed, still exist, and hopefully will continue exist productions that show how wrong the "animation is for kids" mindset is coming out of there. But the mainstream still won't see that. Sure, anime may not be as varied as manga, but that's only because it hasn't been allowed to grow. I blame all of this on the midnight airing model and the horrible home video releases. Though the busy life in Japan and the ease of consuming manga are probably the biggest reasons. JoJo's Bizarre Adventure's DVR data has been suggesting that airing that at midnight might've been a mistake. I'm hoping they do Diamond is Unbreakable for an afternoon slot (really, I just hope they actually make it). Maybe if the Legend of the Galactic Heroes remake is released on a primetime slot (if it happens at all), it could have some impact. We just need anime moving out of the midnight slots and finding a better alternative than the pricey BDs. Streaming's really the way to go. |
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Ryo Hazuki
Posts: 363 Location: Finland |
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I don't quite follow this. First of all Pixar movies are made for kids/family, just like Disney movies. Disney has had a sizeable adult following long before Pixar. Ghibli movies as a whole have broad appeal. By American standards Isao Takahata's Only Yesterday is an unmarketable arthouse film, whereas in Japan it was the highest grossing film of 1991. There have been far more Japanese animated movies aimed at adults than American ones, not even including porn. Not all of them are as good or as profitable as Ghibli movies, just like not every 70s movie made as much money as Jaws or Star Wars. That doesn't make them worthless. |
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Parse Error
 Posts: 592 |
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It wasn't a mistake, the standards for what kind of content can air during normal hours are just much more stringent than they used to be. If there's any truly major problem the industry is facing, that's the real one in a nutshell. Anything that's too mature or disturbing gets cut off from the normal business model and has to go straight to what's essentially infomercial slots instead. |
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Jonny Mendes
 Posts: 997 Location: Europe |
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If this perception are not going to change and mainstream shows are going out of TV then a solution must be found to keep mainstream no-otaku shows alive (im a big fan of battle/harem romance ecchi anime but i also love to watch mainstream shows). One solution maybe what Hoppy800 said: mobile anime streaming services. Streaming is important, but have to be linked with more to be attractive for producers. If producers make money selling DVD's/BD's, manga and merchandizing, they will make more of this anime. The internet population have to be reached for this to work. Anime producers have to make anime know to more internet fans. Forget about daytime TV, thats declining and put their bets in internet. If anime is a niche in Japan, go for the world of niches, internet, and grow-up that niche to a sustainable size, so we can have seinen, fantasy, battle harem, ecchi, fan-service, yuri, shounen, adventure, action, drama, sports, slice-of-live, romance, shoujo, magical girl, jousei, BL, and all the kinds of anime possible in the internet for years, decades and even centuries (if still are internet in a few centuries). |
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UberAnimeFan
Posts: 28 |
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Honestly, I kind of agree with this guy (although I do feel that he exaggerated a bit with his timeframe lol). I mean, is it just me or, every season, but those animes that I get REALLY EXCITED to watch and with which I eagerly anticipate every episode every season...there's less and less every season isn't there? I can't be the only one that has noticed that. I honestly think it's due in part to the fact that the series that are being selected to be animated simply aren't the best possible series to be animated. Like I'm a fan of Highschool DxD too, but REALLY!? WE'RE ON THE THIRD SEASON AND IT ALREADY GOT OLD HALFWAY THROUGH THE SECOND SEASON AND WE ALL KNOW THIS. Like its one thing when series that simply never get old like Gintama continue to get animated forever (because Gintama is glorious and anybody who disagrees can go drown themselves lol), but Highschool DxD is first and foremost an ecchi series where the plot CLEARLY plays second fiddle to ecchi and therefore suffers significantly. Same with those series that get animated but then have the production companies COMPLETELY CHANGE THE ENTIRE STORY! Like, isn't the reason you selected the series to be animated because the story was so damn popular? SO WHY THE fudge CHANGE IT AND MAKE IT TERRIBLE (no, really, this is like one of my biggest pet peeves in anime)!? How about instead of trying to make gold out of rusted iron (OR TURNING (possible) GOLD INTO [expletive] PLASTIC) we instead try to get newer, better series rather than trying to continue series that just get old really fast. And really, there are SOOOOOOOOO MANY mangas that simply should get animated but never do or they just take FOREVER to finally get greenlit. All they do anymore is go "which series has the most hype right now" and animate those rather than ask themselves "which series would make the best possible anime?" and actually trying to find those series. I mean, I feel like there are less and less series that have the potential to eventually become classics in the future. Like how are we gonna get an entirely new generation into anime if the only things getting animated anymore are garbage.
Although, while I say all this, there are currently quite a few animes that I'm REALLY, REALLY, REALLY looking forward to right now lol. |
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Kadmos1
 Posts: 13555 Location: In Phoenix but has an 85308 ZIP |
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Well, one of the obvious factors is to have to uncensored, region-free simulcasts and I'm sure that many Japanese figures might be aware of this but those damned licensed excuses.
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mangamuscle
Posts: 2658 Location: Mexico |
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You are not alone and sadly your condition has no known cure, every season the number of show your see and the number of show your drop will continue to increase until you lose total interest in anything new. In terminal cases people will get rid of any collection they had buyed and negate ever liking this stuff. |
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Guilhem
 Posts: 181 |
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So, basically, the guy says that time flies by and things change: isn't this stating the obvious to begin with?
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residentgrigo
 Posts: 2421 Location: Germany |
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You all fell down an internet rabbit hole over the last few pages
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So about enurtsol´s point if the last crash was noticeable overseas. 100% yes as anime could be found in regular shops and on tv but that went downfall fast after and due to the fall as it looked like the next big thing but my superheroes have taken that spot. A lot of factors could be blamed as oversaturation or the dawn of instant piracy and studios really need to work on digital strategies. That goes double for all the publishing houses. Even my job is changing. I biggest content hole isn´t content for kidZ as the market is flooded with such but a lack of animation for women. Josei anime (or seinen that looked like it as Emma) existed to a degree but finding some now is hard. A lot shows that look shoujo are also aimed @ at adult men which never fails to amuse me. Not that such series could move the needle that much but choice is good. Long form adaptations of material that isn´t shonen are now a rare breed too (how did Space Bros last that long?). I wish you luck LOGH and let´s see in which form Ghibli will return as an industry that allowed it to run into troubles can´t be a healthy one. I lastly wonder if aging otaku spend as much money on discs and figures and... as they used to as not enough new ones are being born. A change is on the horizon so let´s see how pailful the process will be and i am way less cynical about modern anime as i was a few years ago. |
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Chaos Wings
 Posts: 277 Location: Your guess is as good as mine?! |
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Cue overdramatic statement.
It seems almost obligatory nowadays that people reach a certain point in their lives where they feel it's necessary to don a pair of rose tinted shades and tell everyone how it was better back in the day. Times change and so do the way things work, he's got to ride the train just like everybody else or get off at the nearest station. After being in the industry for so long maybe it's Anno himself who's lost the 'spark'. He's seems to have developed the inevitable been there done that attitude and now become jaded. If you've been involved in anything for an extended amount of time of course it's going to feel stale. But to the younger generation who are just getting into anime a lot of content will be new and fresh from their perspective. Just because anime might seem like it's in 'decline' doesn't mean it's permanent or irreversible. Markets expand and contract all the time, you adapt to the current climate or you go out of business it's as simple as that. Not everything can be an epic 10 out of 10 ground-breaking masterpiece. You can't blame the industry for leaning on a crutch that actually helps it to survive. Sometimes you've got to make five 'crappy' series in the hopes that you can accumulate enough faith and resources to put into one really good show. The whole doom/gloom state of the industry debate has been going on for years and not much has changed. The idea that the current system could collapse on itself in the next 5 years is laughable at best. |
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